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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 11/20/2001 2:06:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2001 2:27:07 PM EDT by CHUCK6419]
Ok here's the situation. My good freind and co-worker has a Glock 23 for sale... (it is no longer for sale) One factory hi-cap mag three ten round magazines, only 250 rounds shot through it, and it has night sights. he was asking $560 for the total package. I told him I would think about it... he said I know I can legally sell it to you as a private individual, but b/c you are not 21, I would rather you ask your dad to buy it for you. SO I asked him to do so. I told him I would keep the clips unloaded, gun with a lock on it in t he top of the gun case, and only use it when me and him(my dad) go to the range together. He wanted to talk it over with my gun-hating mom. That was his first mistake. Then he came back to me and said he wouldn't buy it because they didn't want a handgun around the house. Didn't offer any reason why they didn't want a handgun around the house. They allow me to have a Mini-14, 10/22, and a MAK-90(which I am about to buy instead) with the Hi-Cap magazines loaded in my closet, but they won't buy a glock to keep locked and unloaded with unloaded magazines in a locked gun safe, which is in their closet. TO me they should join the handgun control center if the yare gonna be that hypocritical. Might as well sell his own guns and become a darn democrat. just to think, I bought him a brand new stoeger condor 20 guage for his birthday, and he won't buy me a glock with my own money.
I thought my parents liked the 2nd Admendment
what do ya'll think?
Maybe I should get you guys and gals to chastise them through e-mails!!!!
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 2:11:20 PM EDT
If I am not mistaken you are not allowed to own a handgun if you under the age of 21 in the state of Georgia. You may want to check that out first.

Link Posted: 11/20/2001 2:19:24 PM EDT
no you have to be 21 to buy one from a FFL retailer. you can own or possess one in GA at the age of 18. you just can't carry it concealed or openly for defense purposes! YO ucan supposedly buy one from private individuals, but if you did anything wrong, the individual who sold you the gun can be sued and held liable!
I wouldn't do anything wrong and just to avoid the trouble we wanted to go through my parents!
-Chuck
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 2:29:33 PM EDT
Laws and hypocrisy notwithstanding, it sounds like you are living in THEIR HOUSE. If they say no handguns, it's no handguns.
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 2:34:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2001 2:29:12 PM EDT by CHUCK6419]
ok California _Kid,
Then explain to be why handguns are worse than
"assault rifles"? they like me owning my own guns, why not buy a gun in their name and then later use it. when I turn 21 in a year and 20 days I am going to own them anyway. why pay the higher price in a year. they have always taught me not to be a hypocrite, so their hypocrisy is withstanding!!
-Chuck
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 2:37:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 2:41:45 PM EDT
Too late now, but it is better to beg for forgiveness than to ask permission.
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 2:46:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2001 2:42:52 PM EDT by CHUCK6419]
Troy,(and others)
make a society that pays its retail workers enough money to afford that and I would. Besides I am going to college which is what they wanted for me. And that takes so much time that I could not possibly support myself. All I ask is that my parents(who are supposedly gun loving republicans) act upon the beliefs they have so strongly stated. their house is obligated to be a fair and just house, which they made a vow to God and the church to do so when I was born. So I believe by their hypocrisy
is worse than any disobediance. children may have to obey their parents, but the parents have an obligation to act fair and not provoke their children to wrath. We can overlook Ephesians but not overlook the third commandment? I thought you guys and gals on here would be sympathetic to a fellow gun-collector. guess not.
-Chuck

USMC4066,
In the spirit of obediance, I did what my conscience said was right. I am not even gonna tell them about the MAK-90 I am about to buy!
-Chuck
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 2:48:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USMC4066:
Too late now, but it is better to beg for forgiveness than to ask permission.



Dad, is that you...


best advice my dad ever gave me about women.
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 5:21:57 PM EDT
Chuckie....You sound like a whining little child. I also agree...their house, their rules...period! I know you don't agree with it, but when you are there age you will probably be saying the same thing.

Sgtar15
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 5:24:10 PM EDT
Get the Hell out of their house and see what you can afford. You have it easy livin' with the Folks, When you own a house you are the dictator over children, act like a child and be treated as one, but my advice is for you to move out while you still know everything.
GG
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 7:27:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2001 7:23:34 PM EDT by David_Hineline]
You parents know you better than you know yourself at your age. If in thier opinion they do not think you can be trusted with a gat then that is end of discussion. When you are an adult you can do as you like.

