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6/25/2017 7:35:25 PM
6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 11/19/2001 3:21:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2001 1:21:18 PM EDT by ILove2Shoot]
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 3:27:03 PM EDT
Can anyone out there tell us whether or not it is illegal for ILove2Shoot to post all the details about these crooks on the Internet?

If NOT...why not post everything you know? Maybe they will or have tried it with someone else and the cops can use some other sources to help catch them...and just maybe, we can find someone who knows them. I'd love to see these SOBs caught.

Link Posted: 11/19/2001 3:29:55 PM EDT
Probably not illegal, but it's probably not a good idea either.

If you're going to accept money orders, you should make sure they are USPS money orders. They require more skill to alter and you get the USPS on your side if someone does something wrong.

God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 3:33:33 PM EDT
DAMN.......I feel for ya ILove2Shoot, good luck in the hunt for your dirtbag.
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 3:44:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 3:45:16 PM EDT
I hope you get your money from that cheap bastard. Please keep us posted on how this turns out.
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 3:45:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 3:57:04 PM EDT
Let's see:

7 Counts of Fraud in Altering the Documents.
2 Counts of Theft Of A Firearm.
etc...

And all across state lines or were the SOBs in your state. If they did this across state lines, the Feds will teach them a lesson they will never forget.
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 4:39:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 4:49:26 PM EDT
Never even occurred to me that could be done.
What FFL did they get sent to?
cpermd
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 4:54:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 4:57:46 PM EDT
What did they look like? Possible terrorists or just native malcontents? Inquiring minds want to know, mainly because I'm bored at work.

Sorry they got you, but at least you know what they physically look like.

God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 5:02:00 PM EDT
This hurts. The trust between honorable men is destroyed by the low life scum of this world. Death to trash....they don't deserve to walk among civilized folk. One of the things I have enjoyed most about the people here is the honor, integrity and trust....
What the hell is left when a man has no honor!
I pray you get this guy!
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 5:09:00 PM EDT
I think the FBI wants to talk to them because you heard them say something about "bioweapons" didn't you.
cpermd
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 5:15:35 PM EDT
Check out the details of the "RICO" act at Findlaw.com. I think it has to do with fraud using the federal mail system. Maybe you can hit these guys twice like OJ. Once in Federal court and once in State. I feel for you brother.
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 5:17:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 5:21:55 PM EDT
cpermd, that's a pretty sly suggestion. Bravo!
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 5:27:59 PM EDT
Sorry to hear this.

Would it hurt to post the serial numbers and description of the rifles just so honest folk in your neck of the woods could look out for you if these bastages try to unload them?
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 5:38:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas:
If you're going to accept money orders, you should make sure they are USPS money orders. They require more skill to alter and you get the USPS on your side if someone does something wrong.God Bless Texas



Yeah! What he said!

Seriously though I basicly use only USPS money orders for anything of any real value
I'm buying/selling through the mail.

I figure it's cheap insurance. It makes the
potential theft a Federal Felony. I'm sure the Post Office has more important things to deal with these days but I bet one would get a little more help & have a little more recourse this way.
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 6:02:40 PM EDT
Woulden't this be a federal offence . I bought a firearm with a check one time and asked if he wanted I.D. and he said if the funds were no good that it was a federal offence to buy a firearm with a bad check .
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 6:26:48 PM EDT
First I am very sorry to read you were ripped off. I had a situation close to yours I did not know if the money orders were real or not but I thought something was wrong, my face to face transaction went south after I asked one question.
" Why did you buy 3 money orders for $750 when you could have just given me the cash?" The look on that guys face told the whole story and our deal was over.

Link Posted: 11/19/2001 6:54:49 PM EDT
Guys,
Read his posts, this wasnt a mailorder/online sale involving the postal service. This was a private party face to face transfer.

At least you know what he/they look like. For PP transfers most people insist on cash.
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 7:10:47 PM EDT
Fortunately, my first Private Transfer was from me to a Marine. He was a great guy to sell to. He asked if I wanted Cash, Check, Money Order or whatever. I said, well Cash would be best. So, he went and got Cash and paid me with it. Very trustworthy guy. That says alot for the USMC.

The closest I have come to being screwed (on a gun transaction, as I have been screwed on other transactions) were an idiot who when we met, wanted to pay me less than we agreed on. Sorry, buddy Cough up what we agreed on or you don't get the gun. Some other idiot wanted to know how hard it was to convert to Full-Auto. That transaction ended right then.

