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Posted: 12/17/2001 2:23:46 PM EST
Need some advice on a handgun, considering purchasing a Glock 20, any opinions? This will be my first handgun...
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 2:31:01 PM EST
Why are you interested in a Glock 20?

It's not a bad pistol, but it's an unusual choice for a first handgun.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 2:41:59 PM EST
McUzi?

We all know how much the immortal McUzi loved the 10mm, especially in the Glock 20.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 2:45:10 PM EST
1911 all the way.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 2:45:17 PM EST
The 10MM cartridge is not one I would recommend for a first time pistol owner for a few reasons.

Recoil is not unbearable but can be fairly stout even on the Glock platform.

Ammo is usually hard to find but you can easily order in bulk from numerous web businesses. I would recommend Ammoman.com regardless of caliber.

A model 19 Glock is what I consider to be an ideal starter for any new handgun owner provided they observe basic safety rules like "finger off the trigger".

Cheap ammo, low recoil compact pistol but large enough it is still very shootable and it's a Glock!

Buy the 19 first, that way you can always get the 20 later.

What's not to like about that?
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 2:48:54 PM EST
Ok,
First let me say that,
GLOCKS RULE Period!!!
Some people talk bad about the tactical tupperware but the thousands and of law enforcement departments should be proof enough that a GLOCK is tough to beat.
It is one of the easiest guns to work on and customize if you are interested in doing so.
It is also one of the few guns that the magazines had the balls to shoot under water.
Basically it is a proven battle tested weapon with few problems.
The only thing I would suggest is to go with a common caliber like,
9mm
40 s&w
or the only real man stopper out there the,
45 ACP.
Which was proven in 1903 to be the minimun caliber needed to stop a determined opponent.
My self I have 2 right now a model 21 (the full size 45) and a model 30 (the compact 45).
The 21 holds 13 and the 30 holds 10.
The 30 will also take the 21 mags.
I looked at the model 36 the slim 45. and said it's not worth losing 4 rounds for just over 1/8" in width when the rest of the dimensions are the same.So the 36 gets my Thumbs down.
Sorry GLOCK.

That's just my opinion as a law enforcement officer who carries a model 30 everyday.

Hope this helps and good luck.
GSX
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 2:51:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2001 2:47:14 PM EST by DarkHelmet]

Originally Posted By Maynard:
The 10MM cartridge is not one I would recommend for a first time pistol owner for a few reasons.

Recoil is not unbearable but can be fairly stout even on the Glock platform.

Ammo is usually hard to find but you can easily order in bulk from numerous web businesses. I would recommend Ammoman.com regardless of caliber.

A model 19 Glock is what I consider to be an ideal starter for any new handgun owner provided they observe basic safety rules like "finger off the trigger".

Cheap ammo, low recoil compact pistol but large enough it is still very shootable and it's a Glock!

Buy the 19 first, that way you can always get the 20 later.

What's not to like about that?



I agree with Maynard and GSX (I too have a Glock 21 and Glock 30 that I carry daily.


I very much agree... if you really want more power than a 9mm then choose either a Glock 23 (.40 S&W) or a Glock 30 (.45 ACP). Stay away from the Glock 20, 29 (compact 10mm) or the 31, 32, 33 line of .357 SIG. I'm not knocking those fine Glocks or thier calibers at all, but for the reasons stated above (recoil, ammo availability and price, etc.), chose a "common" caliber of 9, 40, or 45 for your first handgun.

If you have a large hand then go with a 17 (9mm full size) 21 (.45ACP) or 22 (.40). For the best all around in Defense, Concealed carry, and Plinkin' chose a compact frame G19, G23, or G30) and for really small package choose a subcompact G26, 27 in 9mm or .40.

Hope that helps.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 2:56:19 PM EST
Glock is the only pistol that I have ever owned that work right out of the box. For years I have been a die-hard 1911 shooter, until a buddy of mine got a deal on a pair of G22's (.40 S&W). He kept one and I got the second. At first I hated it........but it was all mind set. Once I got an open mind, I truly enjoyed the pistol. I then went out and bought a G23 and G27.

The 1911 is still my favorite pistol, but the Glock has been 100% user friendly. The proof is I have no spare Glock parts and drawers full of 1911 parts.

