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Posted: 12/22/2001 8:40:36 AM EDT
I'm looking to buy 3 within the next 6 months.

#1 I'd like a good long lasting dependable and accurate military style rifle (I'm guessing the AR), if the AR would be a nice choice - which configuration? I like the bushmaster A3 20" heavy bbl with carry handle included, but don't know if it is a good choice ($800, local shop). I've been looking at cheaper brands, but have been told as the price decreases so does the quality ($495, colt style on CIA reciever from SOG).

#2 A good sniper type rifle. Probably a .308 Bolt action. What's good? I've have my eye on a Ruger 77 mark 2 With some kind of stainless grey coating and a laminated wood stock($485, local shop).

#3 A good concealable pistol. I haven't done much research here, I like the power of the 44mag, but have been told that a 380 or 9mm is better for it's small size.

So, what do you think? If my selections are good, are the prices? If my selections could use improvement, what do you recommend?

Thanks in advance!
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 8:51:16 AM EDT
$800 is not bad for the Bushmaster. It can be ordered from somewhere else for a little cheaper, but after you pay shipping and trnasfer fees it would probably be $800 anyway. For concealed carry I personally would not suggest a 44 mag. 9mm, 40S&W or 45 like a Glock 26, 27 or 30 which are very small guns that hold 9 and 10 rounds respectively. As for the sniper rifle, I have no suggestions. That is an obsession I have not yet reached.
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 8:55:08 AM EDT
How about a nice preban COLT AR?
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 8:55:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 9:32:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2001 9:29:22 AM EDT by Gun_Fanatic]
For the military type rifle, I want .223 and good quality. You have justified my suspicions and I think I'll be going with the 20" A3 if possible, but maybe the A2. I'm going to stick with the recommended brands colt, Bushy, Rock River. I figured there was a "better than the rest" brand. I think I'll stick with iron sights (no scopes or target aquizition aiding devices)

For #2, it doesn't have to be 308 or the ruger, I'm just looking for suggestions on a "reach out and touch someone(not that I would)"(super accurate) type rifle.

For price ranges I'd like to keep each of them under $900 each or $2000 for all 3(not including a scope for #2)

Thanks for the replys, this seems to be a great board. I have been reading your Q&A's for a few days now and I'm loving every minute of it. I found another wonderful board for another obsession of mine, and if you are interested in offroading, vehicle repair and diagnosis, and stuff like that check out http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads//wwwthreads.pl?Cat=

I've got to admit, I tried to talk to the guys at AK-47.net about all of this first. Well lets just say I'm glad I found you guys!
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 9:42:03 AM EDT
#1. Armalite, or Bushmaster in a standard A2.

#2. Savage. Check their web site. American Rifleman reported their bolt rifle the most accurate out of the box. Remington has gone down in quality over the years and Winchester has hit bottom and never bounced. Brownings are ok but you pay to much. Get the Savage and you'll have enough left over for a good after market trigger and stock (and scope).

#3 Sig P239 in .357 Sig or .40 S&W and buy the slide and barrel kit to convert to 9mm.

All under $900 each and top of the line stuff.
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 9:59:29 AM EDT
1. Bushie 16"
2. Go with Halfcocked
3. .40 Sig, H&K, and of COURSE GLOCK!

I like the .40 better then the .357Sig, not because of ballistics, but its cheaper, and easer to reload for (straight walled cartridge)
All under $900
Art in KY
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 10:06:12 AM EDT
#1 Bushmaster you described is a good choice.

#2 The Savage 110FP/10FP plus a good scope.

#3 I like my pistoles big, so I have no recommendation on this one.
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 10:11:24 AM EDT
1.Bushmaster

2.AR-50 Why not a 50 cal? Good knock down power.

3.Glock 23
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 10:12:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 10:20:46 AM EDT
An AR10 do double duty for both (1.) and (2.)
Particularly if you get an AR10T Carbine.

For (3.) Concealed Carry. It sort of depends on the climate and social setting in the area that you live. If you life in a very hot area and think you will be in a T-Shirt and Shorts then an KelTec P32 is the way to go.

If you will be wearing a Jacket much of the time, a Ruger SP101 DAO with a 2-1/4" barrel chambered in .357 Magnum is a good (though heavy) choice.
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 10:35:03 AM EDT
#1) AR is a great choice. Personally, I'd go with a standard 20" H-Bar (I'm not crazy about the detachable sights). Stick with Bushy, DPMS, Rock River or Armlite smd you'll be happy.

#2) I would say /308 is absolutely the way to go. For bolt guns, Savage, Ruger, or Winchester all have controlled round feeding and offer good values. Also, consider a DSA medium contour FAL. All good options.

#3) Again personally, I would recommend a 9mm or .40 S&W. Good capacity, good power, reasonable size, outstanding availablity and choice of arm. Stick with good quality brands, SIG, S&W, Beretta, and Taurus come to mind.
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 10:49:15 AM EDT
1. M15A4
2. AR-10T
3. 1911 compact.
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 10:51:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 11:12:16 AM EDT
I agree with everyone else on #1 and #3, although I would avoid the .380 for caliber and move up to at least 9mm. If you feel the .380 is fine, then at least look at a 9X18 Makarov. It is one step above the .380, not quite a 9X19 Luger. A good carry would be a Makarov PM in 9X18 makarov. You can't go wrong with a mak!