Show them you can act like an adult and Tell you parents that you will be 21 in a couple of years and you would like to buy this handgun now before restrictions on ownership gets even tighter, you will pay for a safe deposit box to store the handgun and ammunition in, and give them the only access key. It will be totally up to thier discretion if and when you ever shoot it.
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 8:22:56 PM EDT
All of you guys get this "parent dictatorship" idea from the Bible about children obeying their parents. One question... did anyone read Ephesians 6 where the Bible says "Fathers do not provoke your children to wrath"? They have an obligation to make fair rules just as I have an obligation to obey them, which I have done.

David_Hineline,
You obviously did not read how the gun would be kept. I also stated that I wanted to buy this gun before restrictions and before prices rise, sorry if I did not make that clear. how do you figure that my parents know me better than myself? God does sure, but Between work and school I am never here long enough for them to converse about anything but what's for dinner and going to sleep.


Just remember this moms and dads, when you set unfair and stupid rules without giving your child valid/solid reasons for those rules, you are provoking your child to wrath, which is no better than your child disobeying you.

Do I live by their rules? Yes I am. Are they obligated to fairness? Yes they are. Have they done that? nope.
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 8:27:15 PM EDT
Sgtar15,
when I am their age, there won't be any legal guns left.They would have banned them all if we don't all vote for pro-gun canidates!
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 8:35:09 PM EDT
Well Chuck I don't wanna sound like I am joining the bunch ganging up on ya . . . but your parents don't have an obligation to be fair. They can be unfair pricks if they so desire, and as is oft-said, it's their friggin' house. If they want to be "hypocrites" I figure they can be just that.

My mom put the kabash on my intended first handgun when I was 15 years old. A four-inch SW Model 15. She was afraid of something but wouldn't tell me what except "no."

About 25 years later, I have a lot more guns than that and I have yet to go nuts or act irresponsibly with a firearm. I wouldn't have then. Mom was wrong. But she doesn't have to be right to get her way in the house and ya gotta respect parents for that even when they are wrong.

Good luck in your acquisition of toys in spite of the obstacles.
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 8:50:26 PM EDT
Ummm, I hate to say it,but if your dad won't buy you a pistol, too bad. I was lucky enough to have parents that would do exactly what you want yours to do, but if they wouldn't i wouldn't have complained. after all, free room and board was a trade off for a little infraction. Seriously, if you don't like it move out. In reality, it doesn't matter because you won't be old enough anyway. Save your money and buy a Wilson combat the day you turn 21 or buy a sweet long gun. No biggy.
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 9:32:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2001 9:25:21 PM EDT by AK_Boy]
Maybe they want to get you one for christmas? (hopeful thinking?)
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 9:40:06 PM EDT
Chuckie, After reading your post I believe even more that you are just overly whining> If your parents have allowed you to own rifles but not a pistol then they are being fair IMHO. After all, most parents don't even allow their children to own any firearms.

I understand were you are coming from, since I was once your age. And when I was 20y.o. I too thought my parents were idiots and unfair. When I move out out I learned why they tried so hard to teach me the things they did. My rantings and raving of my early 20's caused years of tension between me and my parents. Try not to make the same mistake.

When you move out you can buy all you want. Yes it may cost more, but most will probably still be around for you to buy. You may legally be an adult but any action that takes place in the home is the direct legal responsibility of your parents. This means and gun accidents or anything else. And since you can't even afford your own place I doubt you can afford to pay any damages as the result of your actions.

In short, learn to abide by their rules as long as you live there. Yes you should be able to provide input and they should listen to your concerns, but ultimitely it is still their rules. In a few short years you will be on your own and then you will miss the time you had it so easy.

BTW, last night I finally got the first rifle I ever shot when I was just 12y.o. I have been wanting to get this rifle from my father for over 10 years as I had sentimental value attached to it. My father was happy to pass it on to me but my mother was hessitant. Even thought I am 37y.o., have two children, been married for 16 years, and have owned many other firearms for years!! Before she allowed me to have the rifle she still questioned me about firearms safety and storage!!! In short: That's just the way mothers are....protective!!!

Understand???

