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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 11/20/2001 11:44:07 AM EDT
Just got the new CDNN catalog and saw these advertised on the back cover for $299.99. I've wanted to get a 1911-type gun for a long time, but new ones can't be sold in this state (MA) due to the AG's 1998 ruling, and anything that was made prior to 1998 is going for excessive prices. Since these are from 1927 and are C&R getting them into the state isn't a problem and would be great that that price. Just wanted to see if anyone has had any experience with them and could recommend them or not. Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 11:59:25 AM EDT
I've seen a handful of these, and the ones I've seen were ok...the finish was very worn, but the fit wasn't as bad as I would have expected (compared to the Ballister Molinas!!) If you're looking for a 1911 pattern to represent the breed, they fill the bill, for a pretty cheap price. They shoot, but the accuracy wasn't the greatest. From a safety POV, you're OK. Parts from any 1911 should fit without any problems at all...the tolerances aren't exactly tight. Good luck.
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 12:17:22 PM EDT
Buy from this guy.

http://www.cruffler.com/JLD.html

I bought one. Perfect shape. Looks like it just came from the factory. My neighbor liked it so much he bought one. I had one small problem but fixed it. I have about 200 rounds through it. It looks the same as a real colt a friend hac
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 12:23:36 PM EDT
Howdy neighbor!

I bought one of these Systemas with my C&R license in June.With new 1911's illegal in MA it was the only way to go.I ordered mt Systema through Cruffler and recieved a brand new looking 1911.It is essentially a pre- war commercial colt.Every 1991 part will fit into it.I actually completely stripped mine down to frame and customized it with the parts that I wanted in it for a carry pistol.They aren't the most accurate beasts but they are just fine for defense use.If you want better accuracy then I suggest putting in a match bushing or a different barrel.For $300 you can't go wrong.If you have any more questions please fell free to ask away.

Kris
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 1:06:48 PM EDT
Wonderful guns
Bargains
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 1:29:32 PM EDT
What law made new 1911's illegal in MA.?
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 1:56:01 PM EDT
Thanks for all the replies and the info! Just e-mailed a local FFL and asked him to mail out a copy of his FFL to JLD so I could order one. Found out from him that apparantly CDNN won't ship firearms to MA at all... even to FFLs, so I'll go with JLD.

Andrew: It wasn't so much a law that made them illegal. The Attorney General dictated through some "Consumer Safety Standrards" that new pistols being sold in this state had to meet certain "safety requirements". All new pistols in MA now have to have either a 1. a chamber loaded indicator OR a magazine disconnect 2. a second, hidden serial number 3. a trigger pull of at least 10lbs. So, now the only new pistols that can be sold are S&W's, Walther P99s, and special "MA-Compliant" Sigs. On top of all of this, the Attornet General's Office refuses to acknowledge or provide info as to what pistols meet the requirements and which don't. So, there's no "approved" list like they have in CA.
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 2:36:08 PM EDT
The consumer safety act went into effect in October of 1998 so all handguns manufactured prior to that are grandfathered in.Unfortunately that means a stiff price for all pre-ban handguns that can be bought for 1/3 less in every other state.Bummer about CDNN not shipping here.I have found out this week that SOG won't ship here and Tapco won't even send preban magazines to MA :( Thank Gawd I'm movin'!
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 2:46:08 PM EDT
I've seen a couple of these purported "Sistema" Colts that were not Argentina guns at all but were actually genuine Colts.

Prior to 1927, Colt manufactured 1911's and 1911-A1's for the Argentina government in its Hartford, CT plant and these guns bare the normal rampant Colt logo and Hartford address on the left side of the slide and the Argentina crest and inscriptions on the right side.

In 1927 Colt sold the tooling and the manufacturing license rights to the Argentina government and actually set up the plant in Argentina for them. The guns made in Argentina, after 1927, were actually made on Colt machinery and bare the Argentine crest and description on the right side of the slide and the just initials D.G.F.M.A.P. or F.M.A.P. (Fabrica Militar de Armas Portalias) on the left side.

The pre-1927 guns have significantly more collectors value but not a lot of people are even aware of the difference. You might get lucky and draw one of these.

Mechanically, and functionally, there is absolutely no difference in the guns and all of the parts interchange freely with every other standard 1911 part ever made. At least every one I have ever run across. I've got three of the "Sister" Colts, one pre-1927 and two Argentina made guns, and the only difference is a little bit rougher finish and a few more tools marks on the Argentina made examples.

Happy shooting; Doug
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 3:18:58 PM EDT
The pre-1927 handguns are the Hartford Colts that were selling for a few $$'s more than the Systemas.I can assure you that you would not get one by mistake.
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 4:48:40 PM EDT
I don't own a Sistema but a friend has one and I was impressed by the quality of it. If you're looking for a shooter and not a museum piece, then you should be fine.

As far a Massachusetts is concerned, y'all should move up here to the Free Republic of New Hampshire. We'd love to have as many of you pro-gun people come up here and scare away the lefties.

