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4/25/2017 7:42:44 PM
Posted: 11/13/2001 3:09:28 PM EDT
Well, I was just about to purchase my first AR but it looks like I will have to wait 13 months (until I'm 21). I have yet to confirm it with police, but apparently "military-style assault-weapons" fall under many of the same restrictions as handguns in my state, requiring the same paperwork, etc. Any advice?

Anyway, the only other rifle I had been thinking about was the savage 10fp. What are the advantages of the 10fp (short action) and the 110fp (long action) respectively? Regardless of which I go with, I will probably get it in .308. Comments?

Any make of .308 that you would particularly recommend for plinking/range shooting? Something relatively inexpensive that will still fire reliably.

Thanks a lot
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 4:09:56 PM EDT
If you would like a bolt action tactical rifle, save up a little more and buy a Remington M700 Varmint Synthetic or a PSS. Much better rifle than the Savage. The Savage is accurate, don't get me wrong, but the action sucks and it comes with a crappy factory stock. I had one and was disappointed with it and later bought the M700. Never been happier.
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 4:41:27 PM EDT
Have you considered the Sig Sauer SHR(Swiss Hunting Rifle) in a .308? the one on the shelf in my store is 499.95 and it has the quietest safety of any bolt action rifle. Savages are ok, but yo ucan onlky get decent accuracy if you handload your own ammo out of it The Sig has a sweet trigger pull and is $40-69 dollars less than a remington BDL, and it doesn't have a cheap plastic syntetic stock like the remignton ADL. Don't get a Winchester model 70 if you go deer hunting with the gun b/c it has one heck of a loud loud loud and hard to work safety. .308 is perfect for deer. Too bad you can't live in GA, where you can buy "Assault Weapons" (Gosh I hate that term)

I guess your state doesn't want you to have a defense rifle, but you could get a long range hunting gun and commit murder from a mile away!
Damn Democrats
-Chuck
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 4:52:50 PM EDT
Go with the Savage, either action will work fine. Now I aint bashin remingtons, but their quality is suffering pretty bad here lately. The savage is very accurate. The plastic aint the best, but it works just fine. If i were to change anything about it it would be the stock though. The savage is quite a bit cheaper. If you go with the remington you will have tons of aftermarket goodies to work with, and any gunsmith worth a dang can work on it. Just handle both rifles and see which one fits you better. you cant go wrong with either of them.
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 4:59:26 PM EDT
A short action is designed around shorter bullets, ie. .308, 7mm-08, .223, etc. Long actions are designed aroun long bullets like 30-06, 300 Win Mag, 270 Win, etc.

If you have a choice, go with the short action. They tend to be stiffer, thus more accurate.
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 5:10:43 PM EDT
if i was getting a bolt gun for plinking and didn't want to spend alot of money i would get the savage 10fp in .223. My 110fp in .300 win keeps pace with my 700 pss in .308 at a hundred when punching paper, both with federal GM match. Savage stock is a little/alot flimsy, and the action is not as smooth. You can adjust the trigger on a savage just by turning a screw. savage is half the price of the pss,thats why i bought mine(didnt have the money at the time).
If i was going to do it over i would buy an old model 700 hunting rifle and shoot it while i built it up, most hunting rifles see little uses and can out shoot most people. Im not sure pss is worth what they get for them they still need lots of work out off the box.

just looking through the local paper i can find 700's with leupold scopes for 350-500 bucks. To me thats a good place to start. Nothing wrong with winchesters or rugers either. They all have good and bad points. Remingtons just have more parts available for them.
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 5:27:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 5:29:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/13/2001 5:25:31 PM EDT by zonan]
Thanks for the fast suggestions. I will definitely have to get to a store and check some of these out. The only problem with getting advice from a place where so many knowledgeable people reside is that I get almost as many different suggestions as I do responders...

I should mention that I was aware of the crappy savage stock and was planning to switch it out if I went that route. Maybe after all the upgrading I'd have to do I'd be spending as much as if I just got a better rifle to begin with. The price range I had been thinking of was something in the area of $700-800. I would like that to include decent optics, but I realize it can get expensive for a decent system, so I suppose I can manage up to $900, maybe $1000 for the whole thing.

rugger said:

if i was getting a bolt gun for plinking and didn't want to spend alot of money i would get the savage 10fp in .223


The reason I was thinking of going .308 is because I eventually plan on getting an AR in .223 and I'd like to have a heavier round for when the situation calls. Is this poor reasoning? I am a gun newbie compared to the rest of you.

AMHsix said:

Has Zonan been correctly informed? He can't buy an AR until he's 21? What kind of BS is that?


I could be completely wrong, as I haven't verified it with anyone official yet. I got that idea from the NRA legal section. Here's the info for my state: http://nraila.org/GunLaws.asp?FormMode=Detail&R=MN

The paper work for the gun transfer is the same for "military-style assault-weapons" as it is for handguns. Under the "purchase" section it says:

A handgun1 or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon may be sold by a dealer to a person who (1) presents a handgun transfer or carrying permit, or (2) who has undergone a seven day waiting period and a handgun transfer report has been filed.


Throughout the document it continually refers to handguns and "military-style assault weapons" together. I could be misinterpreting it, and if that's the case someone please tell me!
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 6:06:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zonan:
Well, I was just about to purchase my first AR but it looks like I will have to wait 13 months (until I'm 21). I have yet to confirm it with police, but apparently "military-style assault-weapons" fall under many of the same restrictions as handguns in my state, requiring the same paperwork, etc. Any advice?

Anyway, the only other rifle I had been thinking about was the savage 10fp. What are the advantages of the 10fp (short action) and the 110fp (long action) respectively? Regardless of which I go with, I will probably get it in .308. Comments?

