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Posted: 12/5/2001 6:43:27 AM EST
well, I'm not totally a newbie, I am qualified on the M-16, but my question concerns vendors.

How do you all rate

DPMS

Hesse

Olympia<­BR>
how do they stack up to Colt?
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 7:14:47 AM EST
Take a look at the older posts pertaining to this...you'll get a wide variety of opinions on this question. Take a look at the topics below, and "lurk" around. You'll pick up some good info just reading the older posts. Good luck with the selection!
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 7:33:31 AM EST
1 Armalite
2 Bushmaster
3 Colt
4 The rest, DPMS, Olympic, etc...

My 2 cents,
Mike
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 8:49:27 AM EST
you rate the bushie higher than the colt?

interesting....

what about the Tapco build it yourself kits I keep hearing about?

what's involved with that?
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 9:13:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/5/2001 9:05:37 AM EST by Avalon01]
The Tapco kits are good for a "range" gun. You still need to provide a lower reciver for it, and you may need to replace some worn parts. The kit contains used parts, but good quality. Sometimes the handgaurds and stocks are cracked, and sometime the finish is worn off.

Good luck trying to get one... Tapco is sold out, and they are selling for major bucks in the equipment exchange.

My Ratings:

1. Bushmaster (Best value for the dollar. Mil-Spec)
2. Armalite (Good finish on the rifle)
3. Colt (overpriced, not mil-spec)
4. Everyone else...

Edited to say: if you get a rifle from Armalite/Bushmaster/Colt you will be happy. They are the 3 top brands of AR-15's.

Av.


Link Posted: 12/5/2001 9:14:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/5/2001 9:06:54 AM EST by Forest]

Originally Posted By Frankenstein:
you rate the bushie higher than the colt?


I would too. Only I rate the Bushmaster as #1 with Armalite as #2 (Bushmaster is closer to the Mil-Spec, Armalite is nicer 'looking')



what about the Tapco build it yourself kits I keep hearing about?

what's involved with that?


From what I understand they are out of the kits. Actually its is involved. Besides buying a stripped lower, you have to sell or throw away all the full auto fire control parts and the bolt carrier (or modify it). Buy new comercial fire control parts. Grind off the Bayonet lug. Get a post-ban approved muzzle brake permanently attached (pin & welded or hi-temp silver soldered). Then re-finish.

Not a good choice for a newbie.

BTW of the 3 companies you mention I'd rate Olympic Arms & DPMS the same and Hesse the next tier down.
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 9:15:09 AM EST
It's a subjective thing all 3 are about equal in quality and re-sell value. I listed 'em like abc's.

Tapco kits? Be sure of what your getting, some of these kits come w/ M-16 fire-control parts which are a NO-NO for build it your-selfers, unless your paying the Feds their tax. You can type Tapco into the search and get hits which will cover your question better than I can, go back 3mos and weed thru, you'll see your question a few times.

Mike
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 11:35:47 AM EST
oly has too much movement between upper & lower (at least on my new gun).
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 12:39:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/5/2001 12:32:11 PM EST by Forest]
In answer to your original question. None of the rifles you listed will stand up to Colt for reliability. None of the 3 offer chrome lined barrels (like your Military Colt) (though Oly does offer it as an extra cost option). None of the 3 offer the A1 or A2 profile barrels as standard (Oly does offer it as an extra cost option). None of the 3 listed use the Mil-spec 4150 steel in their barrels. Typically they use the more common 4140 in the standard rifles, and stainless in their premium lines.

Oly and DPMS do offer some really accurate rifles with stainless Steel barrels.

If you value sub moa accuracy over reliability (with a 1-2 moa accuracy) then Oly & DPMS would be decent rifles to look at.
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 1:36:36 PM EST
well..... I value most of all price.... BUT... I've heard some bad things about Hesse.... and "lukewarm" reviews about Olympic... and NOTHING about DPMS.

I've seen all 3 at shows and the DPMS seemed to have the best fit and finish, anf the price was really attractive.

do DPMS rifles have probs with jamming (blocked gas ports etc etc)?
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 1:48:52 PM EST
Why not Rock River Arms for $ value and a well made AR? I've one and am very happy with it. My 2 cents.
W
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 1:57:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/5/2001 1:51:51 PM EST by WalkerTexasRanger]
DPMS builds QUALITY rifles. They are all milspec and a very easy company to deal with. Their prices are better than Bushmaster, only diff is the chrome chamber and barrel, not totally necessary as long as you commit to taking good care of the gun....

