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Posted: 1/16/2002 4:47:27 PM EST
I am interested in the DS arms stg58a FAL rifles made from the Austrian parts kit on an American receiver. If anyone has one of these please share with me your opinions on quality of construction, accuracy, and dollar value. Also if you know of any other reputable builders of these rifles please share also. Thank you fellow evil riflemen.

Link Posted: 1/16/2002 4:59:52 PM EST
I own a Medium contour SA58, so I can't comment on the entire STG58 pacakge. But, having said that, I can testify that the DSA receiver is the best there is, bar none. If they're mfg'ing it, you can be sure that it's "the best" you can buy, just like their SA-58's. My '58 is top quality, and a real beauty. I've examined other FAL's and none compare to theirs - seriously.

DSA may charge more, but as with most other exotic toys, you get what you pay for.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 5:29:45 PM EST
Three words: Arizona Response Systems.

Mark puts together an OUTSTANDING rifle and stands behind them 100%.



Link Posted: 1/16/2002 5:56:56 PM EST
I have the L1A1 variant on an Imbel reciever. I only have good things to say about my rifle. It is probably the best way into the .308 semi auto market as far as I am concerned.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 6:33:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/16/2002 6:35:08 PM EST by County669]
I have a DSA STG-58, and I haven't had a problem with it at all. It shoots fine. You can't beat the price. Trust me you can't go wrong the the parts kit gun. It's my first .308 there is very little recoil to it.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 6:38:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/16/2002 6:39:22 PM EST by Wiggins]
If you want info on the FAL go here: www.fnfal.com/falfiles

Kyle
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 7:25:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/22/2002 12:34:07 PM EST by qwezxc12]
If your thinking of geting the DSA - I say go for it! I have three FALs, all on DSA receivers - two from DSA, one a custom build.

My first was a STG58a on a Type 2 rec (my favorite). I got it for dealers price ($795.00) + shipping and transfer fee to a local FFL. You simply CANNOT beat that price for a beautiful Austrian FAL, made from new or excellent parts that functions 100%, right out of the box.

http://imagep.webphotos.iwon.com//1000027302/1000027302_122200242059PM0.7325665.jpg

BTW, Mark Graham (Gunplumber) at ARS DOES build awesome FALS...he built me a Para from my parts: DSA type 1 upper & 16" Elite front end, Argentinian Para lower, FSE folding cocking handle, and other STG kit parts, and finished it in MetCol III...it's evil incarnate! http://imagep.webphotos.iwon.com//1000027302/1000027302_122200242546PM0.1002858.jpg

Alex

edited 'cause I switched picture hosts...
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 5:34:38 PM EST
Thanks guys.
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 6:50:14 PM EST
Damn, FALs look bad ass! Gonna have to look in to one of those.

Keving67
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 6:59:34 PM EST
DS Arms makes a nice rifle, but you'll pay a premium for them. Someone earlier mentioned Arizona Response Systems and I'll have to vouch for Mark Powell's expertise, as he helped be repair my FN two years ago. I left him a message, he called me long distance, talked me throught the repair and wished me a good day! No charge, just happy shooting! My gun lust started after firing a Canadian FN (C1A1) back in 1983. Ever since that day I wanted an FN and it took me 8 years to find an authentic one (pre-ban Argentine). Nothing really shoots like an FN. An M-14 might be more accurate, but the ergonomics involved with the FN are unparalleled! Be careful about purchasing a parts gun, as there is alot of garbage being peddled as FNs at the gun shows these days! www.FNFAL.com is the correct place to ask these types of questions. Their e-mail forum is fantastic! I've been a member for 3 years and have met several of the other collectors and sportsman. Once you shoot an FN, you'll never be satisfied until you own one of your own!
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 2:03:08 AM EST
I’ll second the vote of confidence in DSA and Mark of Arizona Response Systems and add Derek Huffman of Arizona Expert Arms www.azexarms.com. I have had a FAL that he built up for about 18 months and am nothing but pleased with the quality. Derek not only does great work, he stands behind his product.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 3:50:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By FNFalGuy:
DS Arms makes a nice rifle, but you'll pay a premium for them.



