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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 1/19/2002 5:23:18 PM EDT
I have the opportunity to buy an MP-5 but it's not transferable. It's not stolen either. It's a semi-automatic. I have no idea how it became non-transferable, I take it the paperwork got lost or was never started. Anyway, is it possible to make the gun transferable (make it legit)? If so, at what cost? Would it be stupid to buy the gun? I imagine it would be like a major federal offense right?

Thanks for your input.
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 8:32:43 PM EDT
A couple of things to keep in mind: 10/100,000. As in if it is an ILLEGAL, NON-REGISTERED machine gun, you get 10 years in a Federal Pen and a $100,000 fine.

Now: Once a Machine Gun always a machine gun. If I take a registered Receiver M-16 and convert it to semi-automatic only, it is STILL an M-16 in the eyes of the ATF and has to go through all the transfer paperwork, transfer tax, etc.

There is no-such thing as a Semi-Auto MP-5. The Civilian legal versions from HK have 16" barrels and are called the HK 94 and the SP-89. The SP-89 is a pistol version (in full auto trim, it is called the MP-5K).

If the gun has: less than a 16" barrel, a "push-pin" lower (takes full auto lowers direct from HK with no modifications), a folding stock on an SP-89, it is illegal, unless it is a registered Machine Gun or Short Barreled rifle.

If a Machine gun is not "papered", it CANNOT be reigstered or made transferable.

The only "Semi-Auto" MP-5's are FBI guns--they are machine guns with a special order semi-auto lower, but could be made into full auto by swapping a different lower on to them. They are still regulated and registered just like full auto machine guns, and are all "post samples".

There are 3 statuses of machine guns in this country:

Transferable--imported before 1968, or domestically made before May 1986 ("domestically made" also includes most of the MP-5's in the country--they were imported guns that were converted to machine guns in one of several ways--they are still considered domestic manufacture).

Pre-May Dealer Samples--Only a Class 3 dealer (currently or has given up his license) can posess these. They are the imports from 1968 to 1986. A dealer may retain these once he gives up his license, but can only sell them to a dealer (they never become transferable).

Post-May Dealer Samples--these are all MG's imported or domestically made after May 1986. A Dealer may have these, but must have a "demo" letter from a LE agency to have them in stock.

To give you an idea of the prices:

Transferable MP-5's (all converted Semi-auto Guns) are $7500.

Pre-May Samples are $5000 (still expensive, but the dealers pay it because they can keep it when they give up their licenses).

Post-May Samples are $1200--this is what the Police get.


Conversion of Semi-Auto HK's WERE (no new production of MG's for civilian sale since 1986, remember) done by Registering the reciever, and converting it to a Push Pin (making it identical to a factory gun), Registering the reciever and using modified lowers (the lower must be kept with the gun, or it becomes an illegal conversion part--since the reciever is the registered part, but the lower is modified), putting a Sear (the registered part) into the gun, or putting a Trigger Pack (a registered part) into the gun.


It is vaguely possible that the gun was a sear host (the sear is the registered part), and once the sear was removed, the gun would be semi-auto again. However, if the barrel is under 16" total length, it would be illegal unless it was registered as a Short Barrel Rifle.

What you might be thinking about is an HK 94, the semi version of the MP-5, and that is legal as long as the barrel (and permanant attachements) length is over 16".

How much is it to be sold for? That would probably give an indication of what it is.

AFARR
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 8:58:07 AM EDT
Thank you very much for taking the time to provide all the information that you did!
My head is still spinning.
The price on the piece I'm looking at is $3000.
It does not have a 16" barrel. It is very short and compact. I would love to have it but only if it could be done legally. I guess I will have to pass on this one. damn!
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 9:12:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jackyl:
Thank you very much for taking the time to provide all the information that you did!
My head is still spinning.
The price on the piece I'm looking at is $3000.
It does not have a 16" barrel. It is very short and compact. I would love to have it but only if it could be done legally. I guess I will have to pass on this one. damn!



Are you sure you are not looking at a HK SP89 semi auto pistol?
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 10:26:04 AM EDT
Does it look like either of these:

HK94: www.hkpro.com/HK94.htm

SP89: www.hkpro.com/sp89.htm
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 12:38:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jackyl: I would love to have it but only if it could be done legally. I guess I will have to pass on this one. damn!