Any make of .308 that you would particularly recommend for plinking/range shooting? Something relatively inexpensive that will still fire reliably.

Thanks a lot



Wowo. An AR-15 is just a long gun here in Wisconsin; 18+ to purchase. Sheesh! I thought only Illinois and Michigan had it bad here in the midwest.

Mike
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 6:06:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 6:08:56 PM EDT
I cannot believe there are specail restrictions on long guns because of causmetic features.....

oh wait in CA/.... nevermind that..

It's just a long gun.... not a machine gun.



About the savage.... if I were going to buy a bolt, new, I would buy the savage. I have heard so many good things about them. Anything you could want to know about wringing out the potentail od a savage can be found @ www.varminthunters.com

Clarify the laws about long guns before you commit... but Savage is a great gun.
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 6:32:55 PM EDT
thanks for the info and links guys. I have looked at some of the laws of the surrounding states (ND and Wis.) and neither mentioned "assault weapons" in the in the same context as handguns. I will ask just to make sure, but it doesn't look good. I could have my dad buy it, but I don't know the laws well enough to make sure both of us would be covered and doing everything legally. Maybe something like that will work out so I don't have to wait a year before shooting an AR.
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 6:52:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/13/2001 6:55:54 PM EDT by LARRYG]
If you are going .308, it will be the short action 10FP. No choice. Don't listen to the 'get a Remington' BS. It's all about the name in much the same way as 'get a Glock' is.

I have a 110FP in .30-06 and a 12FV in .223. I put the Choate Ultimate Sniper stock on both. Works great, very accurate.


Link Posted: 11/13/2001 7:05:07 PM EDT
It is totally legal for most people to purchase long guns in the next state over from where they are.
Might take a drive to WI, or such.
c-rock
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 7:13:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 7:18:47 PM EDT
Thats a beautiful rifle.
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 7:38:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:

Originally Posted By c-rock:
It is totally legal for most people to purchase long guns in the next state over from where they are.



...as long as the transaction follows the laws of BOTH the state of residence and the state of purchase. So that is a NO GO.

-Troy



Awww, he had my hopes up. Thanks for saving me a lengthy drive though.


LARRYG wrote:
If you are going .308, it will be the short action 10FP. No choice



Thanks, I finally understand. I am not set on .308, that just seemed to make sense because of the availability of it and such. What would be the pros and cons of going with 30-06 or something larger like that instead of .308?
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 7:53:22 PM EDT
You'll find better ammo availability in .308. You can shoot cheap, easy to find surplus. Or you can shoot the more expensive Match-grade stuff. The .308 is just easier to find at decent prices.
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 8:31:39 PM EDT
Have there been any new laws passed that make these semi automatic sporting rifles any more than just long gun with ugly furniture.

Are you in a state like Cali that has an outright ban or something?

I think this is a case of an over carefull FFL. An FFL isn't necessarily a lawer. He may also not be swayed into selling one to you even if you can provide proof that it is perfectly legal for him to do.

Go talk to another FFL in your area as well.
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 8:54:59 PM EDT
zonan-
its better to put a 700 dollar scope on a $200 rifle than the other way around.
if you planed on junking the savage stock and getting a new one. i would get a used "end of hunting season" remington 700, like i said i see them all the time in 30.06 or .308 with leupold varixIII's between $350 and $500. To start with good qaulity scope and good action.
You can then get a mcmillian or comparable stock. 700pss take offs are rediable available to since they are often upgraded. Then you can get a real barrel later such as an obermeyer, hart, blackstar or krieger. You can get an after market trigger, or have to factory one tuned. I would get a .308 since ammo is abundant. Rugers are also great actions and can often be had for less than remingtons, i think they are more bomb proof and more reliable. once again remingtons have more after market parts.
rugger
Link Posted: 11/14/2001 8:25:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BigMac:
Have there been any new laws passed that make these semi automatic sporting rifles any more than just long gun with ugly furniture.

Are you in a state like Cali that has an outright ban or something?

I think this is a case of an over carefull FFL. An FFL isn't necessarily a lawer. He may also not be swayed into selling one to you even if you can provide proof that it is perfectly legal for him to do.

Go talk to another FFL in your area as well.



I did not got this info from an FFL, but just from the overview of state gun laws that the nra has at nraila.org. It seems pretty conclusive, but hopefully this weekend I can visit some gun shops (and the police dept.) and see exactly what the law says.
Link Posted: 11/14/2001 8:29:10 AM EDT
I have another question for you all concerning the rifles you've recommended. Are they all limited to 4 round mags? I've heard that is what the savage uses, but are there higher capacity mags available for any of these? And would they be compatible from, say, a remington 700 and savage 10fp in .308? It would be nice to have a 10 rounder.
Link Posted: 11/14/2001 9:12:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/14/2001 4:53:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/14/2001 8:54:40 PM EDT
What are you guys paying for the 10FP's? My younger brother would like to get into a decent rifle and I think thats the way to go.

Link Posted: 11/15/2001 4:44:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By prebans:

Wowo. An AR-15 is just a long gun here in Wisconsin; 18+ to purchase. Sheesh! I thought only Illinois and Michigan had it bad here in the midwest.

Mike



As far as I know the only age limit MI has is 21 for hand guns. I don't think the laws in MI are as bad as everyone thinks. We have Shall Issue for CCW, I know guys that have C-III, 18 for any long gun, Semi-Auto, Military Assault rifles included.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 10:04:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By schapman43:
What are you guys paying for the 10FP's? My younger brother would like to get into a decent rifle and I think thats the way to go.




In another thread someone mentioned $400 but I think that's a pretty good deal. Savage lists a suggested retail price of $480 I think.
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