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Posted: 11/5/2001 10:14:28 AM EST
I picked one of these up at my local WalMart this weekend. I think its a good buy.

Beretta AL390
Gas action autoloader
12 guage
2-3/4 or 3" shells
Matte black finish
Black synthetic stock
28" barrel - looks hard chromed inside
3 chokes - improved, mod, full

$529

Stuff you don't get:
Sling swivels - stock is already drilled for one though.
You don't get the extra shims for changing drop / cast but these can be purchased separately

Its a soft shooter.

I might put a skull / cross bones decal on mine if I can find a good one...
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 10:44:50 AM EST
I think that is a great deal and I believe Beretta offers a tactical version with an extended tube which works well. You may want to copy it with yours.
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 10:54:23 AM EST
Hay this is interesting I was just at walmart and was looking for the same gun. I decided that I wanted a woodstock for sure though. But hay you can't get this gun no more.

So what did I do??
Asked them to Special Order a Beretta A391 Uricka 26" Barrel.

What I wanted to know is this, Can you buy replacement stocks to put back on the Gun?? Going back to the original Walnut.

I can tell you the A390 is a sweet shooting gun, its weight will be different however.

Benjamin

Link Posted: 11/5/2001 10:58:50 AM EST
On my first trip ever with a A390 I put 500 rounds through that Shotgun and came away without a bruise. Shooting clays. Fastest gun I have ever shot, I would guess that the A391 Uricka is adding up to be the best Automatic Shotgun for hunting that has ever been put to Market. With the Exception perhaps, of Browning Belgian , however the Remington 1100 is no slouch either. And the 11-87 is Awesome as well. God am I gonna do some hunting this year.
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 11:00:05 AM EST
And if I could find a place to hunt pheasant I would do that too.

Benjamin
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 11:03:58 AM EST
Oh yeah and they also make the A391 Uricka in 20 Gauge. As soon as I had the 12 Gauge model ordered I thought, damn why not get a 20 as well. You can use a 20 for everything, and you can use a 12 Gauge for hunting quail in a good solid wind. Hmmm. I don't know yet.


Link Posted: 11/5/2001 11:04:37 AM EST
Sounds like you might have to hump a whole army of shotguns with you on your hunting trip. Good luck.

I'm a clays shooter and the AL390 is a bit heavier than the newer 391 so, for me at least, the older model is better.

To answer you question about replacing a synthetic stock with wood, it can be done, but it can be expensive and also synthetic is going to hold up better in the field anyway.
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 11:19:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/5/2001 11:16:09 AM EST by Benjamin0001]
Hahaha, no I was just commenting on what I thought of each. However I like the wood, even though synthetic does hold up better. Well put it this way I might like my AR but when it comes to hunting , well... To me... the rustic look is just better. And somepoint in the future when I can afford it I would like to get an Heirloom quality over/under with a field scene on the side. And see to it that it is passed down our family.

www.swshotguns.com/A_and_S/photo_gal2/A2110big/a2110big.html

www.swshotguns.com/A_and_S/photo_gal2/A2210big/a2210big.html
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 11:22:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 11:32:41 AM EST
One reason that I like the 26" barrel comes from my youth reading Field&Stream. One of the writers wrote that shot reachs peak velocity at 26" after that you are actually hampering velocity by keeping the shot in the barrel. They are a little faster in the wingshot category. But if doesn't really matter if you are good with a shotgun then you are good with a shotgun. On the other hand people will stretch a goose guns barrel to 30" on a 10gauge to reach those geese that just love flyin high.

Benjamin
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 12:00:04 PM EST
I like 28-30" barrels. The longer barrels put a bit more weight forward making it easier to keep my barrel moving. 30" is good for sporting clays/trap but its a bit much for skeet.
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 4:08:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By ECS:
Sounds like you might have to hump a whole army of shotguns with you on your hunting trip. Good luck.