I usually trust the people I sell guns to. This is not a trust I afford to others, especially on E-BAY. This incident further degrades the trust that exists among Gun Owners. I hope they are caught and spend the rest of their lives in Federal Prison.
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 7:26:04 PM EDT
Next time if you are going to do Private purchase insist that they either give cash or prepay by paypal (make them pay the 3 percent surcharge!) so you cant be screwed...
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 7:37:58 PM EDT
Absolutely horrible!!!!
I have been very fortunate, but it still gets me flamed when stuff like this happens.

Good luck. I hope it all turns out OK in the end
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 7:56:44 PM EDT
Well I for one thank you for telling how this lowlife did what he did. I know in this area money orders aren't written for over $300 except the ones from banks or Postal money orders, I don't even know how big they write money orders even. Probably is felony altering of a financial instrument or some such they can stick on the fellow. My prayers are with you and I am also praying that justice is done in this for you.Can they check where he bought the money orders? Many times such as at convienence stores they film the people, so he might be on candid camera.
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 8:21:14 PM EDT
Please help me understand something here.

Who sells/buys a money order with a face value of $1? Much less 7 of them? Why didn't this set off some alarm bells with the company that sells them? Aren't the fees for M.O.s something like fifty or seventyfive cents apiece? More alarm bells?

The only instance I could come up with (help from my wife) is if you were sending a buck to cover postage for a recipe or booklet of some sort.

The purchase of 7 $1 M.O.s ought to raise someones suspicions.
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 8:26:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2001 8:21:43 PM EDT by Nathaniel_Hawkins]
Can you possible list what type of money orders were given to you. I have several phone numbers of different money order companies that can verify the information such as amount, if a stop payment has been issued, cashed, or stolen. If it was a Travelers Express or Western Union, I find it very difficult for them to alter the instrument as it has several security features to prevent it from being altered.

Money orders and cashiers checks are good alternatives to carrying large amounts of cash when you conduct business especially at auctions and property closings. When I purchase property at auctions I usually purchase cashier's checks in the denominations of 1,000 each. This protects me from loosing the money and the sellers with guaranteed funds.

Money order companies do not care if you purchase money orders for 1 penny. One year I paid 17 cents with a money order to the local tax office because they would not accept company checks or cash, but postal money orders. Hell I've seen a person send a $10 Western Union wire transfer with a fee of $15. People do that.

A fair warning, money orders do bounce.
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 11:01:19 PM EDT
Jeez, another horror story.....Good Luck my friend, if there is anything we can do to help to get these scumbags, let us know. Please keep us updated. Best of Luck.
Steven
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 3:41:54 AM EDT
Two Words to all who buy/sell by anonymous contact:

CERTIFIED CHECK

Drawn on a real bank that you can call and certify that the check is genuine and that the funds have been earmarked to pay for it.

Not money orders.
Not cashiers checks.
Not personal checks (major duh).

Illegitimi non carborundum. Caveat Emptor.


and hide the body well.

Link Posted: 11/20/2001 5:35:06 AM EDT
Help me out here, shooterX308. What's the difference between a certified check and a cashier's check? Why is certified better?

Pardon my ignorance.
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 5:38:58 AM EDT
-certified checks can be stopped almost as easily as a regular check.

-certified checks have been forged before. Not that tough to punch a hole in a regular check then run it thru your Epson printer for a color "certified" stamp look.

-this scam has been on going in AZ. Not only guns are being purchased. There have been reports of Harleys going the same way... be careful.
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 1:36:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2001 1:30:22 PM EDT by ILove2Shoot]
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 1:45:05 PM EDT
ONLY accept USPS money orders.
the can make it a federal charge of Mail fraud even if you do the sale in person!!
-Chuck
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 11:54:32 PM EDT
Very sorry to hear about your troubles!

As far as U.S.P.O. money orders, I have $676.25 floating out in space somewhere right now. I paid an extra $2.75 to have the post office track it down. They sent me a letter after I reported the m.o. missing in the mail. Basically they said I have to wait 60 days for replacement of the money order. If they find it has been cashed, they will notify me of that. The person I sent it to is someone I've dealt with before through AR15.com and I trust him completely. I actually figure the envelope is stuck in some post office somewhere waiting to be found and sent on it's way. BTW, I purchased and sent the money order on 10/12/01 and got my letter 11/01/01.
I do hope your situation works out to your benefit!
WSmac
Link Posted: 11/21/2001 5:07:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Help me out here, shooterX308. What's the difference between a certified check and a cashier's check? Why is certified better?

Pardon my ignorance.