Sgtar15
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 10:01:34 PM EDT
Also Chucky. The way with your childish attitude I wouldnt let you own any gun because to say it flat out, You are way to immature to have one and it seem your parent are not hipocrites but good people doing the right thing, keeping guns out of the hands of people that should not have them.
GG
Link Posted: 11/21/2001 5:00:40 AM EDT
Well it seems that pretty much everyone here knows you better than you know yourself, so I think your parents would definatly fall into that catagory. Anyone running around whining life if not fair stop picking on me is not ready to be an adult yet, and they and everyone on these boards knows it.

You stated that they do not want a pistol around the house. Yet when I suggested you store it off site at a secure location with only them having access you came back at me with the rules you offered to them. You should try and comply with thier rules. What matters is what they want not some kid who can barely wipe his own butt.

Once again I suggest you offer off site secure storage with guaranteed no access to you. This would meet thier criteria of no handguns around the house.

You know I am 42 yrs old and I when I stay with my family at my inlaws house and if they said No machineguns in our house. You know what I would respect that and leave them out in the car although I know that is an irresponsible way to store them. You see it's all about respect here. Respect is earned. Your parents have put in the time and earned respect and you have not shown it to them. You have not earned thier respect as an adult yet and this is how they show lack of respect for you.

Show them respect and they might learn to show you some in return.
Link Posted: 11/21/2001 5:38:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2001 5:47:05 AM EDT by CHUCK6419]
So if parental dictators don't have an obligation to be fair, The nwhy do expect the same out of a governement? We live in that's govern'ments country and must obey by its rules? what if its rules are wrong? Do we shrug it off and pay the stamp tax, or the tea tax? do we not fight gun control? Do we not fight other stupid things all governments have done? The family is a microcosm of this. I have done nothing but respect my parents during this whole debate. I am simply stating that their rules are hypocritical, or atleast they won't give me a decent explanation of these rules and why they have them, which they are damn well obligated to do, just like I am obligated to obey them. The latter of which I have done.
Those of you who do not agree that the rule is stupid must justify yourselves by claiming this parental dictatorship. There is no moral code ever written that supports this parental dictatorship. That is simply a fact. The Bible, torah, koran...etc. claims a give and take relationship full of love and respect and obediance on the part of the child. And expects the parent to love and cherish and respect the child.

One Last thing, all of you have assumed that the reason they did not want the handgun was a reason to do with me. This is a notion with no basis, since they reason they gave me was "We just don't want a handgun around the house". No other reason was presented and,they did not give a reason in reference to me. This is where the hypocrisy starts. They allow weapons that have 30+ round magazines to be locked in my closet, but they do not want a 13 round gun in theirs, simply because it is a handgun. They like rifles hate handguns.

I have obeyed their rules. I cannot buy the handgun anyway. I Did/do respect my parents.
I just think they are hypocritical for their lack of reasoning. This is a logical thought, and none of you would fail to think the same thoughts.

David_Hineline,
Show me where I have failed to respect my parents?(That question can go for anybody)
I have obeyed their wishes...
I have shown Respect for them, just not their opinion...
I have not Begged for the handgun...
I am only simply disagreeing with them...
If disagreement is Disrespect, then I will pray for your kids everynight. They'll need it.


I wish all of you a Happy Thanksgiving. Give thanks to God for the kids you have. Don't "Provoke them to Wrath"

I hope this thread shows all of you how you make your kids think.
Link Posted: 11/21/2001 6:29:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CHUCK6419:... I wish all of you a Happy Thanksgiving. Give thanks to God for the kids you have. Don't "Provoke them to Wrath"

I hope this thread shows all of you how you make your kids think.



And a very Happy Thanksgiving to you, CHUCK6419.

I wish I had my 43-year-old perspective in a 19-year-old body with your kind of spirit and energy. Being 20 was one of the worst times of my life for a reason that seems lame now - My girlfriend was 21 and could go out to nightclubs that server alcohol, and I couldn't go with her. That was back in the Disco days. Now women half my age seem to be very attracted to me, at least until they find out I'm older than their father.

Things will seem A LOT BETTER when you are 21, supporting yourself, and out of your parents' nest.

One more thing - I was married for over 10 years to a woman who didn't want handguns in the house. When I felt a desire to buy one I had to make a decision - Keeping peace in the house won. I didn't argue or fret about it because I knew there was zero chance of "winning". But the first item I bought after we split up was a 1911-A1 pistol.