Regards,
SOL
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 5:09:34 PM EDT
Y'know, when I see the initials "SOL" I don't think of "Sons of Liberty." Maybe it's just me . . .
Link Posted: 11/21/2001 6:47:05 AM EDT
It figures on Monday (1 day before this post started) I ordered a Sistema from CDNN and I am currently awaiting its arrival. Should be at my house either today (Wed) or Friday.
You guys are right, $300 for a 1911 is definitely a deal.
I've always been partial to 1911's, I own 3 already, 2 of them custom pistols.

When mine arrives I plan on stripping it down and giving it a good going over. I'll post the results and some pictures here.
Link Posted: 11/21/2001 7:54:11 PM EDT
SOL: I'm hoping to move up there eventually. It'll be easier when/if I can get a job up that way. Trying to get a law enforcement job so I'm currently applying to any departments in NH that may be hiring. I'd love to move to NH... It'd be nice to be able to buy Glocks for regualr price instead of used ones for $800. Definitely got to get myself an HS2000 when I move to NH. :)

Princeton: Sounds great. Let us know how the Sistema works out. I'm planning on getting one for use as a "shooter" and definitely not as a museum piece. I contacted my FFL about having him mail his FFL out to JLD but haven't heard back from him yet.

Anyone know of any other decent FFLs in the Worcester or Fitchburg/Leominster area of MA that don't mind just doing transfers? I always feel guilty having my usual dealer do transfers since it seems like I give him more transfer business than regular business.

Hmmm... Now I see FAC has S&W 681 revolvers for around $200... sound decent. Anyone know anything about the 681?

Onemore thing to ramble on then I'm done... I've noticed in two different locations (Most recently on the back page of Shotgun News) that there's some 1911 type pistols by Rock Island Armory and they are being advertised as being "MA-Compliant". Anyone confirm that these can be purchased in MA and why? And if so, does anyone know anything about Rock Island Armory and the quality of their 1911s?
Link Posted: 11/21/2001 9:07:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2001 9:06:15 PM EDT by ar-snpr]
They are definitely worth the $300 price range. Here's the one I got.
Link Posted: 11/22/2001 7:08:06 AM EDT
XeroSygnal: About 2 months ago, the Hudson NH Police Dept. was hiring officers. I know they have a web site but I don't know it off hand. Maybe they're still looking. Good luck.
Regards,
SOL (that's short for "Sons of Liberty", not "Shit outta luck" ;-)
Link Posted: 11/22/2001 10:01:27 AM EDT
ar-snpr: Damn, looks sweet. Can't wait to get one myself. :) Is it difficult to swap out parts on a 1911? For example if I wanted to replace the hammer, safety and trigger?

SOL: Thanks. I'll look into Hudson as well. I know that Concord is hiring right now so I'll be taking their exam in a couple of weeks. Also found out recently that Nashua is going to be hiring around March and that the NH state police will be hiring "in the spring".
Link Posted: 11/22/2001 11:54:46 AM EDT
I bought a Sistema two years ago from CDNN and it was okay but had a rotten splatter pattern (18 inches at 25 yards). The barrel and slide were simply worn out. The receiver is good and heavier than the new 1991A1s Colt produces (I've got both). I intend to buy a Carbine Conversion Unit from Mech Tech and use the Sistema receiver to power the CCU. Look into it if you get a boner.

Good Luck,
WalkerColt
Link Posted: 11/22/2001 4:42:20 PM EDT
ARdvark, Yahoo tells me "permission denied" with your link.
Link Posted: 11/22/2001 5:06:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 8:52:10 AM EDT
I received my Sistema Monday afternoon.
I was kinda surprised it arrived through the US Mail. Postwoman knocked on my door and handed it to me and had me sign for it, I wonder if she knew what it was?

Taking it out of the box it looked almost new. It has been flawlessly refinished. If it wasn't for some minor wear on the rear sight and on the safety I would have never guessed it was used. The slide was rollmarked "Buenos Aires Policia" or something like that (its in the safe right now)
I stripped it down completely to get a complete idea as to its condition. It came apart and went back together without a hitch. It was clean internally except for some thick crud in the mainspring housing area. There was some minor pitting on the frame under the grips that does not show when the grips are installed. The grips are plastic but are actually kinda nice, I'm leaving them on the pistol. All internal parts looked new except for the mainspring and the screw that holds the magazine release in place.
The barrel has very little rifling left. Can hardly tell the difference between the lands and grooves. It looks like it was cleaned with sandpaper (or a rock) and the scratches go straight down the bore not twisted in the direction of the rifling. I don't expect anything in the way of accuracy but I will shoot it to be sure it functions before buying a new barrel at the gun show next weekend. The slide to frame fit is as good as any factory gun I've handled.
The trigger is heavy and has a small pad which makes pulling the trigger even more difficult.

What I am personally going to replace is the barrel and the trigger and put in a new mainspring.
What I would like to do later is have a gunsmith install better sights (front and back) and see what can be done with the factory fire control parts to maybe lighten the pull.

I will take a picture of it later but honestly, it looks exactly like the one in ar-snpr's picture.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 9:57:32 AM EDT
My customized Sistema:



My un-fooled-with "Hartford" Colt 1927:

Link Posted: 11/28/2001 10:14:06 AM EDT

I've got two of them...great shooters, excellent condition, can't beat the price. I got my from JLD through cruffler....good way to go for this deal. And yes, there is something nice about getting a 1911 pistol in the US mail.
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