I'm a clays shooter and the AL390 is a bit heavier than the newer 391 so, for me at least, the older model is better.

To answer you question about replacing a synthetic stock with wood, it can be done, but it can be expensive and also synthetic is going to hold up better in the field anyway.



I know what you mean. I've got the 391 and the lighter weight changes the swing. There is a solution! Get the C&H mercury recoil reducer that replaces the magazine cap. The added weight out front not only eats up the already light recoil but changes the whole attitude of the gun.
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 6:32:01 PM EST
Where can those be purchased. I know that I will need one because the A390 felt just about perfect as far as balance was concerned.

Benjamin
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 7:28:31 PM EST
They sell Berettas at wal-mart? Damn. All they heve around here is 870's and 10/22's.
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 10:15:14 PM EST

I would guess that the A391 Uricka is adding up to be the best Automatic Shotgun for hunting that has ever been put to Market. With the Exception perhaps, of Browning Belgian

There is and was no Browning "Belgian" model of shotgun. Belgium was the manufacturing location of many Browning shotguns including the Double Automatic, A500G, A500R, and Superposed which is still made in Belgium right along with the newer Gold.
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 6:56:52 AM EST
A bit off the original topic but I have had the pleasure of shooting (other people's) old Browning Superposed models with solid chokes. Man they are nice..
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 7:40:09 AM EST
Those are nice guns, I almost got one at Wally.
Instead went to look at an 11-87 upland, didn't like it and the salesman said 'bet you'll like this' and brought out a nice used AL390 24" w/ wood. SOLD! Great shooter, swings like a dream, creampuff to shoot.
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 7:46:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By ECS:
I picked one of these up at my local WalMart this weekend. I think its a good buy.

Beretta AL390



I bought one of those at WallyWorld last year. I love it and it is a GREAT buy. You'll note that the cutoff switch is missing even though it is in the owner's manual - the receiver looks like an A390. I called Beretta to ask "WTF?" and they told me that the "AL390 Special Purpose" has no cutoff. I also told them that I didn't receive sling swivels or buttstock shims so they sent me a set free. I've shot a zillion rounds of trap with it, and killed some small game with it too.

The gun is designed to be their most completely indestructable version of the AL390. Be wary of the parkerized barrel, however - it will rust if not taken care of. Also, follow the directions carefully when taking the gun apart for the first time - there are a couple of tricks. Free hint: Use carb cleaner to de-carbon the gas cup.

Jay
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 8:07:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By JayC:

Originally Posted By ECS:
I picked one of these up at my local WalMart this weekend. I think its a good buy.

Beretta AL390



I bought one of those at WallyWorld last year. I love it and it is a GREAT buy. You'll note that the cutoff switch is missing even though it is in the owner's manual - the receiver looks like an A390. I called Beretta to ask "WTF?" and they told me that the "AL390 Special Purpose" has no cutoff. I also told them that I didn't receive sling swivels or buttstock shims so they sent me a set free. I've shot a zillion rounds of trap with it, and killed some small game with it too.

The gun is designed to be their most completely indestructable version of the AL390. Be wary of the parkerized barrel, however - it will rust if not taken care of. Also, follow the directions carefully when taking the gun apart for the first time - there are a couple of tricks. Free hint: Use carb cleaner to de-carbon the gas cup.

Jay



YOu should have seen me trying to figure out how to remove the bolt handle...DUH!.. it just pulls straight out!
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 8:23:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By ECS:
YOu should have seen me trying to figure out how to remove the bolt handle...DUH!.. it just pulls straight out!



Yea right. It took me an hour to get my bolt out the first time. I pulled and pushed and cursed - the whole action ended up locked up tight as a drum. Then I gave it a last mighty heave, and it popped apart like nothing - pieces flew all over the room. Seems you have to have the receiver facing in just the right direction...I'm still not quite on top of that one. One thing I did figure out though - you don't need to pull the bolt and trigger group much. I cleaned my gun's insides after about 500 trap rounds - the gas system was dirty (but not too bad - could've easily handled another 1000 rounds) but the inside of the receiver looked almost unfired. It'll be at LEAST a couple of thousand rounds more before I take the goddamned receiver apart again.

