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Posted: 10/29/2001 5:43:07 AM EST
bought a complete upper from bushmaster several years ago (one of many)......this particular upper had a bout 5k rounds thru it. Bolt broke in half at the cam pin. There is only one reason for this. Poor metal or a fault in the bolt. Sent it in for inspection....Bushmaster tells me its not thier part......bastards...I bought it as a complete upper. I have no other parts other than BM. So after thousands of dollars spent at BM, they pull this shit.
Just so you know.........my brother is a senior salesman for a huge steel supplier here in PA.........he did some checking and as it turns out, BM buys junk steel. I'll be damned if I buy any more BM parts.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 5:57:47 AM EST
That sucks bro, I thought their customer service was good, but I guess everybody has their money ahead of satisfied customers.

Junk steel? Can you give me a type? I got some Bushies and would like to know.

Thanks,
Ice
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 6:10:44 AM EST
I'm shocked myself......up until now, I had no prob with BM.
I just sent my brother an email and asked him to get me the names and info on bushmasters supplyers........as soon as he sends it to me, I'll post it.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 6:19:15 AM EST
Thanks, I dealt with them once on a problem, but usually, I just order parts and make sure they fit.

Take care,
Ice
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 7:29:50 AM EST
Perhaps you should check with whom you bought the upper from. Could they have perhaps swapped out the original bolt with another one? Or perhaps a less-than-honest employee of that store swapped a bolt out that he had? Bushmaster has always had a rep for quality although I don't know what their customer service rep has been.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 7:38:16 AM EST
bought the upper direct from BM. Its definitely a BM part. As a matter of fact, This was from a complete parts kit that I used to build a Car16.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 8:12:59 AM EST
WHen I bought my Bushmaster, the bolt did look like shit. It has the dullness of a peice of pot metal??? It made me wonder??

Ben
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 9:18:56 AM EST
Bushmaster doesn't have a lifetime warranty, 1 year parts & labor. I doubt ANY AR manufacture would give you a new replacement bolt for an upper you bought years ago and 5k rounds later. Parts break thats life...
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 9:27:01 AM EST
Davidson's is a distributor for Bushmaster as well as others and gives a lifetime warranty on all of their guns. In case anyone is interested. Prices are good,also.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 9:33:57 AM EST
Tough break!
I can sense your disappointment, but, as stated this is an old part with thousands of rounds throught it.
I believe if you bite the bullet and just buy the new part, you'll be happier than harboring the bad feelings toward Bushmaster.
This may have been one of those "shit happens" kinda things.
Bushmaster is the best and they're most likely doing what must be done to cover their and your butts.
If there is positively no way to prove the defective part originated with them, it's easy to see why they take the position they do.
Sorry for the bad time, but, get the part and shoot on!
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 10:43:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2001 10:39:22 AM EST by LS1Eddie]

I doubt ANY AR manufacture would give you a new replacement bolt for an upper you bought years ago and 5k rounds later.


Too bad Thompson Center doesn't produce ARs. Sent a frame back after a zillion shilouette loads and they rebuilt it free-of-charge. A friend sent one in that was so worn out it wouldn't stay locked. They sent him a new frame free-of-charge. I've have two similar experiences with Dan Wesson.

It's difficult to blame a manufacturer for not cover worn/broken parts after a certain period of time, but it's odd that other companies go out of their way to keep the customer happy.


Bushmaster is the best...


I agree; Bushmaster builds the very best Bushmaster.

Eddie
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 2:57:43 PM EST

5K is a little soon for it to go, but it happens and that's right where they usually break, BTW. It's possible to find cracks in bolts at any time.
*That's why there are a few pages in the TM on inspecting the bolt.*
I've had one break too, it's not the end of the world.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 3:28:07 PM EST
I just got my PCR rifle kit from Oly, and the bolt and carrier look great! I am surprised by the overall quality of the upper. I only hope it shoots as good as it looks!

I know it must suck what RAVYN had to go through, but if others were right, and it only has a one year warranty, you are SOL.... even if you never fired the sucker, it's still OOW.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 4:04:58 PM EST
Dan Wesson used to be great for repairs...........even when it was my fault. They always fixed it at no cost to me, sometimes while I waited.

OSA
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 6:25:55 AM EST
I'm not shocked...
I've had two friends have problems with their Bushmasters in the last year.
These were both LE models.

One went out to shoot it and the "key" broke off the bolt.
The other went to shoot his and his flash suppressor came off the gun (it was the threaded type.) The civilian model Bushy he had bought before that was almost impossible to zero.
I saw a post somewhere, maybe here, from a guy who had bought a Bushmaster and the gun would just not run. He replaced the bolt with one made by Colt and the gun ran fine.

These are the only problems I have ever seen/heard of and for each one, I know 10 who have never had a problem.