As for #2, I am not impressed with the Savage 110's. I have shot a few that shoot well. I have also shot a few that didn't. One that shot 4"+ groups at 100yds.

I would choose a Remington 700 in what ever caliber you feel is best. Sorry, haven't seen a decline in thier quality over the 20+ years I have owned/shot them. I have yet to see a Remington 700 that would not shoot 1" groups and under, with a little tuning; most right out of the box! I own four Rem 700's right now. Every one shoots under an inch groups at 100yds. My father is a 700 fanatic; he owns somewhere around 12 or 15 in various calibers from .22-250 to .416Rem mag. Triggers on the 700's are easily adjusted for creep and weight. Finally, if you ever decide to sell a Remington 700, you will get much more of your money out of it than the Savage 110's. BTW, most custom rifles are built on Reminton 700 actions, how many are built on Savages'?

Just my very opinionated opinion!
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 11:53:32 AM EDT
Here's a guy who spent $800 on a brand new Remington 700 PSS and the freakin' barrel was bent!

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=80170

I'd go with a Savage 10FP for choice #2. I get sub-MOA groups out of mine easy with match ammo, and it's still being broke in. The groups get smaller every time I shoot it.

For #1 get a AR15. Bushmaster is a good choice, as is RRA, Armalite, Olympic Arms, or Colt.
For #3 get a 9mm minimum. I'm sorta partial to a .45 cal. If you're not sure what you want, see if there's a range close to you that rents guns and try before you buy. Or you could hook up with someone on this board who lives close to you.
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 5:03:57 PM EDT
My recs...

*Rifle:
AR-16 carbine with 16" barrel and a short Quad-Rail forearm. The makes mentioned above are all good.

*Sniper Rifle:
CETME or other HK-91/G3-type rifle in .308 - or an FN FAL. Or if you want something for hyper long range (and have lots of cash), an XM-107 Wind Runner or a Stoner SR-50 (both .50 BMGs). The Ruger 77 Mk. II is good but for the price it's a bit much for a bolt-action - at least in my opinion. The CETME costs about $200 less than the Ruger 77 and it's a semi-auto. 20 round mags for it are about $8 from Shotgun News.

*Handgun:
Colt, Rock Island, Griffon, Para-Ordnance, or Auto-Ordnance 1911-type pistols in .45 ACP or a .357 Magnum revolver with a 7 or 8-shot cylinder. A Taurus 627 Tracker (7-shot .357) with a 4" barrel is a good choice. There's also the 8-shot .357 Taurus 608. Then there are also SIGs and Glocks (as mentioned before) which are always good. Nothing less powerful than 9mm is adequate for defense. Anything more powerful than .45 ACP (namely .44 Magnum, .454 Casull, .50 Action Express, and .50 Maximum) runs the risk of over-penetration. I'm not sure about the ballistics of the .38 Casull. If you opt for a .357 for defense, always load it with heavy-grain/high-dram jacketed or semi-jacketed hollow points, Black Talons, Golden Sabers, frangibles, or any rapid-expansion/low-penetration type ammo.

Oh, and if you don't have one already, you'll also need a shotgun. No arsenal is complete without a combat shotgun. Anything that takes detachable box mags that hold at least 10 rounds is supreme but harder to find than standard fixed tube shotguns. I recommend pumps above autoloaders because autoloaders are more suseptable to external elements like weather and whatnot. They also handle differently depending on the type of ammo you use. Pumps, on the other hand, will function the same regardless of what type of ammo you use and regardless of what kind of weather you're experiencing. Naturally, for combat, you need something reasonably compact. Unfortunately, the shortest you can go legally is an 18" barrel with a 26" overall length. The Mossberg 500/590/600, Remington 870, Winchester 1200/1300, and Ithaca 37/87 are probably the best choices as far as fixedtube guns go. Of all of them, I tend to be a Mossberg advocate. Also, you want at least a 5-round (4+1) capacity and a barrel no longer than 20" (keep in mind that you don't want the mag longer than the barrel).

Hope that helps.
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 5:21:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TylerDurden:
Ok Gun_Fanatic, here are my suggestions:

#1 A good pre-ban AR15, carbine or rifle, your choice.

#2 Remington LTR in .308.

#3 A Sig Sauer P239 or Glock 26.

Good luck with whatever you choose!


ditto


Tyler

Link Posted: 12/22/2001 6:03:05 PM EDT
personally I don't beleive in that "which ONE should I buy". Buy different ones for different situations. For concealed carry I use a Glock 27, a kel-tec P-11 (yes it's cheap, but it doesn't cost me much to replace if it's sitting in an evidence room) and a S&W m66 .357. These are for carrying or in the car. I have an HK USP .40 with insite lite in the nightstand and a Kimber Classic Stainless downstairs.

I have an AR-15 A1 16" preban with both collapsable and conventional stocks. Which one I put on depends on what I'm doing. It's a PWA.

I also have a Nat Match M1A1 which can easily serve both as a sniper or MBR.

I have a Rem 700 vs in .308 that is a tackdriver if I need it.

The key is that they are all quality and can be counted on (with the exception of the Kel-Tec, but that is a special case).

In aquiring and selling off different guns the one thing that has stuck with me is that I've never regretted buying quality. Just don't get in the mindset that you can only have one gun for this or one gun for that. No gun does everything well in every situation.

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