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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 1/8/2002 6:05:56 AM EDT
I am in the process of buying a Bushmaster XM15 E2S A2 with a 16 inch barrel. So I will be officially joining the ranks soon.

Couple of questions:

1. I read somewhere that Bushmaster suggests that you do not use steel cased ammo? Is this true? Should I only use brass?

2. Is remanufactured ammo basically considered new? I mean, it is remanufactured which I take to mean that it leaves the factory with the same specs as new. I this correct?

3. With the 16 inch barrel, what should I expect for accuracy at say 100yrd, 200yrd, and 300yrd.

4. Is there anything I can do to help accuracy, besides getting a new upper. I plan on getting a 20 ro 24 inch in the future, for competition, and long range squirrel blasting. But in the meantime, anything I can do?

5. Magazines - I am getting 1 30round thermomold with the rifle. I plan on getting several more mags, which ones should I be looking for? I see GI issues mags at the gun shows for next to nothing. Any rule of thumb on magazine purchases?

Thanks for the help.

Bcavanau
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 6:31:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bcavanau:
1. I read somewhere that Bushmaster suggests that you do not use steel cased ammo? Is this true? Should I only use brass?
Bcavanau




There is so much cheap, reloadable brass ammo out there, why use steel-case ammo, except in a life and death emergency? If unclear on the poicy, ask Bushmaster if in fact it is true, and why. I suspect they are concerned with accelerated wear.


Originally Posted By bcavanau:

2. Is remanufactured ammo basically considered new? I mean, it is remanufactured which I take to mean that it leaves the factory with the same specs as new. I this correct?
Bcavanau



No, remanufactured ammo is not new, not necessarily "nearly" new, and may not meet any specs whatsoever. I have tried nationally known commercial "brands" of remanufactured ammo, only to find some that it would not chamber or fire reliably, and some would not eject cleanly (both revolver and semi-auto pistol).

Again, there is a plenitude of new commercial and surplus .223 at decent prices. My Rock River CAR15 particularly likes Denel/PMP South African commercial loads, at around $4/box.


Originally Posted By bcavanau:

5. Magazines - I am getting 1 30round thermomold with the rifle. I plan on getting several more mags, which ones should I be looking for? I see GI issues mags at the gun shows for next to nothing. Any rule of thumb on magazine purchases?
Bcavanau



I use strictly metal GI magazines for actual shooting (my preference, some of the plastic mags work fine). I have half a dozen 30s and an equal number of 20s. Look around for a FAQ on magazines, it should be very useful. I do have the Bushmaster 10 round mag that was provided with the gun. I keep it loaded with dummy loads and use it for function testing, demoing the gun to the unenlightened, etc. It works okay in that role.
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 7:02:08 AM EDT
The best thing you can do to improve accuarcy is replace the stock trigger with a quality 2-stage trigger. Something like a Jewell trigger. Other than that I suggest practice.

The steel cased ammo (ie Russian ammo) has a laquer coating. Yes it works fine in many peoples rifles but the fact is that as the chamber heats up the laquer starts to melt onto your chamber/barrel. Steel case is also harder on the ejector. Personnally I save it for my AKs.

The 20/24" target barrels realy make the AR a very accurate rifle when you also have a good scope. However, you really will need a bipod since they make the rifle very,very front heavy.

Have fun.

sgtar15
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 8:05:30 AM EDT
Welcome newbie!!
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 8:22:56 AM EDT
I think once you zero it in, out of the box you'll be happy with the performance.

Welcome to the club!
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 8:44:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bcavanau:

1. I read somewhere that Bushmaster suggests that you do not use steel cased ammo? Is this true? Should I only use brass?

2. Is remanufactured ammo basically considered new? I mean, it is remanufactured which I take to mean that it leaves the factory with the same specs as new. I this correct?

3. With the 16 inch barrel, what should I expect for accuracy at say 100yrd, 200yrd, and 300yrd.

4. Is there anything I can do to help accuracy, besides getting a new upper. I plan on getting a 20 ro 24 inch in the future, for competition, and long range squirrel blasting. But in the meantime, anything I can do?

5. Magazines - I am getting 1 30round thermomold with the rifle. I plan on getting several more mags, which ones should I be looking for? I see GI issues mags at the gun shows for next to nothing. Any rule of thumb on magazine purchases?

Thanks for the help.

Bcavanau



1) Don't use/buy cheap ammo. Even military surplus is a better choice and it is cheap. Since you are buying a "non-match" chambered rifle, any military or civilian new manufacture with brass cases should be fine. The steel wears components faster, and as mentioned, the laquer melts into the chamber causing FTE and other problems.

3) For accuracy, I bet the rifle will outshoot your ability for a long time. This is assuming you are not already a marksman with rifles. Out to 100 yards MOA might be achievable with a stock 16" AR. Depends on rifle, ammo, and YOU. As another mentioned, a better trigger is a big plus. As a less expensive alternative to Jewell (which I love BTW), the Rock River Arms match trigger is very simple to install yourself and a major improvement over stock. And MUCH cheaper than a Jewell.