Get you a copy of Gun List newspaper & peruse it for what you want. I'm betting you'll find it & at the price you want as well. Good luck as I want one too!
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 1:15:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2002 1:15:50 PM EDT by cc48510]
Check out Guns-N-Stuff.

www.gunsnstuff.net
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 1:20:26 PM EDT
My suggestion would be to get a parts kit somewhere w/o US Parts (Cheaper), then register an an HK-94 Receiver as an SBR on a Form 1. Then, you can assemble w/ all the foreign parts and a short barrel.
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 6:38:57 PM EDT
It does not look like the guns mentioned above, I'll try to take a picture of it so I can post it for you to see. The guy said I can try it out if I would like. He said it could be made full auto with a different lower receiver. My thought was, why not just buy one that is full auto? Imagine what a full auto lower receiver would cost.
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 7:41:04 PM EDT
Burst lowers and Navy lowers run about $450 to $600. But that's not the registered part. It's the upper receiver that's controlled.
He's talking about switching out the trigger groups, from semi - to select. The upper receiver is the serial numbered parts so he better be talking about a Registered Receiver HK MP5. True RR MP5's run about 8000 - 10000. Having a select fire lower, like the Navy or Burst groups may be construed by the ATF as constructive possession of a Machine Gun. I wouldn't walk that route. Put up a photo so we can see exactly what he's selling. I've seen too many SW5's w/ short barrels being passed off as MP5's at some gunshows.
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 9:30:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2002 9:32:01 PM EDT by HKocher]
Reread AFARR's reply, that should cover your questions.

As it sounds, you are dealing with an illegal configuration.

If it has a bbl shorter than 16" and has a stock it MUST be registered as a 'short barreled rifle.'

Either this gun was once an HK94 and is currently in an illegal configuration, or is truly was once an MP5. If it is an MP5 (minus paperwork) with a semi trigger group, it will NEVER be legal for you to own.

Stay away from the gun. The owner can still do a form 1 (assuming it was an HK94) and hope he doesn't get caught with the gun before the SBR is approved. So he is currently in violation,

Once he has approval, you could buy it and do a transfer, but don't even touch the gun until it is registered as a SBR, then it would be legit, sort of.

Registered MG sear packs for HK are about $4500 nowadays.
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 6:17:13 AM EDT
I have a thought (and some questions).

H&K markets an MP5 with an "S-E" semi-only trigger group in the US to LE agencies. While ATF has ruled that the MP5 type weapons have to have a clip on trigger group to not be considered an MG, what about one of these weapons? What if a PD bought several of these MP5 variants (and lets say with a 16" bbl) prior to ther 94 AW ban. Would they be a transferrable weapon? What if it had the short bbl? Would it be a transferrable SBR?
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 6:35:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By natez:
I have a thought (and some questions).

H&K markets an MP5 with an "S-E" semi-only trigger group in the US to LE agencies. While ATF has ruled that the MP5 type weapons have to have a clip on trigger group to not be considered an MG, what about one of these weapons? What if a PD bought several of these MP5 variants (and lets say with a 16" bbl) prior to ther 94 AW ban. Would they be a transferrable weapon? What if it had the short bbl? Would it be a transferrable SBR?



No it would still be a post-86 sample only. 1986 is the cutoff for transferrable MG's, not 1994. The swingdown lower is considered a no-no, since it allows the user to quickly change to the S-E-F or Burst groups. No true MP5's were in the public hands, only restamped HK94's and SP89's, during the NFA 86. You'll find a lot of "SEAR" ready HK94's and SP89's already registered as SBRs, but they are still lacking the swing-down lower. The sear ready guns run you about $3000 - $4000 and then a transferable sear installed in an SEF or Burst pack will run you about $4000 - $5000.

Link Posted: 1/21/2002 6:44:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kcsturm:
No true MP5's were in the public hands, only restamped HK94's and SP89's, during the NFA 86.



Actually, there are a few real MP5's out there that were imported pre NFA-68, but they are few and far between with maybe only 10 on the registry. I've never actually seen one, just heard them being discussed on Bowers board. They are basically collectors items and I have no idea what they sell for, but I can guarantee you most of us can't afford them.
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