The SA58, yes.

The STG58a that 4wheelin' is referring to, NO. I got mine for $800. New, from the factory.

4wheelin' -

I bought my STG58a WANTING to dislike it. I mean, look at my name, and you'll have a good idea of what I like in a firearm.

Without exaggeration, the STG58a is the BEST value in firearms today. $5 mags. AR like recoil. .308 power. A WEALTH of cheap parts and customization options available.

And now for the really good part.

Off a bench, my STG58a can shoot 3-4" groups at 200 yards with surplus ammo. With iron sights.

Only scoped bolt rifles costing TWICE as much can beat that.

YES, the STG58a is a MUST buy.



Link Posted: 1/18/2002 7:09:18 AM EST
Also consider the DS Arms heavy duty scope mount with the STG-58A. (I can't even spell iren sites !)
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 7:25:45 AM EST
The STG58a is a great rifle for the price. I don't have one but I do spend a lot of time at FALFiles and they are highly recommended there.

The other guys mentioned can build you a great rifle also but it will cost more. If you are looking for the lowest cost out of the box shooter the STG58a is it.

Should you want a rifle built to your specs I can recommend Mark T. Graham "Gunplumber" of Arizona Response Systems.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 7:48:11 AM EST
two questions from a newbie. Whats the difference between a type 1 and type 2 receiver? I noticed they say a flashhider is included with the STG58A rifle. are these preban?
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 8:03:27 AM EST
Any of the custom FAL builders on FNFAL.com will produce a rifle every bit as good or better than DSA at a very competative price. Also, buy the Arizona Response Systems FAL building/Trouble shooting manual and video, both offer a wealth of info very cheaply (the video is 6hrs Long!)
BrenLover
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 8:06:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By jamon:
two questions from a newbie. Whats the difference between a type 1 and type 2 receiver?


Good question.

First the Type 2 receiver is likely to be on back-order. (It usually is.)

I expect that for virtually all of our purposes the Type 1 or Type 2 receiver does not matter.

DS Arms manufacturers and sells a Squad-Automatic-Weapon (SAW) with a HEAVY-BARREL to certain foreign countries. This config. requires a Type 2 receiver.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 8:36:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2002 8:37:06 AM EST by Bostonterrier97]
The BEST FAL receivers were made by FN. Imbel is licensed by Fabrique National to make FAL receivers and thus: their receivers meet FN's standards.

The BEST receiver that you can get for a FAL is made by Imbel.

Probably the BEST thing to do: is to get an Imbel Receiver, then locate a good GunSmith who specializes in building good FAL Rifles.

If they use enough American Made Parts then you can have a pistol grip or put on a flash hider if you have a thumbhole or dragunov stock.

Having said all of that: I own 4 early Century Arms "FALS" (all have Imbel Receivers, all take Metric Pattern Mags, 3 have L1A1 Parts fitted to the Metric Upper) and while they are all ugly, they all function really well with no jams or extraction problems).
But having said that: a lot of times Century Arms Rifles have some serious problems. (I just got lucky).

If I were in your shoes I would avoid DSA, Enterprise and Century Arms. Get an Imbel Receiver then have either Arizona Response Systems OR Arizona Expertarms Build you a really good FAL Rifle.
Now, I realize this might be a little more expensive than going the standard Factory Route, but it is worth it in terms of money, time and heartache. What you are paying for is for a Rifle that is built to YOUR specifications, fit and finish. A rifle that is not only RELIABLE but ACCURATE as well. This is worth the money.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 9:03:30 AM EST
It has been said that many of the century guns had head space problems so if anyone has one get it checked!
BrenLover
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 9:08:59 AM EST
Go to the FS forum on FNFAL.com, I made a post for a buddy that has an IMBEL reciever and STG-58 kit for sale for $550 OBO has re-parked bipod and handguards, a USA pistol grip BUT no other USA parts. This along with the manual and video for about $40 shipped and you can put together your own FAL.
BrenLover
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 9:36:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2002 12:24:02 PM EST by Wadman]
From top to bottom: FAL receiver type II, III, and I.



