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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 1/9/2002 8:00:56 PM EDT
I spoke to a woman who was reasonably helpfull and I was quite amicable to her. I don't know if she really knew what she was talking about, but she pointed me in the right direction concerning Assault Weapons in Kalifornia.

The main problem is caused by Kalifornia Penal (Penile) Code 12276. This dastardly affront to the constituion can be viewed in its sickening infamy here:
caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/pen/12275-12277.html

From what I can tell, manufacturing my own AR-15 or AR-15 style rifle from either scratch or from any % forging is Illegal! Even if I modify the receiver to be in compliance with the new Osama Bin Locklyer definition of a pistol grip, viewable here:caag.state.ca.us/firearms/regs/sb23.htm

Apparently, this law was challenged in a court case by Kasler Vs. Lockyer and Kasler lost. You can read about the ramifications here: caag.state.ca.us/firearms/regagunfaqs.htm#2

Because of this bullshit court interpretation of the 1989 Roberti-Roos law concerning the definition of 'series' as it applies to the AK-47 and AR-15, ANYTHING similar to the AR is now effectively banned in CA. This is because of the language in Penal Code 12276. Yeah, it really sucks.

According to the person I spoke to at CA DoJ, any gun that uses the AR15 "action" is also banned, even if it passes the SB23 law definition of an assault rifle.

Well this all really sucks for the AR15 and AK47, but I think it gives hope for the FNC, FAL, and AR-180.

The advantage of the FNC and AR-180 is that they use AR-15 magazines. Also, they do not (to my knowledge) us the AR15 "action". At least, they do not use many parts that are interchangeable with the AR-15.

My hope is that if an individual or company could modify the FNC, AR-180, or FAL such that it passed SB23 definition of an assault weapon, and 12276's definition of "minor" differences, then it would be legal in Kalifornia. This is a big IF, as the modification would have to be major enough to constitute a significantly different "action".

Its all bullshit anyway. This crap makes me want to buy a Mini-14 and modify it to take AR15 magazines, get a decent trigger, good bolt, decent barrel, and fix the op-rod, etc.
I don't mind having to use a straight stock, but not being able to use parts from an AR is some serious bullshit!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone have some comments on my interpretation of these laws, or ideas on how to legally get around the AW ban here in Kali? Thanks.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 8:18:08 PM EDT
Wouldn't it just be a lot more rewarding to move away from California???

I hated Massachusetts, even though I was born there, and after 36 years, moved to North Carolina. I have never for one moment regreted it.

It could be a great adventure, the start of a whole new life. Why not get a bit of that ol' fashioned pioneer spirit? Pack up the prairie schooner and head east, or north. Just get outta there! Stop making excuses, you know you'll be happier, and California will be "better off" (sliding onto the ash heap of history) without you.

California is a lost cause. Get off the sinking ship while you can still swim away. You know that in the future it will only get worse.

JMHO, YMMV, etc.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 8:22:10 PM EDT
I'm still in engineering school. I'll split when I get finished.

I would like to screw the CA assault weapon ban by making my own rifle, and giving EVERYONE who wants it, the blueprints. My modification would have to get DoJ approval, though. They may never give this to a gun I make, even though it may beat their own laws.

I can at least try. Fight the good fight, and so on.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 8:29:12 PM EDT
Since moving isnt always a option, continue fighting for those who do live in CA. I've told my wife (CA Native) that we will never live there because of the gun laws. Fortunately she likes guns and hates CA so no problems there
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 8:57:11 PM EDT
Legally...no. But there will be a Gun Show at the Reno Hilton this March

Sgt(noIdon'thaveanyfruit)ar15
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 9:14:38 PM EDT
I lived in the PRK for 14 years and it got worse every year. I fought everything I could, it only staved it off. But, Fight, Fight, fight, and fight some more. I moved only because my wife wanted. Stop the insanity, get up and fight for your bill of rights, rights!!!
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 10:27:06 PM EDT
The FAL and AR-180 are still covered under SB23 due to the detachable magazine and pistol grip. If you remove the pistol grip, they are legal to own. But you still have to find a dealer willing to sell you one.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 11:39:34 PM EDT
Sgtar15, I thought about going to the SHOT show in Vegas, but I heard it was FFL only.

