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Posted: 1/3/2002 10:56:50 PM EDT
Im thinking about adding an M1A to the collection. Dont know much about them. Any remarks or advice?
Thanx in advance.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 1:41:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2002 1:58:33 AM EDT by operatorerror]
The M1A is the civilian version of the M14. Some would say that the M14 is the best main battle rifle ever devised.

The M14/M1A is very accurate out of the box, and can be made even more accurate by a competent gunsmith. M14's are hard to come by, and are VERY pricey. M1A's are a lot more common, but are not cheap, either. And magazines (USGI are the best) range in price from $35.00-$50.00 NIW. Used mags are a little bit cheaper, but not much.

M14's have forged receivers, Chinese M1A's are also forged. Springfield Armory M1A receivers are cast.

Chinese receivered rifles are to be carefully scrutinized. They are a lot cheaper, but if unmodified, CAN be a real problem child. Not all of them, though. And the Chinese receivers are supposed to be amongst the best ones out there.

Go for the Springfield Armory rifle. Though I have heard talk of the newer rifles not being up to par with their older models.

Confused yet?
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 3:36:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2002 3:37:08 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
Guntrador, operror has given good info on th M-14/M1A, if you decide on the Chinese version then you will want to know about these fellows as they are very good with modification and re-heat treating of Chinese receivers.

www.smithenterprise.com/start%20page.htm

They took a China version and re-worked (re-heat treated, trigger job, re-headspaced, glass bedded, installed real NM sights, etc...) it for me and returned a completely top notch M1A.
Made the rifle a real pleasure to shoot and very reliable. They even have a bush-type mod now which shortens the barrel, lots of neat stuff and good info.

M-14 book by Scott Duff is a very good one on this weapon also.

Hope this has hepled,
Mike
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 5:28:55 AM EDT
I love the ChiCom guns.
All you really need to do is have the headspace checked and check the harness of the bolt.
The Smith trigger job is a sweet option.
cpermd
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 6:38:41 AM EDT
Thanx for the input guys. Im thinking about the Springfield. Looking thru one of my dealers cataloges I see there are a few choices in them. Will let ya know what I do!
Thanx,
Ed
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:16:56 AM EDT
Here is some more info from Fulton Armoury www.fulton-armory.com/ on the M1A.

www.fulton-armory.com/M14S_Eval.htm#Bolt
Updated FAQ Article: On the Chinese M14S

www.fulton-armory.com/M14.htm
M14/M1A Introduction

www.fulton-armory.com/indexf-special.htm
M14/M1A Fans Parts Section: Parts, Accessories, Books, Tools

www.fulton-armory.com/M14Rifles.htm
M14/M1A Fans Rifles, Services, More!
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 8:31:36 AM EDT
I have a Springfield M1A N.M. and enjoy it as one of the California legal weapons worth having still.

They are expensive - over priced in my opinion - and if someone else were to start making them and marketing them the price would drop about 30-40%.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 9:31:19 AM EDT
M1A's are indeed way over priced (particularly USGI mags). On the other hand..What a Rifle!

The ergonomics on it are wonderful. The safety (like the Garand) is located in front of the trigger guard, easily accessible by either left hand or right hand shooters.

The rear sight is very good: Adjustable for both Windage and Elevation. The Front sight is a Blade type. combined with a fairly long sight radius, this allows the shooter to get very fast target acquisition.

Like all rifles, the M1A is NOT perfect. But it does in my opinion have the best combination of trade offs. It will NEVER be as accurate as an AR design, it will NEVER be as reliable as an AK design.
On the other hand it offers better penetration and wind bucking capability than either the AK or the AR. Its Reliability is midway between that of the AK and the AR. Ditto for Accuracy.

Some say that the M1A is too long, others don't like the fact that there is no pistol grip.
These complaints are easily rectified, by getting Springfield Armory Scout Rifle (a shortened M1A), and putting it into an synthetic E2 Stock.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 9:44:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2002 9:45:01 AM EDT by 9divdoc]
*The M1A is a great rifle... it was the rifle issued to me in Basic... loved them eversince.. it has the range..the wind bucking ability..and the penetration
*It has a reciprocating op rod...to pound on if you have a jam to clear...
*Mags are expensive...but not hard to find...
*Its a lousy optics platform...but useable..
*Its historic
*Great rifle for bayonet fighting and the stock will take a pounding (get laminated)
*Lots of parts and lots of excellent smiths out there to do the work you cant or are unwilling to do
*Its All American (the concept anyway..)
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 11:44:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2002 11:49:46 AM EDT by stator]
I find it hard to believe that any US military unit issued M1As to anyone in uniform. M1As are soley the trademark of Springfield Armory, INC. Emphasis is on the INC of incorporation. Because of the trademark, M1As can only be produced by Springfield Armory INC. which, by the way, has nothing to do with the US arsenal called Springfied Armory. The M1A is solely a commerical rifle.

Because of NFA laws, the original USGI issue M14s are always considered to be machine guns. Thus, most M14 receivers were destroyed and were sold as scrap along with the remaining parts.

