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Posted: 11/22/2001 6:32:56 PM EST
and shot perfect out to a 400 yd. acetelyn tank, No stabilization problems. Where do you all hear that 1/12 wont shoot that 62 & up stuff. Its obviously bogus.

When I saw this guy who had this ammo and I told him my gun wouldnt shoot his ammo correctly. He said I am on crack and gave me some. Well, he was right I was on crack and they shoot perfectly.
Tracers are so cool. Too bad you only get 25 on the belt.
GG
Link Posted: 11/22/2001 6:46:43 PM EST
It's not that we only "hear" about the heavier bullets do not stabilize properly with 1/12" barrel; many of us have actually shot 62 grains using 1/12" twist rifling with very poor effects.

I have done that myself using 62 gr. "green tip" (advertised as Hirtenberger)and my shots were all over the paper at 100 yards.

Cheers!

Johannes
Link Posted: 11/22/2001 6:52:48 PM EST
I shot 62gr Chinese Match and some FNM SS109 in a 1/12 twist and many of the rounds hit sideways at 100 yds.
Link Posted: 11/22/2001 6:56:02 PM EST
"Guru" huh...

Just because you see a puff of dirt roughly where you aimed doesn't mean the bullet flew straight or didn't keyhole at that distance.
Link Posted: 11/22/2001 7:17:25 PM EST
Ruger VT-77 Mark II Heavy Barrel Varmit in .233, key holes with NATO green tips at 100 yards. Ruger has a 1/12 twist... but actually its not so much the bullet weight as the bullet profile. I have read that heavy bullets will shoot accurately in 1/12 if the rifle likes the bullet profile. Shooting Times April 1998, .223 Extreme Accuracy Test article, quotes:

Hornady 40-gr. V-Max .18" group
Remington 50-gr. Polymer Tip BT 1.43"
Winchester 50-gr. Ballistic Silvertip 1.05"
Black Hills 52-gr. Match HP .35"
PMC 52-gr. Sierra HPBT .40"
Winchester 53-gr. HP .75"
Federal 55-gr. Nosler Ballister Tip 1.06"
Hornady 55-gr. V-MAX .66"
Norma Diamond 55-gr. Match HP 1.22"
PMC 55-gr. Sierra HPBT .67"
Remington 62-gr. HP Match 1.29"
Black Hills 68-gr. Heavy Match HP 1.10"
Federal 69-gr. Sierra BTHP .70"
Norma Diamond 69-gr. Match HP .88"

Bullet weight does not mean everything, but profiles are somewhat dependent on weight... I don't think you'll ever squeeze .18" out of a 69-gr. for example.
Link Posted: 11/22/2001 9:37:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 5:04:51 AM EST
Years ago, I tried some 70gr. speer semi spritzer loads in my M16A1 barrel. I was at the 25yrd. pistol range, but I wanted to see some keyholes.
They all shot very well, tight groups and no keyholes at the very short range of 25yrds.
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 7:31:06 AM EST
No flames intended, just for the record:
Random House, Compact Unabridged Dictionary

Profile (pro'fil), n. 1. the out line or contour... viewed from the side. OR lengths plus widths, perimeter.

I believe the length plays an important role in flight trajectory by I feel the overall profile is more important. That is why the Boat Tail appears to have an advantage in long flight over most bullets due to its aerodynamic behind the bullet. The coefficient of drag is also a determining factor as is the hollow point which cuts the air as opposed to pushing through it.
We should also consider the rifle... the article I mention tested five rifles with one other 1/12 twist, the Remington Model 700VSSF .233. Its numbers were completely different from the Ruger with the 68-gr. Black Hills Heavy Match HP shooting at .67" from the same shooter.

My point is, try different bullets of various manufactures in whatever rifle you have in 1/12. There has to be something out there that will give respectable results for informal shooting.
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 7:57:27 AM EST
Yep! it's total bull,I was told not to shot 55gr. out of my 1-9 barrel cuz. it will "over spin" and key hole at about 200 yards

Not yet
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 8:15:05 AM EST
where do you get tracers?
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 9:25:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By Misfit:
"Guru" huh...

Just because you see a puff of dirt roughly where you aimed doesn't mean the bullet flew straight or didn't keyhole at that distance.



No, but you can sure follow a tracer with naked eye and tell how it flies. Obviously if the bullet hit where I aimed it flew straight.I think alot of people, not all, say they have done this but havent, they only repeat what they have heard on this board and say they done it. I would like to say, yeah, it keyholes all over the place, but that would be a lie. You get tracers on belt of 150 for 50 dollars, it comes with 125 green tips and 25 tracers It also comes in a box from winchester for 12 dollars.
GG
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 5:39:52 PM EST
Isn't temperature supposed to be an important factor in this? Air density goes up and muzzle velocity goes down as temperatures drop. Might be important here in northern Michigan.

I'm not too surprised that an individual barrel shot the regular 62 grainers well, but weren't the tracers the ones that led the military to go with the 7 inch twist? I'd never have thought they'd fly straight out of a 12 inch twist.
Link Posted: 11/30/2001 6:21:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Gun Guru:
and shot perfect out to a 400 yd. acetelyn tank, No stabilization problems. Where do you all hear that 1/12 wont shoot that 62 & up stuff. Its obviously bogus.

When I saw this guy who had this ammo and I told him my gun wouldnt shoot his ammo correctly. He said I am on crack and gave me some. Well, he was right I was on crack and they shoot perfectly.
Tracers are so cool. Too bad you only get 25 on the belt.
GG



I got keyholes at 50 yards and 7" groups when I tried it with an SP1... Doesn't seem to work for me... are you sure they were 62 gr tracers and not 55 ????
Link Posted: 11/30/2001 7:43:51 AM EST
Exuse my ignorance, but what is meant by keyholing? I havn't heard that term before
Link Posted: 11/30/2001 8:16:09 AM EST
My FNC(1/12) keyholes the 62 grainers every time. i love shooting water jugs with it. they explode..

keyholing is when the bullet hits kinda sideways.
Link Posted: 11/30/2001 8:16:14 AM EST
The bullet loses it's axial stability and begins to wobble and/or tumble. They will then make an oblong or side ways hole through a paper target.
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