OSA

Link Posted: 12/17/2001 2:58:02 PM EST
OK full disclosure: I have a Springfield 1911A1. So here goes I handled a Glock for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Felt like a cheap plastic gun. The gap between the slide and the reciever (at least I think that is the right term) was uneven. Definitely glad I got a 1911.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 3:06:38 PM EST
The Glock 21 .45 ACP was my first gun. It's the same frame as the 20. Just make sure the gun fits your hand! With the double stack mag, this is one brick of a gun. I also have a Beretta 92FS and it feels much better. If the G20 IS too big for you, you might want to try to find a Colt Delta. It's a 1911 style 10mm if I recall correctly. Mmmm, I want one of those now too.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 3:10:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By gsx678:
It is one of the easiest guns to work on and customize if you are interested in doing so.



I like Glocks as much as any 1911 fan possibly could, but that statement is just bullshit. Working on a Glock is pretty easy, not that you'd ever need to, but customizing is not the least bit easy.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 3:18:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dale007:
OK full disclosure: I have a Springfield 1911A1. So here goes I handled a Glock for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Felt like a cheap plastic gun. The gap between the slide and the reciever (at least I think that is the right term) was uneven. Definitely glad I got a 1911.



It's ok, I understand that you choose to mock what you don't understand. I have done the same thing on occasion.

Cosmetic beauty is nice but given the choice between the aesthetic beauty of a 1911 or the funtional brilliance of the Glock, I will and have chosen Glock over any other design. It works and has proven completely dependable thus far for me. I can not say the same for the 1911's I used to own.

Next time you go and "handle" the Glock try shooting it instead of just fondling it.

You might be willing to overlook some of the cosmetic shortcomings after you have actually shot one.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 3:26:48 PM EST
Look if it is your first handgun, then a GLock, I say HELL NO. A Glock is for an experienced pistol shooter. Which if it is your first handgun, than you are not this. I say no semi for you. You should start with a revolver and get to know it. Then move up to a semi, But not a Glock. YOU need some think that is user friendly; after all, you don’t want to shoot yourself. Now get to know your new semi and find out all you need to know, and then in a couple years after you have shoot the hell out of it and had a few problems that you worked out (jams, stove pipes, and failure to go into batter) you know the usual stuff. And if you still fill the need to own a Glock, I say go for it. I own one and carry it every day, just like a second hand.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 3:41:52 PM EST
AKAR15

Why are you buying a handgun? Until people know that, how can we recommend anything? For example, if it is plinking I would suggest a Ruger Target .22. Cheap ammo, fun, accurate, no recoil. If it is for concealed carry, perhaps a Glock 30 (my favorite), but perhaps not if you are small statured. If it is just a house defense gun, perhaps a full size weapon. We need more data.

Also, we don't know what size person you are. If you are a 6'6" 250 lb weightlifter, maybe a G20 is for you. If you are 5'6" 130 lbs, maybe not. I would second the thoughts a first handgun should be in a more widely used caliber. Depending on your size and the size weapon you choose, 9MM, 45 ACP or .40 S&W are probably the best.

Even after knowing these things, real advise is hard to give. Different guns fit different people.

For example, I don't much care for Beretta. Doesn't fit. Glocks and 1911s fit me better. And Sigs are also fine handguns. Doesn't mean Beretta is crap, just doesn't fit ME.

Best advise, decide what you want it for, then after people give a list of suggestions, go to a range that rents and try some. Better if you can go with someone you know who can help you properly handle/control them.

Whatever you do, stick to the better brand names. Cheap handguns SUCK. You want something that will feed and function reliably. Glocks, Berettas, Sigs, H&Ks, Springfield Armory, are a few of the better manufacturers that stand behind their product. If you choose a revolver, I prefer S&W (I know, traitors, etc).

Good luck.

James
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 3:51:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By mrassII:
Look if it is your first handgun, then a GLock, I say HELL NO. A Glock is for an experienced pistol shooter. Which if it is your first handgun, than you are not this. I say no semi for you. You should start with a revolver and get to know it. Then move up to a semi, But not a Glock. YOU need some think that is user friendly; after all, you don’t want to shoot yourself. Now get to know your new semi and find out all you need to know, and then in a couple years after you have shoot the hell out of it and had a few problems that you worked out (jams, stove pipes, and failure to go into batter) you know the usual stuff. And if you still fill the need to own a Glock, I say go for it. I own one and carry it every day, just like a second hand.