SA Inc. bought hoards of the surplus parts and started to cast a M14 clone receiver in semi-auto form. They used the surplus parts to build the rest of the rifle. This is what they sold.

The surplus USGI parts have been dwindling in supply, so SA Inc. has started to either reproduced parts or contracted for repro parts. As time goes on, the M1A rifles from Springfield have fewer USGI parts. I understand now that majority of the parts are no longer USGI.

USGI parts are much preferred by many shooters. Thus, most desire M1As that contain the most amount of USGI parts. This is usually everything but the receiver, barrel, and stock. Several books have been written that includes identifying USGI parts from others. You will even find posts here and on other boards asking similar questions.

I have a MA9826 M1A model from SA Inc. that I enjoy. It is the rifle I use in service matches as I'm in CA. I would not hesitate recommending one to someone who wants a legal M14 clone. I think it is the best clone out there. However, for anyone purchasing, they must check the parts for USGI. Reproduction parts will most likely end up being replaced with USGI parts. This needs to be factored in the true cost of the rifle.

There are others with problems of legality such as MKS. Search on these company if you want to know more on the BATF fight they are in.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 11:53:50 AM EDT
Does anyone know if the scout/squad (Bush rifle or whatever they call it now)has a chrome lined barrel?
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 1:58:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2002 7:28:05 PM EDT by Derek45]
EXCELLENT RIFLE ! !

I love mine


After you play with one, and it's 7.62NATO ammo, it makes the AR15 seem like a little toy.
( Don't tell My AR's , they get real jelous )
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 2:38:15 PM EDT
I have one with the black fiberglass stock and absolutely love it, not as much as my ARs though ;-)
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 2:57:21 PM EDT
The true warriors weapon..

Love mine, It is a nesecity to own. Get what you can afford. You WILL enjoy it. Dont listen to that Springfeild Arm. cast receiver crap. They are machined from a cast billet, not investment cast, like those CIA M1 garand, BIG DIFFERENCE!
GG
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 3:35:54 PM EDT
No the M1A scout does not have a chrome lined barrel, I know because I just had mine removed and replaced with a brand new GI winchester full size barrel(chrome lined of course)made in Oct 61. It was never on a gun. Looked inside of scout barrel and there is no chrome. The scout is way cool but I love the look of the full size rifle, looks more like the military M-14.

ROCK ON
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 3:55:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 7_62Gunner:
No the M1A scout does not have a chrome lined barrel, I know because I just had mine removed and replaced with a brand new GI winchester full size barrel(chrome lined of course)made in Oct 61. It was never on a gun. Looked inside of scout barrel and there is no chrome. The scout is way cool but I love the look of the full size rifle, looks more like the military M-14.

ROCK ON




What did you do with the 18" scout barrel?
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 3:59:23 PM EDT
I've got a Springfield M1A Standard, and I love it.

The kick of a .308 into your shoulder is so much more satisfying on a caveman level.

It does a number on your ears, though. I can shoot my AK without hearing protection, and occassionally do, but one shot from my M1-A even out in the wide open, and my ears are ringing for several minutes.

Link Posted: 1/4/2002 4:30:25 PM EDT
I understand Springfield Armory is not selling any receivers right now, as they are backed up on orders, but I'm not for sure on that. I bought a receiver from them at a local gun show a couple of months ago and only paid $350.00 for it because it was defective. The defect was a small pit mark on the rear of the receiver where the casting did not fill out completely, so it is only a cosmetic defect and not much of one at that. I installed all USGI parts on it and put it in a NM bedded stock. It shoots like a house of fire and is very accurate, almost on a par with my NM Springfield M1A. I'm trying to get another receiver as I have enough parts to make another complete rifle. They are fun to shoot, but when shooting in high power matches, I've been using my Bushmaster DCM AR15, as my scores improved when I started shooting the "mouse gun". Must be due to my age and my eyes. Well, it's good for an excuse isn't it?
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 4:52:35 PM EDT
I traded the 18" barrel for the GI straight. The guy has a couple of full size barrels and wanted a short one to put on one of his rifles. So I said I want a full size one and we made a deal. I only paid 1250 bones for the scout anyway, used but never fired. I dug the scout, real awsome for CQB stuff, but I kinda like my rifles to look like the original ones as much as possible.


ROCK ON
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 6:22:54 PM EDT
I want to hear more about the synthetic E2 stocks.
I have four E2 stocks and all are walnut.
I have never seen a synthetic.
cpermd
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:17:57 PM EDT
I owned a few M1A's and like an Idiot sold mine since I don't do the DCM matches anymore.

Look over at Gunsamerica.com and checkout the prices. A springfield M1A can be had pretty cheap. You may even get a few mags included and at $50 a pop, good GI'mags are drying up.

If you are not a match shooter, but want a proven .308 battle rifle, checkout the GOOD quality FAL's on the market (Not Century Arms frankenfals). dsarms.com and falparts.com both have great FAL's at super prices. New FAL mags are under $10 each. Rifles under $800. Parts galore.