Jay
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 4:02:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 5:05:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/6/2001 4:59:17 PM EST by Rabbit9]

Originally Posted By Benjamin0001:
Where can those be purchased. I know that I will need one because the A390 felt just about perfect as far as balance was concerned.

Benjamin



WWW.BROWNELLS.COM
(assuming your talking about the mercury rod)
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 6:09:04 PM EST
Rabbit Nine, yes I am.

Jim Dandy, Yes the Browning Belgian is refering to the place of manufacture. However, it is a different type of Manufacture.

I was at a gunshop today and saw to SidebySide 16 gauge shotguns, one was Italian the other was a parker, both were for crap as far a looks go (they were very old; but that can be nice too) however, I got to thinking about it and I was wondering with the age of these weapons could they even take the pressure of a modern shotshell??? don't know. The parker wouldn't even breakover, and the Italian ones bore had severe wear.
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 6:15:32 PM EST

Jim Dandy, Yes the Browning Belgian is refering to the place of manufacture. However, it is a different type of Manufacture.

Care to elaborate? I own and have owned several Auto 5 Brownings (a shotgun made in both Belgium and Japan) of various vintages and manufacturing locations. Care to tell me what the difference is between my Belgian and Jap Auto 5s? I'd really like to know, aside from the "MADE IN JAPAN" moniker on one and the "MADE IN BELGIUM" moniker on the other and the softer barrel steel in the Belgian guns.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 8:45:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:

Jim Dandy, Yes the Browning Belgian is refering to the place of manufacture. However, it is a different type of Manufacture.

Care to elaborate? I own and have owned several Auto 5 Brownings (a shotgun made in both Belgium and Japan) of various vintages and manufacturing locations. Care to tell me what the difference is between my Belgian and Jap Auto 5s? I'd really like to know, aside from the "MADE IN JAPAN" moniker on one and the "MADE IN BELGIUM" moniker on the other and the softer barrel steel in the Belgian guns.



I have no idea what Benjamin is talking about but normally when shotgun folks refer to Belgian Brownings they are talking about the Browning Superposed Over/Unders, make by FN in Belgium. These shotguns have a different balance and swing due to their barrels which are solid choked. The newer barrels, with screw chokes have a lot more weight up front and they have a different balance point/swing.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 10:02:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/7/2001 10:34:31 AM EST by Jim_Dandy]
I'm a little curious as to what Benjamin0001 sees as the differences in the Jap and Belgian Brownings. The Citori was made with fixed chokes for a good little while, too. That point doesn't even enter into the argument.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 1:14:35 PM EST
Author Unknown:
The city of Liege in Belgium has been associated with the gun trade for centuries. Many of the products from this region are of indifferent quality, or built for military purposes, but fine double guns have also been made there for a long time. The most popular and well known of these is the Superposed shotgun designed by John Browning and his son Val. It is made by the arms giant Fabrique Nationale (FN) in several grades, as well as to special order. Browning Arms markets the guns in the U.S. The Superposed is one of the best known and most popular O/U guns ever designed. Another Belgian name worthy of respect is Francotte, an old firm that has been turning out quality doubles since early in the 19th century. Top grade Belgian guns are right up there with the Italian guns in price. In the U.S., a high grade Browning Superposed is one of the more available best guns on the used market."

And Again.

The original, designated B25, was made entirely in Belgium with all components manufactured in-house. By the 1980s, the components were proving to be expensive. FN had bought the Browning company in America, which was selling virtual copies of the B25 made in Japan by Miroku. It was decided to source parts from Miroku to be shaped, fitted and finished by FN's Browning custom shop in Herstal and sold as the Browning B125.