Revolver: Pull trigger, goes bang. No manual safety.

Glock Pistol: Pull trigger, goes bang. No manual safety.

Safety rules for all firearms

#1 All guns are loaded.

#2 Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.

#3 Finger off the trigger until you are on target.

#4 Be sure of your target and what is behind your target.



The manual of arms is different between a revolver and an auto but with a bit of instruction and practice either can be a fine first time weapon. Practice and safety awareness are essential with either.

Link Posted: 12/17/2001 4:26:09 PM EST
I've decided not to succumb to the 1911 vs Glock vs. whatever debates. I love both the Glock and the 1911 platforms. For tactical and defense duties, I would pick up the Glock first, though. Tough as nails, reliable to the core, and awesome accuracy. I am by no means an expert marksman but I can empty my G21, as fast as I can unload the gun, into 2-3 separate targets at 30 feet, and still group 3" on each target.

As for a G20 - boy, I lust after that gun. I can surely buy it but, am having a major debate with myself that I don't want to get into another caliber right now. If it were me, I would not buy the G20 for my first pistol. If the size of the G20 fits your hand well, I would suggest a G21 - it is the same size frame, much more abundant ammo so you can get a lot of practice, and the hi-cap mags are a bit cheaper and easier to find.

If it points well, if it fits your hand, and if you want it, just go for it. I've never gone wrong with a Glock - have a small collection and counting.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 4:30:41 PM EST
My $0.02:

When I was a cop I carried a glock. It was the handgun I first learned to shoot well. Very reliable and 16 rounds of .40 is nice to have, though I never needed it. Problem is, glock ergonomics just sucks, at least for me. I honestly never liked shooting the damn thing, although I did fairly frequently (though probably not compared to many here) When I got out I agonized over selling it, finally did, and bought a kimber. I've not regretted it. I love shooting my kimber. 1911 Egronomics is supurb. Next to my Smith 629 it's the most accurate handgun in my safe and the best semi auto pistol I've ever shot. Sam Browning was a genious. 1911's can be extremely reliable, though some may take some tinkering. I think they are second to none in terms of ergonomics.

Bottom line, as stated above, is to try out several makes/brands before you buy. Try a Beretta, a sig, and an HK also if you can afford to do so. A glock is a great first gun. It is extremely safe if you obey the cardinal rules of gun safety. It is reasonably accurate, nicely priced (especially compaered to a sig, hk, or a nice* 1911), and extremely reliable.

And keep in mind that there will never be a consensous about which handgun is the best. But you can find the best one for you. And stay away from 10mm. Go with a .40 or (preferably) a .45, for the reasons cited above.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 4:36:17 PM EST
Thanks for all the replies...

I am looking at the Glock because a buddy of mine has one and loves it. I also would like to have something with some stopping power, this gun will be used for self-defense as well as to take camping on our four wheelers. And since I live in Alaska grizzlys are a consideration. As for me I am 5'10 190lbs. so this gun should not be a problem.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 4:49:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By AKAR15:
Thanks for all the replies...

I am looking at the Glock because a buddy of mine has one and loves it. I also would like to have something with some stopping power, this gun will be used for self-defense as well as to take camping on our four wheelers. And since I live in Alaska grizzlys are a consideration. As for me I am 5'10 190lbs. so this gun should not be a problem.



And where do we send the flowers to when you get your ass ate by a big ass bear.LMOA@U, You want a Glock 10mm for in bear country. Buddy, You better get a 454 Cusaul or 475 Lin. Just something that will stop a Mack truck. I have read that some people have been ran over even after the blast from a 12 ga shotgun with slugs, at less than 10 feet while a bear was charging
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 4:51:32 PM EST
My first handgun was a glock 23. I love it . So, get what you want.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 4:56:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By mrassII:
And where do we send the flowers to when you get your ass ate by a big ass bear.LMOA@U, You want a Glock 10mm for in bear country. Buddy, You better get a 454 Cusaul or 475 Lin. Just something that will stop a Mack truck. I have read that some people have been ran over even after the blast from a 12 ga shotgun with slugs, at less than 10 feet while a bear was charging



My buddy that goes camping with us already has the 454 cusaul, don't wan't something that extreme. I DONT go looking for trouble with bears. Just need some backup....
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 5:01:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By AKAR15:
My buddy that goes camping with us already has the 454 cusaul, don't wan't something that extreme. I DONT go looking for trouble with bears. Just need some backup....