I've heard of many people avoiding Century Arms rifles (especially those using Hesse receivers). I've heard of some who weren't satisfied with Entreprise receivers. But very very seldom have I heard of anyone having issues with a DSA built rifle or receiver.

The type I receiver was a work of art. Forged and machined with lightening cuts throughout. The type II was produced in response to claims that the rear part was cracking under the stress of full-auto use. Time consuming and expensive production costs led to the cast type III where all the extra machined lightening cuts were omitted. For us non-select fire users, the differences are effectively cosmetic. But the type I and II do like nice, don't they?
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 12:16:28 PM EST
So is the difference purely cosmetic?



Originally Posted By Wadman:
From top to bottom: FAL receiver type II, III, and I.

http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/Wadguns/FAL-receivers.jpg

I've heard of many people avoiding Century Arms rifles (especially those using Hesse receivers). I've heard of some who weren't satisfied with Entreprise receivers. But very very seldom have I heard of anyone having issues with a DSA built rifle or receiver.

Link Posted: 1/18/2002 12:43:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By vettman1:
So is the difference purely cosmetic?



The lightening cuts extended manufacturing time and increased costs. So the Type 3 was a cost cutting measure.

The Type 2 was to reinforce the area of the rear locking lug. There were reports of hairline fractures developing in that area of the receiver.

Link Posted: 1/18/2002 1:37:05 PM EST
If you're looking for a rifle with nice cosmetics, check out my preban Belgian heavy barrel FALO:
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 7:19:02 PM EST
marvl,
That heavy barrel Belgian (Halo) looks sweet! It's nice to see that someone else shares my taste, hence my AR15.com name ' "FNFALGuy".
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 7:28:02 PM EST
Don't have one in my collection...YET! But, Iam going to be a good boy all year long so maybe Santa...

Anyway, finally handled a DSA STG58 carbine at the last gun show. I actually was calculating how much the total cost woudl be if I brought it home. I figured $900 for the gun, about $25,000 for th car my wife would take, half the house, I'm sick of the dogs...

VERY well built. Felt AWESOME in my hands I wanted it BAD. I have also heard good things about Entreprise, but after handing the DSA, I figure I'll shell out the additional $150 or so for the quality. You CANNOT tell its a parts gun, I promise! Buy one, send me pics to drool over for 11 months!
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 9:19:53 PM EST
The DSA STG58A is cheaper than the comparable Entreprise model, the STG58C Government model which cost $200 more. In the long run, the Entreprise is even more expensive because they include the magazine floorplate and follower in the US parts count, which means if you want to use those $5 imported FAL mags, you need to add two additional US parts to the Entreprise. Most people opt for a US pistol grip and cocking handle, but I think you can replace the handguard or buttstock as well.

As far as quality, both rifles use the same Steyr parts kits. Given they use the same quality of kits, accuracy will be very similar. However, Entreprise uses I believe FSE US internals, which some complain are are not of the same quality as the DSA H/T/S.

And some like the DSA receiver over the Entreprise. Last I heard, Entreprise solved their production problems and their Type I's are just as good as any other US made receiver. Of course, Imbel is the standard in which to judge US parts.

Entreprise has a new Imbel rifle which looks interesting. It's probably of higher quality than the CAI and is priced at $799 retail, which I assume means you can get them for $599.

If you want the highest quality built to your specifications, then you need to look at Gunplumber or the other guys. These will cost a little more, but you get a superb rifle with a great finish.
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