Bottom line - You can't have or do everything you want all the time. I suggest that you get used to it. There will always be things you want to have or do that conflict with other things you want to have or do.
Link Posted: 11/21/2001 10:00:49 AM EDT

All of you guys get this "parent dictatorship" idea from the Bible about children obeying their parents. One question... did anyone read Ephesians 6 where the Bible says "Fathers do not provoke your children to wrath"? They have an obligation to make fair rules just as I have an obligation to obey them, which I have done


You are currently the only poster on this thread to invoke the Bible....so your ASSumption that we get, what was it...'parent dictatorship'...from the bible has neither grounding nor basis. Or do you wish to explain how one who may be a Buddhist, or atheist, gains their belief. Of course, you whine about 'parental dictatorship' because you can't get your way. Consider being happy they even allow you to keep ANY guns in their home in the first place. I'm guessing that thought didn't cross your mind either.

"Provoking your children to wrath" does NOT mean coddling their insipid and temporary desires at every moment, nor does it mean instantly acceeding to their will. If you could put aside your immature mewling you might be able to understand what this really means. You're on your own on that one, as I have no interest in arguing scripture or morality with you. It would be pointless.


...their house is obligated to be a fair and just house, which they made a vow to God and the church to do so when I was born.


Fair and just to whom? Fair and just based on what standing, or code? I'm sorry, but just because YOU feel that these rules are not fair or just does not indeed make them so. From a technical and legal standpoint, THEY own the property. YOU do not. They have the right to decide what will and will not be allowed on that property. They even have the right to throw you out, if they were so inclined. If you don't like it, tough. Even from a moral standpoint, as parents they are responsible for setting rules and BOUNDARIES. Whether or not you 'like them', or whether or not you think they are 'fair' is NOT the prime consideration.
Let me ask you a question. How many times, before you decided to call your mother a hypocritical, gun hating dictator did you stop to think about how she feels about the situation.....that maybe, just maybe her feelings deserve even the illusion of consideration? And of course, it was a 'mistake' for your father to ask her about it?

You have choices. You can get your own place and have your own rules. But you don't get paid enough? Quit school and find a better job. If you don't like the choices you have.....guess what...THAT'S LIFE.
Link Posted: 11/21/2001 10:01:20 AM EDT
You have choices. You can get your own place and have your own rules. But you don't get paid enough? Quit school and find a better job. If you don't like the choices you have.....guess what...THAT'S LIFE.


Just remember this moms and dads, when you set unfair and stupid rules without giving your child valid/solid reasons for those rules, you are provoking your child to wrath, which is no better than your child disobeying you.


From where do you get the understanding that they have to provide you ANY reasons for their rules? Please explain where you get this idea. And no, just because you are pissing and moaning that you can't buy your gatt-er-Glock because of them, they are not 'provoking you to wrath'. Do yourself a favor, and instead bleating like a sheep over this immature 'my parents are dictators' crap, why not instead try to be mature, level headed, and possibly ADULT about it.

Remember this....just because people here are avid firearms owners doesn't mean we will all sympathize with you over the plight of a Glock. A lot of people here also believe in respect and obedience to parents as well, something which you CLEARLY lack.

And yes, you did handle it VERY poorly. My mother told me the exact same thing. She did NOT, under any circumstances, want ANY guns to enter her house. She told me this as I was purchasing my first handgun. I told her that was perfectly acceptable. I would keep it locked in the trunk of my car, or in a safety deposit box, until I could find a range that rents locker space for firearms. No bitching or moaning, with a healthy dose of respect for my mother's authority. The prime difference in end result? I was allowed to keep my gun in my room as long as it was unloaded. I wonder if the wisdom of this would be clear to you.
Link Posted: 11/21/2001 10:10:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
You parents know you better than you know yourself at your age. If in thier opinion they do not think you can be trusted with a gat then that is end of discussion. When you are an adult you can do as you like.

Show them you can act like an adult and Tell you parents that you will be 21 in a couple of years and you would like to buy this handgun now before restrictions on ownership gets even tighter, you will pay for a safe deposit box to store the handgun and ammunition in, and give them the only access key. It will be totally up to thier discretion if and when you ever shoot it.