You can find a DPMS DCM at the upcoming show at GR Brown (Houston) this weekend for bout $750. Look it up at dpmsinc.com, retail $1100...

By a Colt or Armalite, also high quality products but you are paying extra for the names.

DPMS or Bushy are the best BANG for the buck.....
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 6:39:13 PM EST
well, here in Richardson, TX, there's a company called K-2 Sports that sells an AR with an A2 reciever, "commando" stock, standard butt, and reg length barrel. About 7 bricks as I recall.
Link Posted: 12/6/2001 12:45:45 PM EST

i have a dpms m4 style AR. all of it is dpms except the barrel, which is bushmaster (i wanted chrome lined). i have a stainless lower with the teflon finish, i love it. the mag well was a little tight but they fixed that for free. i think dpms is better priced for parts also - $8 for ejection port cover complete vs. BM's $11.95..WTF? dpms had a table at a gun show i went to and they gave my free forward assist ($20)when i bought a stripped upper!
Link Posted: 12/6/2001 12:48:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/6/2001 12:41:40 PM EST by Frankenstein]
that was mighty white of 'em hought
now all I gotta do is scrape up some $$$$$$
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 6:06:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By WalkerTexasRanger:
DPMS builds QUALITY rifles. They are all milspec


Quality, perhaps. But they are not close to milspec. Wrong barrel steel and lack of chrome lining is a BIG DEAL. Lack of the chrome reduces reliability. They have also used cast parts instead of forged at times.

I got to handle a friends DPMS this past year. The rifle shot EXTREAMLY well (it had a stainless match 20" barrel). However it would not function with his handloads (shot very well, just would not work the action).

I took those same handloads and but in my Bushmaster. My Bushmaster ate them without a problem. I suspect a wrong gas port size. It really didn't bother him as the comercial ammo he was also shooting operated the rifle fine (they just didn't produce as tight groups).


By a Colt or Armalite, also high quality products but you are paying extra for the names.

True for the Colt, I've not found Armalite to be priced so high (that may be a regional thing).
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 6:17:59 AM EST
it sounds to me like a kit gun might be the best way to go, based on the above post....

and I've rebuilt engines before.... I'm confident I can build a rifle with good instructions and the right tools (or access to them)...

or am I overconfident?
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 6:42:09 AM EST
I like my Rock River as well. I went to a shop that stocked several brands, including Bushmaster, and Armalite (and others). They had about 50 ARs on the racks.

If price were a MAJOR factor, I'd have picked a plain Bushmaster. The Armalite, my number 2 pick, had a nicer trigger pull than most of the guns, but was a plain flattop and had no rear sight. It was green, too, which was different, at least.

The Rock River had the best trigger pull, was a flat top, but with a rear sight, so I can add an optical sight and keep the iron sights (important to me). I liked the feel of the M4 handguard as well.

Only put a few hundred rounds through it, so can't say what long term reliability will be like, but enjoy the 2 stage trigger. I'd buy the Rock River, if I were doing it all over again.

BTW, since the 9-11 deal, his supply of ARs is GONE. Last time I was in he had just gotten a delivery of a few more Rock Rivers he had ordered a while back, and they were all spoken for. The racks were mostly empty, but for the odd lever action, a few Remington bolt actions, etc.

Used to have big stacks of milsurp ammo by the gun racks, and that's all gone, other than the bit of 7.62X54R he stocks. Maybe he'll carry a few Mosin Nagants to fill the empty racks and move the rest of the ammo?
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 7:02:26 AM EST
tinker - you in Houston?
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 9:02:06 AM EST
No, I'm just outside Austin.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 9:16:00 AM EST
IMHO: I have had excellent success with DPMS.. have 16" & 20" stainless bull A3 models, super-accurate. Also have a pre-ban w/GI A1 Upper Assy. In comparison to my Colt's, I feel DPMS has a better "out of the box" trigger pull. Fit, finish, and function are excellent. I do believe their chambers are a little more fussy than Colt & others, but have never had problems with FL resized/trimmed handloads of my own.. only other handloads on occasion. Never a problem with factory ammo. I'm not putting down any others (Bushy, Colt, etc..), but I do not believe DPMS gets the credit they deserve for quality firearms and excellent service. Another suggestion would be to visit ranges or if you have friends with AR's, get a look and feel first-hand before making your decision. Welcome to the world of the AR15!
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 9:50:07 AM EST
well, like I said, I qual'd on the M-16 in ROTC, but I don't own one *yet*.

ANyone know where I can score $700 or so quickly without having to pay it back?
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