No sweat. Say you have $1000 in your bank account. You want to buy my Bushy. You get a Cahsier's check for $1000 which is basically a personal check on your account written by the bank. The $1000 does not disappear from your account until I cash it and it goes through the usual bank process. You could easily get the cashier's check, mail it to me, and before I get it, overdraw you account either intentionally or accidentally. When I go to cash the check, it bounces back to me 'insufficient funds'; you have my Bushy and your $1000.

Now, the Certified Check: The bank immediately debits your account for the $1000. Its as good to me as cash, and I can call the back to certify it's good before I ship you the Bushy. Get the difference?

shooter
Link Posted: 11/21/2001 5:08:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vicg1:
-certified checks can be stopped almost as easily as a regular check.

-certified checks have been forged before. Not that tough to punch a hole in a regular check then run it thru your Epson printer for a color "certified" stamp look.

-this scam has been on going in AZ. Not only guns are being purchased. There have been reports of Harleys going the same way... be careful.



This is why you accept only certified checks drawn on a major bank that you can call and certify its validity
Link Posted: 11/21/2001 5:52:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2001 5:49:30 AM EDT by BigDozer66]

Originally Posted By shooterX308:

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Help me out here, shooterX308. What's the difference between a certified check and a cashier's check? Why is certified better?

Pardon my ignorance.




No sweat. Say you have $1000 in your bank account. You want to buy my Bushy. You get a Cahsier's check for $1000 which is basically a personal check on your account written by the bank. The $1000 does not disappear from your account until I cash it and it goes through the usual bank process. You could easily get the cashier's check, mail it to me, and before I get it, overdraw you account either intentionally or accidentally. When I go to cash the check, it bounces back to me 'insufficient funds'; you have my Bushy and your $1000.

Now, the Certified Check: The bank immediately debits your account for the $1000. Its as good to me as cash, and I can call the back to certify it's good before I ship you the Bushy. Get the difference?

shooter



I have discussed this with my bank about the cashier's check before. A cashiers check at my bank is a "Certified Check" and the money is debited immediately or you pay in cash!
I am sure that these are Federal standards that they go by.
You can call the bank that issued it and verify it. Thay are gauranteed if lost or stolen.
The post office has more things to worry about than some guy losing a few dollars. They are worried about anthrax, mail bombs etc.
Let me clarify...In no way am I saying that $3500 or so dollars is a little money! To me and most of you it is a lot of money!
To the Federal Government (USPS) it is nothing. Heck they waste more than that every hour! They are trying to catch the guys that commited mail fraud for Millions of $$$.

I hope you catch these worthless swine and get your stuff back.

BigDozer66
Link Posted: 11/21/2001 9:25:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2001 9:20:50 AM EDT by Vinnie]
I'd have to agree, a cert. check and cashiers check are the same thing. The reason you do either is to show the money is DEFINITELY there. You can't overdraw because the bank is holding the money until the check get's cashed. People ask for cert/cashiers check so they know the check is good. ie Car dealerships for the 1000 downpayment.

As to why would anyone write out a money order for 1.00? People "give away" stuff with the requirement that you send 1.00 for postage and handling. Check you kids cereal boxes. They do it all the time.
Link Posted: 11/21/2001 5:41:17 PM EDT
How about we start a AR15.com most wanted,
post there name, and all other information
that you have on the individuals, this way
we can look for them, one thing I learned
as a former peace officer is, criminals are
stupid, if they do it once, they will try
it again.
Link Posted: 11/21/2001 9:46:26 PM EDT
I feel for ya man, really. I hope you nail that POS. At least it wasn't somebody from these great boards. I will keep my eyes open for the serial #'s you posted. Please keep us updated.
Link Posted: 11/22/2001 1:10:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2001 2:40:32 PM EDT
Isn't there some stolen gun website, that lists all the serial numbers? Be nice if they weren't able to sell your guns to somebody else...
Link Posted: 11/22/2001 3:54:21 PM EDT


This protects me from loosing the money and the sellers with guaranteed funds.



Here we go again!
Link Posted: 11/22/2001 5:54:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2001 5:47:15 PM EDT by GizDog]
I hate to throw gas on an already raging fire but...

Per my credit union National City Bank in Indianapolis cashed Certified checks drawn on an out of state bank. The Certified checks were altered and the net was just over $6500.

I learned this when I deposited a large certified check and had to wait 10 business days to draw on it. WTF is this world coming to?
Link Posted: 11/22/2001 6:10:42 PM EDT
I think there is a siye called "GUN FAX" or something similar- you know, like CAR FAX. It lists the serial numbers of stolen weapons so you can know before you buy.
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