In that case, I think you need a North American .22 and some bear mace. I know that bear mace works good. I've been blasted with it.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 5:03:44 PM EST
My first pistol was a Ruger P89, then a Beretta 92F. I sold the Ruger (though I enjoyed shooting it) and I just bought a Glock 30.

Before you drop $400 - $800 on a pistol try out several different types so you can get a feel for what you like. You may not like the Glock at all, or you may love it. But definitely try some others out. I think I'm falling for a HK USP....
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 5:03:56 PM EST
Yes but if you are in Grizzly country you best have something. You might not be looking, But gurarantee you this, He is a big mean eat you ass up with one bite bear and he is look for trouble. So dont take for granted that all because you are not looking that you will not find it. And if you are taking a #1 or #2 then you might think about what you are going to do if he finds you when you are not looking for him.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 5:04:32 PM EST
>>I am looking at the Glock because a buddy of mine has one and loves it. I also would like to have something with some stopping power, this gun will be used for self-defense as well as to take camping on our four wheelers. And since I live in Alaska grizzlys are a consideration. As for me I am 5'10 190lbs. so this gun should not be a problem.<<

OK. This helps. You are large enough for a heavier caliber, and concealment is not an issue. So, a full size weapon is right.

As far as bears go, I don't think there is much to talk about. You already know a grizzley might not be fazed by any handgun. But there are other two legged critters out there that could cause a problem.

Just as a thought (assuming money isn't a huge factor) have you considered a Desert Eagle? I think ballistically, the .44 Mag DE packs more punch than a 10 MM (any experts feel free to correct me). And it is a semi so you might actually stop a bear with it in an emergency. For the smaller two legged marauders the .44 Mag will definitely do the trick.

But if money is a factor, you might be thinking the right line with the G20. It also "might" dissuade a bear, and will work for defense. I do like the concept of Glock for this purpose as tupperware does not rust or scratch. I doubt this weapon will be treated as a collectable in the wilds.

Still, it would be nice if you could shoot one first. Just to see if you like the feel of it. What Glock does your buddy have and have you shot it? That would help.

James
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 5:11:55 PM EST
There is a report of a man eating bear in Alaska. DNR report: Do not startle a grizzly, to do this wear bells on your shoes and carry pepper spray.

Asked: how do you know if a man eating Grizzly is in your area.

DNR Officer: You will find Grizzly shit with little bells in it and usual reck of pepper spray.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 7:22:54 PM EST
-HK or SIG-
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 7:27:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By mrassII:
There is a report of a man eating bear in Alaska. DNR report: Do not startle a grizzly, to do this wear bells on your shoes and carry pepper spray.

Asked: how do you know if a man eating Grizzly is in your area.

DNR Officer: You will find Grizzly shit with little bells in it and usual reck of pepper spray.



Very True,

There was a story on the news here a few years ago on a test they did with pepper spray. Sprayed it all over a tent and waited. Well they got pictures of a grizzly rolling around in it like a cat with catnip. Seems they like the stuff....


I'll have to look at the 44 desert eagle. I haven't decided on anything yet, still open to ideas......


Maybe I should get this instead
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 7:54:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By AKAR15:
Need some advice on a handgun, considering purchasing a Glock 20, any opinions? This will be my first handgun...




And you want self defense for grizzlys?
I recommend the the Ruger SS SA Super Blackhawk in .44M (with optional 22mm mace launcher).

Easy to operate and you'll look cool at the range.

Link Posted: 12/17/2001 7:56:11 PM EST
Go with what you like. I found the trigger on Glocks to be very poor. Also, the grip angle doesn't fit me.

My favorite gun is my Kimber Custom CDP:

www.kimberamerica.com/CDP_Series.htm
Spectacular accuracy. Excellent reliability.

I also like my Sig P220, but I love my Kimber Custom CDP 1911.