Costs in Belgium escalated, as they did in most European countries, and the B325 appeared, still very much made to the original Browning design but made entirely in Japan. Now the B425 has emerged. What is the difference? The difference lies solely in the method of construction of the barrels. Every other part is similar to previous models, which have all had chopper lump barrels, but Browning has changed to the monobloc system to construct the barrels on the B425. This is a less costly method as it is simpler than machining the breech end without 2ft or more of tubes getting in the way.

Like I said different manufacture.

Benjamin


Link Posted: 11/7/2001 1:18:01 PM EST
But since I am an honest man I will tell you that I have heard of the quality differences between Belgian shotguns and others(more domestic) I had no idea they were not referring to Automatics.

So I learned something as well and did mispeak.

Link Posted: 11/7/2001 1:23:33 PM EST
The B325 and B425 are not made on the Superposed design. They are part of the Citori family and some of the older Charles Daly shotguns.

The manufacturing processes utilized in Japan are no different than those used in Belgium. The Superposed has always been a more or less custom gun and as such, is assembled in only one shop so as to maintain consistency.

When you say Browning "Belgian" you are appearing to reference almost every shotgun marketed under the Browning name.

BTW, for those that don't know, the Franchi O/U shotguns are based on the Browning Superposed design. Another alternative if a Superposed is out of your price range.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 1:29:25 PM EST
Jim Dandy; You also need to know that I was under the impression that Browning Belgians havn't been manufactured for over 40 years.

So first off to find out that they made them until 1980 was something to me. Secondly IT IS TRUE THAT JAPANESE AND CURRENT BROWNING BELGIANS ARE MADE THE SAME. IS IS NOT TRUE THAT THEY WERE MADE THE SAME DURING THE 40's 30's or even the 50's and 60's
So lets understand that I was referring to a past and you are talking in the present. So there is really no argument just a historical difference.

Benjamin
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 1:30:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/7/2001 1:25:09 PM EST by Benjamin0001]
I almost bought a Citori, until I picked it up and it was so light I almost threw it to the ceiling. I would love to have a good over/under. But I will be damned if it weighs less then my watch.

Benjamin
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 1:36:03 PM EST
As I said before, I own and have owned several Auto 5s (including their American cousins from Remington and Savage) of both Jap and Belgian manufacture. All parts interchange and and metal has been finished to the same standards. I would even go so far as to say that the Jap guns are of slightly better quality due to their stronger barrel steel. Still the collectors (guys that don't shoot or hunt and only trade in paper values) remain unconvinced. BFD.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 1:38:16 PM EST
Actually, the Superposed is still being manufactured and is listed in Browning's catalog as a custom shop item. The Auto 5 (a gun that requires a tremendous amount of machining) was made in Belgium until 1976 (or 1973 depending on reference source).
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 1:42:52 PM EST

IT IS NOT TRUE THAT THEY WERE MADE THE SAME DURING THE 40's 30's or even the 50's and 60's

I'm going to disagree with that. I've had Auto 5s from the '30s (1932 to be exact), the '50s, and the '60s. No difference in the quality, fit or finish between those guns and my later Jap A5s. This is purely a myth created by collectors and dealers seeking to drive market prices higher. BTW, I am not a fan of the Citori. There are better guns out there.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 1:56:37 PM EST
Wait a second Jim. This is nothing to get hot over. Just a discussion. Yes the Japanese barrels are very likely to be better. I would by an A-5 in a second be it made in Belgium or Japan. I don't like that they are made in Japan but what the hell can I do about that. So if given a choice I would probably still by the Belgium manufactured one. And the collectors market is different from a shooters market. And god knows I would love to be some old shop keeper working out of a wooden house with a wooden floor turning out perfect shotguns fully engraved and with wood shaving and metal shavings all over my floor. That would suite me to a tee. I can see that very distinctly and clearly. There is something to the love affair in this. You want to hunt with a gun that has been lovingly and painstakingly handled (because although the gun may not know it, the owner does and that is a different psychology) And adds to value (although quite subjectively) You can't put a price on it. Its two different things all together. If the Argument is craftsmanship vs. Mass production. Well two different camps exist there to. I tend to favor both. I love craftsmanship, but I understand the bottom line. Its kinda like fly rods built individualy out of bamboo by a well known aritisan you will pay over $5000 for one.
And also I know that given the right tools and materials a Craftsman can turn out a complete gun with at least equal quality to a machine one.