Both are battle proven rifles and superb platforms for the .308.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 8:39:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2002 9:08:50 PM EDT by Q-Man]
McMillan sells a synthetic pistol grip M1A stock.
www.mcmfamily.com/mfsinc_n/tac.html

I think they cost $300!!! Ouch!

I think these are the stocks being used for the USMC designated markman rifle:



I bought a Standard Springfield Armory, inc. M1A with a black synthetic stock a little over a year ago. I picked it up brand new for $1,011. I was a little disappointed with it. I've heard that Springfield Armory's quality has suffered a bit recently. The rough textured black finish on my stock easily chipped off and started looking abused rather quickly. The gas cylinder was loose on the barrel and the stock didn’t fit very snug to the receiver. It came with a lot of reproduction parts. The only thing that was USGI was the barrel (Winchester 1961). Now I don't know if having reproduction parts is as big a deal as some people make it out to be, but I doubt I'll ever see any of my parts wear out. If they do I can always replace them.

So far I've only shot surplus ammo and Remington ammo I picked up at the store. My best groups were probably greater than 3" at 100 yards. The Remington ammo performed a lot worse than the surplus. I have yet to get around to trying some Federal Gold Metal Match ammo. This shooting has all been done with iron sights from a shooting bench. I'm not too shabby with iron sights, but it's really hard to tell how truly accurate your rifle is without a scope.

I was really hoping to get a rifle that could shoot about 1 MOA, so I decided my M1A would become my new gunsmithing project. First, I bought an ARMS #18 scope mount. Taking off the stripper clip guide from the dovetail joint on the top of the receiver was a pain in the ass. Taking out the roll pin was hard enough, but then the guide wouldn't come out of the dovetail. I finally had to take a brass tap and a 16 ounce hammer and beat my precious rifle like it was a red headed step child. I thought for sure my rifle would break in half. I got it out--no damage done. Putting the mount on was easy enough. (Was this difficulty in removing the stripper clip guide more evidence of poor Springfield Armory, inc. quality?)

I put that mount on there about 5 or 6 months ago and I still haven’t put a scope on it. I've really been researching what scope I want. I've finally decided to go with a Leupold Vari-X III Long Range Tactical M3 with a mill dot reticle. I'm going to buy it next week.

Next I bought a National Match spring rod guide and a gas cylinder shim set. The shims tightened up my gas cylinder just great. I don’t know how much the spring rod guide is helping, but I got it on the recommendation of a guy at my gun club who seemed to know his M14s.
Finally, I put a camouflaged stock on it from Fred’s (www.fredsm14stocks.com).

Now my groups have improved to better than half the size they were before. I can’t wait to get that scope and really seeing what my rifle can do.

Oh yah, I put a Harris swivel bi-pod on it too.

If you’re still reading this long shaggy dog story, you get a prize. Here is a picture of my rifle:
www.geocities.com/crquickstad/guns/Springfield_Armory_M1A.JPG
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 10:50:22 PM EDT
This is all I got so far waitin on some more parts from CMP to show up the rcvr is SA forged barrel is winchester USGI '62 manuf never used stocks came from Freds. Gettin there slow but sure. Got FAL and AR projects I have to attend to, Ya know ?
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 11:01:38 PM EDT
MAN! You guys are a wealth of information. I "thought" I wanted one...........now Im obsessed!
Thanx!
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 6:14:06 AM EDT
An E2 stock has the front handgrip

cpermd
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 7:11:04 AM EDT
cpermd
"An E2 stock has the front handgrip"

Cpermd, Now if you had offered THIS one to trade for my Bushmaster pre-ban lower, we may have come to terms!! ;>)

Link Posted: 1/5/2002 7:54:51 AM EDT
That is it,just in a different stock.
cpermd
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 9:06:05 AM EDT
Q-man, I had the same problem taking the clip guide out of my Armscorp receiver. I got the pin out, after hammering it back and forth a couple of times, but no go on getting the guide out of the dovetail. My senses got thre best of me and I realized that hammering on my receiver in my garage with a claw hammer was not the smartest thing to do. Since I was taking it to the smith to get it bedded into a new stock I figured I'd let him pound on it. At least he'll know how to fix it if he breaks it!!
I got a new McMillin M3 stock to use. It was left over as an over run on a govt contract. An ugly thing (sand brown) it cost me $400. I put a cammo paint scheme on it, and tok it to my gunsmith to bed for me. I bought the rifle used and it turns out he is the one that built it. He is a topnotch guy and I am sure it will be a real shooter. NM thruout, with the loving touch of a guy that does things one at a time. His name is George Gardner of GA Precision in Kansas city. I'd recommend him without reservation for any work.
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 9:43:50 AM EDT
CPERMD,there is a guy named Russle Comacho out of Texas making a synthetic E2 stock. It is'nt an exact copy though, more like an AR profile.The butt stock looks just like an AR.The guy advertises in SGN all of the time.
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