If you don't want a single action, try a Sig. They are high quality guns.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 9:17:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By jimmybcool:
>> As for me I am 5'10 190lbs. so this gun should not be a problem.<<

You are large enough for a heavier caliber,

James



Not to pick on you or Jimmy, but a point of clarification is in order here - your physical size doesn't have anything to do with why a 10MM is not a good choice for newbie handgunner.

Learning to shoot and rapidily come back to the target and eventially to shoot double taps, learning not to flinch (you know - if you are shooting low and left - right handed shooter)

This is why many are advocating a 9mm.

Ammo costs, and availability are two other concerns.

FWIW - Gizz? Handgun? Only to blow your own brains out. 12ga. Breneke slugs. A lil luck too.

Still want a side arm? Think about an HK .45 Full size - shoot .45 ACP for two legged critters and .45 Super for 4 legged. .45 Super is very close to .44 Mag. No mods required to the weapon.

Good luck, have fun.
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 6:50:39 AM EST
SIX,

Good point. Might learn some bad habits with the 10 MM. Or not be able to afford enough practice with the cost of ammo.

Something you wrote piqued (nice 50 cent word that, huh?) my curiousity. 45 Super in an H&K. Could you expand? I don't understand the dif between 45 ACP and 45 Super. How can a HK handle the dif velocity/pressure. Very confused.

James
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 7:15:35 AM EST
Learning to shoot with big calibers is really a personal thing too. I learned with a .44 mag super blackhawk, but I have seen ppl that will consistently buck a .22. As for make, I hated Glocks till I played with one the other day. Now I got an itch. Love my 1911 to death. Sig P220 still feels better in my hand, one of those you really dont need sights, it just points there. It is an EXTREMELY individual thing. My suggestion is dont buy a Glock just because your buddy loves his. Try as many handguns as you can get your hands on that fit your requirements with an open mind and then decide. I would still bet in a year you find one that feels better. Always happens to me anyway. Oh yeah, a Colt Delta is one hell of a handfull compared to the 1911....double stack mags.
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 9:14:08 AM EST
I have a 23C (.40 S&W) and I really like the compensated barrel. In addition, it's the midsize model and it fits my hand like it was made for it. I put the 3.5 pound trigger pull in it and that really improved the trigger response. The other nice thing is that you can put a .357 barrel in it and basically get 2 pistols in one. All-in-all, I'm very satisfied with my Glock.
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 9:43:59 AM EST
.45 Super

From Ace's site:

185 Gr @ up to 1400 FPS
230 Gr @ up to 1200 FPS


From Texas Ammo:

muzzle velocity of 1200fps with the Hornady 230 grain XTP-JHP and 230 grain FMJ-FP and a whopping 529 foot pounds of energy at 100 yardsout of the Springfield V-16 (6" ported barrel).

Want more info:

www.google.com ".45 Super"

www.hkpro.com
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 8:43:54 AM EST
i won't discuss which caliber of Glock to buy, as that's been handled quite thoroughly. but for the other question, to Glock or not to Glock, i've found that it's an entirely personal preference. some like 'em. some don't, think they're ugly (what a reason!) or that the balance or fit is off. but for quality/reliability/accuracy Glock is a fine choice.

it really boils down to personal preference and comfort level with the firearm. but i don't think you can go wrong with Glock if that's what you're leaning towards.

as an aside, should you choose the .45 caliber, i'd recommend the 1911 over the Glock.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 9:06:40 AM EST
If you like the glock, get it. if your primary reason is for bear, try a ruger super blackhawk in your choice of barrel length and use the left over cash to buy a reloader.

A gun for defense against 2 legged predators can be almost anything you like, but for bear, you really need to up the power level. a .44 can be loaded really really hot or really realy mild. it is VERY versitile.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 9:29:24 AM EST
I enjoy my Glock 20. If you reload, you can water it down to 40S&W type velocities. But, I think the 10mm should always be full power and it's like any other gun, you have to practice to use it well. High caps for the G20 are salty ($110+) and one of the other calibers will be more reasonable if you want the big mags.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 12:11:19 PM EST
find a range which rents handguns. they will most likely have a few different types of handguns to choose besides different calibers. i have a glock G-23 but my next handgun will be the H&K USP compact(40s&w). what works for some might not work for you, so try some out if you can you will be much happier.
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