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Posted: 12/7/2001 6:44:46 PM EST
Please see the following thread to see where this got started.

www.cinemayhem.com/Cineforum/Forum17/HTML/000220.html

I was trying to come up with a definitive answer (though I don't believe I'll ever get that level of confirmation when asking about Delta) to the presumption that TFR, or at least Delta, was equiped with 11.5" barrels.

Any rate, does anyone have a picture of an M203 attached to an 11.5" barrelled M16/AR15?

Is it even possible to attach an M203 to an 11.5" barrel?

TIA
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 6:54:04 PM EST
40mm.simplenet.com/
the one their looks like a 11.5" aint it?
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 10:19:12 PM EST
Doesn't the military have 9" barreled M203's for the M4's?
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 11:01:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/7/2001 10:55:36 PM EST by Stottman]
I have never seen any US SOF with a 11.5" barrel. Plus, the foward mounting ring for the 203 would rest on the flash hider. If you look at an M4 barrel, where the 203 groove is is about where a 11.5 barrel flash hider is. Before the current crop of flattop M4/M4A1 carbines, US SOF seemed to use a mixture of M16A2s, M4 carbines with A2 sights, and M4 carbines with A1 sights(with brass deflector). All the photos that I have seen from this era confirm this. Heres a photo of an old M4 carbine (these have commercial "M16A2" markings) .
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 11:37:57 AM EST
The M203PMI has the shortened barrel (and different barrel attachment hardware - I think) than the standard M203 package.
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 11:45:23 AM EST
You mean the M203A1? - seriously its a shortened version for the M-4 - I'm not sure if Delta has a shorter version then this for 11.5" barrel models - but as far as I now Colt Commando models are still being used. Essentially a more modern XM-144/XM-177 like that used by MACV-SOG in Vietnam.
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 1:08:49 PM EST
The 11.5" bbl came into existence to mount the XM203 on the XM177-series. Original XM177E1 submachinegun was 10" bbl and that was lengthened to 11.5" in the XM177E2 to mount the grenade launcher.

All this was before we know the real wounding mechanism of M193 Ball and knowledgeable folks won't use less than 14.5" bbls in combat roles.

-- Chuck
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 1:55:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 2:09:54 PM EST
IIRC, there was a Safety message that came out recalling all of the short 203s that were in the SOCOM inventory. Seems there was an accident in the Ranger Regiment where an HEDP round went off a few feet in front of the shooter. The shorter 203 caused the round to spin faster and thus think it had went alot further than it had. I will try and get into the USASOC Safety office home page and see if I can get this. But I may have to have someone who still has access to a .mil computer do it since all DOD systems went secure a few months back.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 6:14:27 AM EST
Im unable to get a copy of the Safety message. Somone who is still on AD or a DA civ will have to get the info.

fred lucas
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