But lets looks also from a investors point of view. Craftmanship does add value. They cost more in time and labor and materials, and wheather or not it is cost effective for 90% of us to own one or not is irrelevant. Because an Individual Craftsman need only make $50,000 a year and maybe less, but some of those finished peices can bring upwards of $30,000 dollars. And whether or not you or I could afford it is totally pointless because someone can. And this sets the market. So if it paper value or not it will end up being real dollar value because if someone owns a Savinelli and on paper its worth $27,000 dollars no one is going to touch it for less then that,ever. Guns are an objective store of value and have been and always will be. So is Gold and Property. Those are three items which will never go down in value. Look even at common Automatic shotguns. My dad bought his Remington 1100 20gauge sometime between 1968-71 time frame. He paid $150.00 for it. Now they go for $500.00 at least. He can turn around and sell that gun for more then he paid for it, even though it is somewhat used. And this works wheather or not it is considered a masterpeice or not.

Benjamin
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 2:01:31 PM EST
There is no difference in the craftsmanship between the Jap and Belgian Auto 5s. Period.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 2:01:33 PM EST
JimDandy Wrote:



I'm going to disagree with that. I've had Auto 5s from the '30s (1932 to be exact), the '50s, and the '60s. No difference in the quality, fit or finish between those guns and my later Jap A5s. This is purely a myth created by collectors and dealers seeking to drive market prices higher.



Jim I think you are begging the question. There is a difference. Stains are of different manufacture and compositions. So are the steals so are the parts in the gun. I would say your current models are probably better.
I would be glad that someone is driving market prices higher because this also allows for your purchase to appreciate in value. If you happen to have one.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 2:08:33 PM EST
If the problem is with who is driving the market that is different than what is driving the market. Personally collectors and investors do not bother me in the least. I find their presence satisfying.

You said that there is no difference between a jap A5 and a Belgian A5 both of current design. No they are probably both made with Numerical Control and Wood lathes(possibly also numerically controlled) their woods would be identical and their steals would be identical unless they are taken from two different locations and of different refinement.
This would be true from one company buying metal from one place and wood from one place and then shipping those to various places of manufacture to be turned into Browning A5's. No argument here.

Benjamin
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 2:13:06 PM EST
Also understand that when I say different I mean that in the strictest sense of the word. I am not saying better, which is what I think youare hearing. I am saying different.

Benjamin
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 3:20:34 PM EST

Stains are of different manufacture and compositions. So are the steels so are the parts in the gun.

Actually, the stains and wood varied quite a bit throughout the gun's Belgian production life (some have a red color, some have a deep brown color, and some have a blonde/caramel color). The quality of the steel varied quite a bit throughout the Belgian production as well. As much as I also dislike "MADE IN JAPAN," the Nips have to their credit been remarkably consistent in this regard.

The Auto 5 has never enjoyed CNC production. They've been a very labor intensive gun from the beginning and this is part of the reason behind its discontinuance. Hand engraving, machining and fitting don't come cheap.

I was one of the Jap Browning's biggest critics for a long time until I finally got convinced to try one. From a craftsmanship standpoint, they are identical to the Belgian guns. From a material standpoint, they are far and away better than their European counterparts.

Link Posted: 11/7/2001 3:22:52 PM EST
Did I read you right Jim they are discontinuing the A5??

