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Posted: 12/31/2001 1:59:48 PM EDT
The Fedral Ban states:

B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of -

(i) a folding or telescopic stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and
(v) a grenade launcher;


The key here is "bayonet mount". I am thinking that if you permanently attached the bayonet by welding it to the barrel (without a 'mount' or 'lug'), then you can circumvent this law.

Does anyone have any information on this. Has this come up before?

Personally, I would gladly permanently attach a bayonet to my AR. I think no assault rifle should EVER not have a bayonet attached. If you are worried about cutting things during transport, put a metal frog on the bayonet.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 2:06:07 PM EDT

I can't comment on the merits of your "loophole".
But I always kind of wondered about two of my preban rifles that *can* wear a bayonet.
The HK has no "lug", you take a plug out of the end of the cocking tube and the handle of the bayo locks in there. And the Preban Poly AK I have just locks on the front sight base, no real lug either.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 2:06:15 PM EDT
I doubt it would fly, but we would never really know until it was tested out in the courts. So go ahead and let us all know, either way, how it turns out.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 2:06:43 PM EDT
You need to see a specialist about your condition...
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 3:35:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2001 3:36:46 PM EDT by ArmaLiter]
If you were to use words as a way of getting around the laws, then you could say that a "pistol grip" could be used on your rifle, because your rifle is not a pistol. You can say it's a "ergonomic comfort grip". Sounds less like an assault weapon feature.

What also gets me is that your rifle is allowed to have a ???GRENADE LAUNCHER??? as long as it has only one of the other "assault weapon" features.

So basically I can have a stock Mini-14 with a GRENADE LAUNCHER, but until I add a pistol grip, my Mini-14 is not considered yet an assault weapon, according to the law. Excuse me, but wouldn't anything with a grenade launcher be considered more of an assault weapon before anything else with a detachable magazine, pistol grip, flash suppressor, telescopic-stock and bayonet mount combined?

ArmaLiter
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 3:41:13 PM EDT
How about use ducttape to attach a bayonet to your barrel? Would that constitute as a "bayonet lug"?
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 3:47:08 PM EDT
DONT FORGET YOU ALREADY HAVE A PISTOL GRIP,IF YOU ADD A BAYONET LUG,THAT WILL BE 2 ITEMS AND IT WILL BE ILLEGAL.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 3:52:20 PM EDT
Just remember, Capone didn't get caught for murder/prostitution/gambling, he got nailed with a pety IRS tax evasion.

They WILL find a way to nail you. Best to just play along with the rules. Let someone else test the theory. I think it means "A mounted bayonet" Any attempt to mount a bayonet is considered a mounting device for a bayonet, and thus a mounting lug.

I'd rather mount a 12 gauge small barrel pump underneath it myself.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 5:33:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2002 5:36:30 AM EDT by Quarterbore]
I think if you look at the literal words... "a bayonet mount"... and consider that the abuility to mount a bayonet is implied in the law......

Then if you weld an M9 Bayonet onto a post ban M4 Shorty that you have violated the intention of the law by having mounted the bayonet.

Now, have you considered building an AR-15 upper with NO GAS TUBE! This becomes a BOLT ACTION and you can use a colapsable stock, bayonet lug, flash supressor etc,... as with a BOLT ACTION the crime bill does not apply!

Plus in about 10-minutes you COULD replace the gas tube to allow you to sell the upper or use it with a Pre-Ban lower! If I had a post-ban lower and wanted to look as evil as possible, that would be the way I would go! Hell, this is the ONLY way you could use a silencer with an POST BAN AR-15 and it would be quiter because of the BOLT ACTION operation!
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 6:21:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sfitter777:
DONT FORGET YOU ALREADY HAVE A PISTOL GRIP,IF YOU ADD A BAYONET LUG,THAT WILL BE 2 ITEMS AND IT WILL BE ILLEGAL.



You're grasp of the obvious is amazing!
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 8:48:34 AM EDT
Permanently mounting a bayonet to your gun? You If you have to add 12" somewhere, this would be the wrong place, it will just get in the way.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 4:02:36 PM EDT

Quarterbore,
I do like that bolt-action option, good idea.

Warlord,
A bayonet does not add 12" to the rifle. It makes my AR as long as an FAL (with a brake) or an M1A, so it is NO problem.


Sifter777:
"DONT FORGET YOU ALREADY HAVE A PISTOL GRIP,IF YOU ADD A BAYONET LUG,THAT WILL BE 2 ITEMS AND IT WILL BE ILLEGAL"

Perhaps you didn't read my initial post closely. The whole point is that there would be no traditional bayonet 'lug'. The law states that you must have a 'mount'. My QUESTION is what constitutes a 'mount'. Is it ANYTHING that attaches a bayonet to your rifle? What if you could keep a bayonet in the buttstock? See my point?


Lets assume I put on one of those GoGoGadget AR15 pistol grip err, thingies. Then I attach a bayonet permanently. This means that I only have 1 point, assuming that I mount the bayonet in the traditional manner!

I see three options:

1) weld the bayonet to the barrel on a regular post ban gun. This is only legal if the ATF interprets 'mount' to only mean 'lug', or some device.

2) use a non-conspicuously extending pistol grip and a regular bayonet lug. This is definately legal, but you must be comfortable with the pistol grip compromise.

3) same as option 2 but permanently attaching bayonet. Definately legal, but least practical.
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