Mattja, a clone FAL like DSArms makes could be construed to be too similar to the real Fabrique National FAL. It is on the Roberti Roos list, and 12276 says that even if you pass SB23, the gun must not only have minor differences between the clone and the real deal FAL. Read 12276 and you will see what I mean.

I think something more drastic is needed.
Link Posted: 1/10/2002 4:48:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2002 4:50:35 AM EDT by Atencio]

Originally Posted By mattja:
The FAL and AR-180 are still covered under SB23 due to the detachable magazine and pistol grip. If you remove the pistol grip, they are legal to own. But you still have to find a dealer willing to sell you one.



Entreprise in Irwindale manufactures FALs and will sell them to the public minus pistol grip and magazine. You could also just buy a receiver and build it yourself. With a 10rd magazine attached via allen bolt and a dustcover with flipup top you can feed stripper clips in and then keep the pistol grip.

A DSA FAL rifle is not covered by Roberti-Roos and would be legal in California if it didnt violate SB-23
Link Posted: 1/10/2002 12:17:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2002 1:17:55 PM EDT by SMGLee]
No semi auto matic assault survived in California except for M1a, and Mini14. you can't modify a FNC, AR180 or FAL, but you can build a FAL like the guys mentioned above. bolt down the magazine or just cut off the grip. Armalite makes AR180B, it is not allowed in Kalifornia, but you can still buy it in the free states.

I help out at my friens' gun shop from time to time. You get some guys walking in and ask to see an AR15 from time to time, I told them it is banned. they would give me that confused look and asked me when did that happen. All I can said is SB23, and I just want to reach over the counter and choke them.
Link Posted: 1/10/2002 12:35:46 PM EDT
The M1A sounds like a perfect choice, to me, and even the Garand is not a horrible choice. Mine happens to be chambered in .308, and I enjoy shooting the old warrior.

Console yourself by mounting a bayonet.
Link Posted: 1/10/2002 7:10:42 PM EDT
Is it true the Shot Show in Vegas is for FFL only?
Link Posted: 1/10/2002 9:42:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jack1124:
Is it true the Shot Show in Vegas is for FFL only?



There is a big differance between the Shot Show and the regular Gun SHows held in Reno,Nv. In Reno the are both FFL and Private sellers.

SGtar15
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 1:20:32 AM EDT
First, I'd like to build a AR15 in dedicated .22LR configuration. Rimfires are exempt from the AW ban. The problem is making it permanent so you can't swap uppers. There has to be a loophole. There are loopholes for everything else.

Second, what do you know about modifying a Mini-14 to take AR mags? It just so happens I have a potential deal pending on a Mini but I haven't decided if I want to take it or not. It comes with one 5 round mag and that sucks.

Third, I just bought a FAL receiver from Enterprise. Some of us on this board had a group buy going that ended Dec 31. Enterprise are real nice folks to deal with and I highly recommend them. They sponsor our Webshooters meets and matches. They're in Irwindale, so if you're in the SoCal area, go by and pay them a visit and see what they got.
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 5:18:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2002 5:19:15 AM EDT by Atencio]

Originally Posted By Big_Bear:
First, I'd like to build a AR15 in dedicated .22LR configuration. Rimfires are exempt from the AW ban. The problem is making it permanent so you can't swap uppers. There has to be a loophole. There are loopholes for everything else.

Second, what do you know about modifying a Mini-14 to take AR mags? It just so happens I have a potential deal pending on a Mini but I haven't decided if I want to take it or not. It comes with one 5 round mag and that sucks.