This is the best idea. It worked for me: essentially in IL I need a FOID to buy ammo or guns. I asked my parent can I get a gun, they were leary at first, but I said they could take my FOID card and give it to me when I need to transport the gun to the range or buy ammo. They agreed, and when I got the gun, they said I can keep my FOID card, because they considered the gesture very responsible. And now my Dad shoots with me, my mom cares less when I haul home shooting supplies, ammo, new guns, whatever.
Link Posted: 11/21/2001 10:37:07 AM EDT
What would be wrong with not storing the Glock in the house? I like the box at the bank or how about at a friends or relatives. You do have options other than a confrontation with your parents, which in this case would seem detrimental to your acting like an adult. Good luck. My 10 and 12 year old want to go shooting so I guess I'll get out the Ruger MK.2 and Beretta. I tell them they are theirs but I keep them locked in the safe.
Link Posted: 11/21/2001 11:11:22 AM EDT
Chuckie,

I read enough of this thread to know that you are probably a selfish child who had everything handed to you. I sympathize, so was I. I thought my dad was an idiot until I was 25 and had a family of my own. Then I knew how wrong I had been. A family is not a democracy. If you are not footing the bill you have no say at all in household matters beyond what your parents give you, and they really are not obligated to give you anything. If they wanted they could dump your stuff on the lawn and say BE GONE. You should be thankful that they have put up with you. Their house, their rules, fairness does not enter into the deal. They did not get elected and no need for biblical refrence as I don't see anything in the bible about owning one particular type of gun. Grow up move on, move out, support yourself and quit troubling us with your version of unfair. When you pay the mortgage you can make your own rules.
Link Posted: 11/21/2001 6:26:44 PM EDT
Oh my God! Chuck, I cant beleive in this world "life was unfair today" It happens to us all, but with me it was fireworks.
GG
Link Posted: 11/22/2001 7:12:32 AM EDT
Let me get this straight... complaining about life not being fair is wussy and wrong? Well if people had not complained and willing to stand up for those complaints, we would not be living in a nation called the United States of America.

No life is not always fair, only a dumb#$% would think differently, but does that mean we should not strive to make it fair and just?

By the way I am thankful that my parents let me keep weapons. Which I keep in a totally responsible manner.

The problem with not storing the glock in the house is I can't be there when somebody steals it. A lock box at a bank or post office is an ilegal place to store a weapon w/o the bank's permission.

as previously stated, my basis for parental rules being fair is Ephesians 6. When you parents out there provide unfair rules without valid reasons, you then provoke your children to wrath.

by the way shotar,
I had to work for most of what you had been given. I have had to help my parents pay the rent sometimes. Now that we are financially decent this is not a problem, but I still pay for what a lot of college students are given.

By the way,
I am an adult. If I can be drafted and trusted with an M-16 in war, then I should be able to vote, own a weapon, operate a business, drink (which I don't do),etc...
(side note... I wouldn't be drafted, I would volunteer)

I guess none of you see that promoting your children to wrath is essentially the same wrong as children disobeying their parents.

I have not disobeyed them... and I couldn't buy the gun even if I moved out, now could I?


Link Posted: 11/22/2001 9:08:20 AM EDT
Chuck;

I can relate to your anger. You are sort of in a transition period. Maybe it is the fact that you are sort of seeking their support and approval and they won't give it. I could be way off base but it sounds a lot like what I went through with my parents. Long story short I sought various assistance over the years back then...more seeking their approval than actual necessity I think. I got similar answers as you. It really hurt. But made me stronger.

Part of this could be a power play on their part. That is wrong. Maybe they are thinking you are still an irresponsible kid, probably wrong thinking again. In any case it is probably time to strike out on your own and do the school/work thing. I think you will have more piece of mind and you will find you really don't need to rely on them any longer (did you ever really need to?). Yeah sure maybe you won't be able to buy the handgun for awhile but it will probably be less important for you for awhile too. But, no more worries about their judgements of you as a person. Piece of mind is everything!

This may or may not be the situation. Just kind of sounds similar to the stuff that I went through back then.

I just thought it might be comforting to hear a 40 year old guy that actually remembered what it was like and maybe give you one idea how to solve it.

If the situation is sort of as I described you should get out of their house. You will make it with work and school and paying the bills. Every body giving you advice has done it... so did your parents. You can too.

I feel your pain. I don't think you are immature or anything. Those interpersonal conflicts get to us all.

Hang in there man.
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 7:53:18 AM EDT
Parents can be a real pain in the ass sometimes and of course it doesn't matter if they are right or wrong, their house, their rules, etc.
Just stock up on rifles for now and after you turn 21 start your pistol collection.
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 5:24:32 PM EDT
Thank You BlackHolegun


Finally,
a man who knows what he is talking about and is/will be a responsible parent who remebers his childhood.
The Rest Of Ya'll could learn a lesson from this man.

-chuck
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