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Posted: 12/15/2001 2:07:26 PM EDT
The Weekly Standard
12/14/2001
Annie, Get Which Gun?
The M-16 versus AK-47 debate rages on.
Experts step in to set the record straight.
by Bo Crader

www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/000/681mougq.asp
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 5:24:04 PM EDT
Whatever happened to just buying the one you like?
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 5:44:40 PM EDT

This nightmarish situation--hitting the enemy dead center only to have him get back up--is explained largely by Howe's ammunition, according to William Atwater, director of the U.S. Army Ordnance Museum and a technical adviser to Bowden on "Black Hawk Down." The ammunition used by Howe has a "green-tipped tungsten carbide penetrator," Atwater explains. These specialized rounds are "heavier than normal rounds, much more stable, and designed for penetrating steel helmets or going through flak jackets at 500 yards." Alan Killinger, a museum specialist also at the U.S. Army Ordnance Museum, elaborates in grim detail: Standard M-16 ammunition "enters the body and stands up, turns on its side, rips through flesh and organs," and tears a gaping exit wound. Green-tipped rounds, because they have a more stable flight, generally won't tumble inside the body at distances of less than 300 yards.



Gee...doesn´t this sound...wait...umm..BULLSHIT

Link Posted: 12/15/2001 5:58:20 PM EDT
hows that sound like bullshit?
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 6:09:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tuukka:

This nightmarish situation--hitting the enemy dead center only to have him get back up--is explained largely by Howe's ammunition, according to William Atwater, director of the U.S. Army Ordnance Museum and a technical adviser to Bowden on "Black Hawk Down." The ammunition used by Howe has a "green-tipped tungsten carbide penetrator," Atwater explains. These specialized rounds are "heavier than normal rounds, much more stable, and designed for penetrating steel helmets or going through flak jackets at 500 yards." Alan Killinger, a museum specialist also at the U.S. Army Ordnance Museum, elaborates in grim detail: Standard M-16 ammunition "enters the body and stands up, turns on its side, rips through flesh and organs," and tears a gaping exit wound. Green-tipped rounds, because they have a more stable flight, generally won't tumble inside the body at distances of less than 300 yards.



Gee...doesn´t this sound...wait...umm..BULLSHIT




It sounds like about the same thing as in the ammo FAQ. I thought the core was just plain old steel though.


"green-tipped tungsten carbide penetrator" sounds like an ad for a new space aged drill bit.
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 6:16:17 PM EDT
Would'nt it be a AP round if it had a tugsten
core?
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 6:42:23 PM EDT
"Other writers took issue with the M-16's stopping power, many citing an episode in Mark Bowden's "Black Hawk Down" as evidence that the M-16 is, in fact, a pea-shooter. "Black Hawk Down" recounts the story of American troops in Somalia in 1993 surrounded by a numerically-superior force of AK-47-wielding guerrillas. Sergeant First Class Paul Howe, armed with the CAR-15, a 5.56mm infantry rifle similar to the M-16, notes that a number of Somalis, after being hit center mass, simply got back up to continue fighting. "It was like sticking somebody with an ice pick," Howe said. "The bullet made a small, clean hole, and unless it happened to hit the heart or spine, it wasn't enough to stop a man in his tracks."



This guy is a Sergeant First Class?
If you shoot ANYTHING though somebody at 3,000 fps it will at the very least gell up some stuff and hurt like HELL.

Anyway 5.56mm will make a very small hole...........on one side.

Ahhh,the fog of war.I bet the poor guy never hit the scum bags at all.
Not that thats bad if you don't know that hole thing was one hell of a mess but you don't shoot people center mass with a round that is known to frag the sec. it hits flesh and see them get up and fight hell you don't see them do anything other them rool in the drit.



BTW: Yes I have seen somebody get hit with a round from an A2,it's a very long and sad story but lest just say if you take a new guy to the range keep an eye on him.
Anyway 5.56mm/.223rem will do what I and others say it will.
Like go in the cest,gell up one lung,hit the spine,frag it as well and blow a hole 4" out the back.
That may not kill you right off but it will f*ing stop anybody.

Link Posted: 12/15/2001 7:15:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2001 7:10:52 PM EDT by Tuukka]
God damn it...can you guys please read the AR15 ammo FAQ.


Ahhh,the fog of war.I bet the poor guy never hit the scum bags at all.


So, a veteran Delta Sergeant First Class just missed 100% of the time...

I repeat, read the AR15 ammo FAQ

www.ecis.com/~mraudio/AR15_Ammo_FAQ.htm


Oh, and by the way, in 1993 there was no 5.56x45 ammunition with tungsten carbide penetrators, the ammo used was carden variety M855 ball ammo, look around old threads and see what the real problem was/is.

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