4) Accuracy again. Practice a lot. Learn proper sight, breath and trigger control. Once you are decent at this, decide if you want a "tack driver". If you do decide to use a scope, I don't recommend it on your A2. The scope is too high for a proper cheekweld. Better with a flattop upper, better barrel and match chamber. I routinely get sub MOA from my ar equiped with Jewell trigger, flattop upper, Douglas barrel, Leupold 6-20x scope and Federal Match ammo.

5) USGI all the way. BTW, there are 20 rounders and 30s. The 30s are fun for blasting, but if you really plan on doing some benchrest style shooting for accuracy, you'll find the 20s are easier to work with.

Welcome to the addiction, er, club.

James
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 7:37:02 PM EDT
For the folks who say that the Wolf ammo wears faster, which parts and why do these parts wear faster? Also where did you get your info from?
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 6:08:28 AM EDT
AMMO: I have had nothing but problems trying to use Wolf ammo in my Bushmaster (Wolf is Russian steel-cased lacquer-coated). Your best bet is good military surplus. I recommend the South African stuff that's currently available, or U.S. Lake City production. See www.ammoman.com This is especially true if you plan to do a lot of shooting. Ammo can really eat up the budget.

MAGAZINES: Your best bet is USGI mags. Quality is good, price is reasonable. If you're not concerned about capacity (i.e., 10 rounds is OK) the stock Bushmaster mags are fine too. As noted above, USA mags are junk. Check out the Mag forum under Equipment Exchange. I've bought and sold lots of mags there. Never had any problems.

ACCURACY: I think the comments above cover it. You should certainly get 1-2 MOA out of the rifle.

Welcome aboard!
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 10:23:48 AM EDT
Thanks for all the info. I am absorbing it as much as possible.

So, I pretty much got the idea.

New, brass cased rounds (whichever shoots best from my particular rifle.

Longer barrel, and maybe a better trigger will help accuracy.

GI mags most reliable, and cheap (also easy to find).

All good info.

Could somebody explain what MOA is, how it is calculated, etc?
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 11:04:43 AM EDT
I was not aware that Bushmaster still had Thermolds in stock. I have checked about once a week for them.

I have 6 Thermolds now, and they work great. I have heard that Orlites don't work with Bushmaster for some reason.

I like my little 10 rounder, and keep it loaded all the time. I am nervous about doing that with the Thermolds. I don't want to ruin a good pre-ban mag, when I can replace the 10 whenever I want.

I think that reports of wear with steel cased ammo may be overblown, but it has the reputation of causing extractor wear.

Don't forget that you will have a "break-in" period for your rifle. Underloaded ammo will probably short-stroke for awhile. I had this problem with Wolf ammo. I was able to fire about 50 shots with Wolf right out of the box. Then it started Short-strokin (Hammer falls with empty or no cartridge in the chamber). The next 50 or so were fairly unreliable. I had to re-charge the bolt between every 1-3 shots. I almost called Bushmaster to report a problem, but then it started working flawlessly again after about 100 total rounds.

I bought Wolf before I knew it was an inferior product. I still have a few boxes left, but don't use it except for film. It functioned fine, except the accuracy was poor. I use mostly SA battlepack ammo or Q3131A now.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 12:24:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bcavanau:
Could somebody explain what MOA is, how it is calculated, etc?



360 degrees in a circle, 60 minutes in a degree. 21600 minutes of angle in a full circle.

For any given shooting range, consider a circle with that radius. You could calculate the circumference of that circle (2 x pi x radius in inches), and divide by 21600. This would calculate the Minute of Angle length for any given range. [If the radius is 100 yards, it turns out to be 1.0471973333", when the value of pi is used to 6 decimal places. I know you guys remembered all this but what the heck.]

Or you could remember that it is about an inch at 100 yards, 2 inches at 200 yards, 3 inches at 300 yards. Guess which is easier?
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 3:23:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Torf:
I was not aware that Bushmaster still had Thermolds in stock. I have checked about once a week for them.

Torf,

Sorry, but I forgot to mention, this is a private sale of a used rifle.

Bcavanau
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 3:26:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tinker:
360 degrees in a circle, 60 minutes in a degree. 21600 minutes of angle in a full circle.

For any given shooting range, consider a circle with that radius. You could calculate the circumference of that circle (2 x pi x radius in inches), and divide by 21600. This would calculate the Minute of Angle length for any given range. [If the radius is 100 yards, it turns out to be 1.0471973333", when the value of pi is used to 6 decimal places. I know you guys remembered all this but what the heck.]

Or you could remember that it is about an inch at 100 yards, 2 inches at 200 yards, 3 inches at 300 yards. Guess which is easier?



Tinker,

Thanks, I think
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 3:30:50 PM EDT
I picked up my rifle this afternoon. Met the guy I was buying it from at 4:00 at a gun club.

He walked me through operation, cleaning, etc.

Then we loaded her up and let some lead fly. Only shot 30 rounds (which he was nice enough to supply).

I love it...Will post "baby pics" as soon as I can.

Any other tips, techniques, etc would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Bcavanau
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