Benjamin
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 3:34:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/7/2001 3:28:38 PM EST by Jim_Dandy]
It has been discontinued since the end of 1998. It had a good run, but for less money a guy could get a gas gun that's every bit as reliable and can handle all loads interchangeably without adjustment (like the Beretta that started this topic).

When my Dad bought his Sweet Sixteen in 1963, they were going for $145. By comparison, a Winchester 70 was going for $120 at the same time. When Browning brought out the Gold the handwriting was on the wall. When I bought my Light 20 in 1995, I gave $624 (everyone else wanted around $660). A brand new Gold that could handle all 3 inch and 2 3/4 inch loads without adjustment was about $100 less at the time. Now there's a version of the Gold that can handle everything up to 3 1/2 inch loads.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 5:20:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:

Jim Dandy, Yes the Browning Belgian is refering to the place of manufacture. However, it is a different type of Manufacture.

Care to elaborate? I own and have owned several Auto 5 Brownings (a shotgun made in both Belgium and Japan) of various vintages and manufacturing locations. Care to tell me what the difference is between my Belgian and Jap Auto 5s? I'd really like to know, aside from the "MADE IN JAPAN" moniker on one and the "MADE IN BELGIUM" moniker on the other and the softer barrel steel in the Belgian guns.


One diffenence is the resale value.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 5:39:44 PM EST

One diffenence is the resale value.

An example of the market artificially inflated by collectors.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 7:54:47 PM EST
Jim if people are willing to part with Hard Currency in order to obtain the Belgian (especially when they are no longer produced)
How can it be artificial?? If Hard Currency trades hands at a certain price that is the market level. If both are knowledgeable and both are agreeable and both are sure the market will continue to raise.

I know what it is, Jim is talking down the market so that he can corner the market on Browning Belgian A5's. Hahaha

Just Call Him Jim"Vanderbilt"Dandy Browning Auto Baron.

Benjamin
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 8:40:52 PM EST
Nooooooo. You've got a group driving a market built on misinformation to the unknowing and unwitting. Belgian made Auto 5s hold no advantage over Jap Auto 5s. They're like wearing a dark suit: you can walk down the street peeing and no one will ever know until you tell them.
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 7:50:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By Benjamin0001:
I almost bought a Citori, until I picked it up and it was so light I almost threw it to the ceiling. I would love to have a good over/under. But I will be damned if it weighs less then my watch.

Benjamin



You might want to try out the Browning 425 series. These are very popular target grade Over/unders that can take a tremendous amount of shooting.

Link Posted: 11/25/2001 10:04:01 AM EST
Rabbit9
Do you think the recoil reducer is worth the money ($55). Does it stick out farther than the mag cap does. I have a 391 with the wetlands finish I just got.
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 1:37:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By ECS:
I picked one of these up at my local WalMart this weekend. I think its a good buy.


I love this GFD!! Do you realize that if you tried to post this over in the GD zoo, you would have ten morons in ten minutes flaming you to a crisp for spending money at Wal-Mart?
I think I will say it again
I LOVE THIS GFD!!! Lets talk some guns boys!
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 4:31:01 PM EST
Two weeks ago, I picked up my AL391 Uricka. I am pleased, but I am going to have to cut the plug out of the gun because they have it limited to two shells in the magazine. Which I think is stupid but it is made in Italy and was made for their hunting laws. We can carry 4+1 here in OK unless you are hunting Dove then its 2+1 or 3+1 I can't remember. But anyways. Anyone have any experience with this sort of work. I don't know where to cut but I definately have the tools to do so. ??/ Any help Jim Dandy??

Link Posted: 11/25/2001 5:04:14 PM EST
Federal migratory game bird laws restrict you to three shot total capacity. This includes doves and waterfowl. Quail and woodcock are the only game birds in Oklahoma that do not have a magazine restriction as they are non-migratory.
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