But, I have to agree w/ BM... You bought it several years ago and have several thousand rounds through it.
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 7:01:03 AM EST
If I could fix a part on my car, that is under a FULL warranty, for $50 (the cost of a complete bolt), then I would not even BOTHER taking it to the dealer, and just fix it myself.

I mean seriously, things break. Big deal, $50, and you are up and running again.

I dont blame Bushy... They make great rifles, and are under no warranty obligation fix it.

Now, saying it's not their part, and trying to use that as an excuse, that's another story.

But it's not worth my time, shipping costs, or frustration when $50 fizes the problem.
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 7:58:07 AM EST
What are the markings on this bolt?
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 8:16:30 AM EST
thats why you should magnuflux your parts before
you shoot every time.
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 11:47:17 AM EST
geez guys,
some of you don't have very high expectations of your guns do ya?

5K rounds on a bolt is like saying 50 rds. Thats nothing. My point is.... a bolt shouldn't break in half after "50K ROUNDS" let alone 5K....and then have a company disavow ownership of the bolt because the steel is junk and they don't want a major problem. If you have a bolt break in combat.....you have a major malfunction and not easy to clear.

Good thing you guys are only gonna use yours for target practice...:-)
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 6:01:13 PM EST
A Bolt should last many times longer than 5K rounds. Did you send QPI a copy of your invoice with the bolt?
Link Posted: 10/31/2001 3:36:13 AM EST
No paperwork on that upper. Its definitely out of warranty but I have a concern now that several other bolt carrier assys that I have are also faulty. They were bought at the same time. I just got a bug up my ass that BM is trying to weasle out of a potential liability problem.
I am having them ship the upper and parts back to me and I will get my brother to do a lab analysis on the broken part and also a bushmaster bolt from the same time period that I can document.
Link Posted: 10/31/2001 4:49:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By RAVYN:
geez guys,
some of you don't have very high expectations of your guns do ya?

5K rounds on a bolt is like saying 50 rds. Thats nothing. My point is.... a bolt shouldn't break in half after "50K ROUNDS" let alone 5K....



I don't know how to explain this to you, but there is probably a MTBF calculated on the bolt. It would be the average # of rounds fired before failure. So, yours was on the lower end of the spectrum, so to speak. Somebody else has one that will never fail ;)


As far as not having very high expectations, well I at least have enough experiance to know that anything can break at any time, so be prepared.
That's why they put ejection seats in military aircraft.

As far as Bushmaster stiffing you, that's another story.
Link Posted: 10/31/2001 5:46:58 AM EST
Waldo,
so your saying that you think 5k rounds is acceptable before a major unfixable battlefield malfunction!!??
You can be in the "other" unit...;-)

I reallize that most of us have BM guns and your trying to defend your purchase,......5 of mine are bushys...........but the fact is, is that every time I pull the trigger, I'll have to wonder when this will happen again....I'll prolly just get all my carrier parts magnafluxed.
But don't try and argue with me that 5k is acceptable. Its not and you know it. You'd be foolish to get your life on that kind of part.
Link Posted: 10/31/2001 3:44:26 PM EST
Should a bolt last more than 5k ? Sure it should but S#!+ Happens ! Get at a new stripped bolt and get on with life.....
Link Posted: 10/31/2001 4:19:15 PM EST
One question. Was that the bolt that broke or the bolt carrier?


Vulcan94
Link Posted: 10/31/2001 7:40:32 PM EST
though colt has poor reputation in regards to customer service their product is better than BM this has been my experience. I still will do business with BM.
Link Posted: 11/1/2001 2:49:08 AM EST
5K rounds and the only thing you've had crap out is a bolt part? Man, get a spares kit and get on with life. I haven't had any failures yet, but then I lose the damn parts so often I probably rebuild my whole rifle every 6 months or so!
Link Posted: 11/1/2001 7:23:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By RAVYN:
Waldo,

I reallize that most of us have BM guns and your trying to defend your purchase,......5 of mine are bushys...........but the fact is, is that every time I pull the trigger, I'll have to wonder when this will happen again....I'll prolly just get all my carrier parts magnafluxed.
But don't try and argue with me that 5k is acceptable. Its not and you know it. You'd be foolish to get your life on that kind of part.



First off I own *ZERO* Bushmasters (many ARs, but no Bushmasters) So I'm not trying to justify anything.

I'm trying to explain the real world to you, especially when it comes to manufactured items.
"MTBF" is "Mean Time Between Failures" It's an average. Some will fail sooner than others, it's a FACT. It may not be acceptable to you, but it is still a fact.

As far as wondering what happens when you pull the trigger and nothing happens. You go through a quick drill to see what's wrong if you have time, or yell SHIT and grab your sidearm.


I can see you being pissed that Bushmaster would not own up to it being their part, really.

If you don't like betting your life on Bushmaster (as you said), build your own.
(That's what I do)

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