Third, I just bought a FAL receiver from Enterprise. Some of us on this board had a group buy going that ended Dec 31. Enterprise are real nice folks to deal with and I highly recommend them. They sponsor our Webshooters meets and matches. They're in Irwindale, so if you're in the SoCal area, go by and pay them a visit and see what they got.



me whacks Big_Bear with Entreprise receiver for spelling their name wrong
Regarding .22 with AR, still sounds iffy. Even though the case was tossed about adding clones to Roberti-Roos I still dont see anyone anxious to challenge it other than that gogo-gaget one.
Big_Bear, you live in Big Bear? I live down in Upland, not to far away.
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 8:25:53 AM EDT
Entreprise, Entreprise... <DOH!> See, now if I'd won a hat with their name on it at one of the matches I'd have no excuse for spelling. LOL!

No problem with getting a dedicated .22 AR upper. That can be done any number of ways using any of the .22 conversion kits out there. Kurt's Kustom builds some nice ones. Problem is the lower. Say if you block the lower so it won't accept USGI mags, then you can't use the mags that come with any of the kits, unless the mags are modified too. All that is moot anyway since nobody will ship AR receivers to California.

Nope, don't live in Big Bear but I like it up there. They made some snow last night so I gotta get up there soon to do some skiing.
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 11:45:58 AM EDT
I think it's worse than you think:

12276. As used in this chapter, "assault weapon" shall mean the
following designated semiautomatic firearms:
(a) All of the following specified rifles:
(1) All AK series including, but not limited to, the models
identified as follows:
(A) Made in China AK, AKM, AKS, AK47, AK47S, 56, 56S, 84S, and
86S.
(B) Norinco 56, 56S, 84S, and 86S.
(C) Poly Technologies AKS and AK47.
(D) MAADI AK47 and ARM.
(2) UZI and Galil.
(3) Beretta AR-70.
(4) CETME Sporter.
(5) Colt AR-15 series.
(6) Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR 110C.
(7) Fabrique Nationale FAL, LAR, FNC, 308 Match, and Sporter.
(8) MAS 223.
(9) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, and HK-PSG-1.
(10) The following MAC types:
(A) RPB Industries Inc. sM10 and sM11.
(B) SWD Incorporated M11.
(11) SKS with detachable magazine.
(12) SIG AMT, PE-57, SG 550, and SG 551.
(13) Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48.
(14) Sterling MK-6.
(15) Steyer AUG.
(16) Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78S.
(17) Armalite AR-180.
(18) Bushmaster Assault Rifle.

(e) The term "series" includes all other models that are only variations, with minor differences, of those models listed in
subdivision (a), regardless of the manufacturer.

Leave NOW!
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 12:09:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2002 12:13:00 PM EDT by Big_Bear]
Thank you for your input Centauro97, but what you posted has been on the books since 1989. The "series" ban is recent, as interpreted by the powers that be, and only affects AR and AK "series" at least until they start adding more to it. Notice the word "series" is only listed after AR and AK.

FAL, FNC, LAR, AR-180, etc. clones are still legal as long as they're not in SB23 defined AW configuration. Entreprise is a good example. (See, I speeled it rite that time!)
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 12:25:21 PM EDT
Yeah these bans suck, but I refuse to give mine up. Phuckem

Kalibans
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 12:31:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By jack1124:
Is it true the Shot Show in Vegas is for FFL only?



There is a big differance between the Shot Show and the regular Gun SHows held in Reno,Nv. In Reno the are both FFL and Private sellers.

SGtar15

And those of us looking to sell stuff can usually get top dollar from Cali refugees because they know they can't get "the good stuff" any other way. Just don't mention that your from outta state (don't ask, don't tell) or the seller may not be interested in dealing with you. We already know you are from there, just don't mention it( that's a water pipe, sir, not a bong!).
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 6:19:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Big_Bear:
First, I'd like to build a AR15 in dedicated .22LR configuration. Rimfires are exempt from the AW ban.



IIRC, rimfires are only exempt from the CA law. The 94 fed law does not exempt them so even a dedicated .22 upper would need to be in a post ban configuration.

Just in case anyone cares.
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 9:42:43 PM EDT
Lets hassle Shawn over at Cavalry Arms again to make a dedicated .22lr. He has talked about it before.
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