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Posted: 10/26/2001 10:49:54 PM EDT
I was in the local shop the other day and the guy was telling me that Glock was the original choice for standard issue side arm in the military over the Beretta, but Glock wouldn't let us build a factory within the states so beretta got the contract. Is this right? I know that sig was real close in the running.
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 12:37:11 AM EDT
That sounds right. That's why we are didn't use the Lugar in WW1 or WW2. Niether 9mm or .45 ACP. Lugar wouldn't allow their guns to be licensed. That goes for the FN-FAL during Vietnam too.
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 5:40:00 AM EDT
I doubt this story very much.

The Army demands a positive safety on all firearms, especially pistols. Prevention of troop accidents and "friendly fire" are paramount. Glock would have required too many modifications to meet this requirement.

The Glock may have entered the competition and performance may have been better than the Beretta, which I doubt, but the lack of a safety killed the deal even before the made-in-USA requirement.

The open slide design of the M9 makes clearing stoppages very easy; closed slide on the Glock is hard to clear.

Both my Glock 21 and M9 have worked flawlessly.

-- Chuck


Link Posted: 10/27/2001 5:46:56 AM EDT

That's why we are didn't use the Luger in WW1 or WW2. Neither 9mm or .45 ACP. Luger wouldn't allow their guns to be licensed.

Another falsehood. There is no "Luger" company and never was. The Luger design, which is a derivative of an American design by Hugo Borchardt, was licensed all over Europe at various arsenals and weapons facilities. The only company to ever use the "Luger" trademark is Stoeger of Hackensack, New Jersey.
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 5:51:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2001 6:22:11 AM EDT by BKVic]
One of the guidelines for the new pistol to replace the .45 was you had to be able to restrike the round by just pulling the trigger. With the Glock if you have a failure to fire you have to work the slide to recock it. It is my understanding that the Glock was never in the race because of this and the Beretta's biggest challenger in the trials was the Sig 226. The Beretta came in at a lower price and won the contract.


BKVic
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 6:24:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2001 6:19:05 AM EDT by BKVic]
ok, I went serching for the website that I remembered reading my info on and here it is.


BKVic


www.wwa.com/~dvelleux/berttam9.htm#serv
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 7:36:58 AM EDT
HEY GUYS:GUNNUTS HERE,I think it was SIG that won ,but cost more than the 92.
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 7:38:30 AM EDT
The Sig did win and the Air Force and some sec-ops use them right now.
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 8:27:10 AM EDT
Glock was not in JSAAPs 1 or 2 (any one who claims it won, either is full of it or MSU). The SIG one by a subjective margin, but in hard numbers it tied the Berretta. The original SIG bid was lower, but when they went with spares and mags, and factor in we wanted to put cruise missiles in Italy, Beretta won.
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 8:47:14 AM EDT
I believe all branches of the military are now using the Sig in one fashion or another. In the Air Force, mostly Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI) "Federal Agents" are assigned the Sig pistols. I know of no other AF units using it today. I know there are several Navy units using it, and I believe the Army is using it for CID, simply because it is easier to conceal.
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 6:10:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2001 6:04:14 PM EDT by blkgun223aholic]
Well in my own trials Glock won (I've owned them all)
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 6:02:52 AM EDT
The SIG P228 is the M11 Pistol. 9mm.

Special operations units, which can use any pistol they want, typically shun 9mm and are still using .45ACP. Several different models in use.

Note the Taurus PT92 is the original Beretta M92S, with the frame mounted safety. This is a much better arrangement for a combat handgun in my opinion as it's easy and natural to depress the safety with the thumb to let the pistol fire. The M9's P38-style safety seems better suited to troop safety than combat use, it's hard to accidently place in the fire position -- heck it's hard to even put a bullet in the chamber without putting the pistol on safe.

-- Chuck
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 6:16:46 AM EDT
Glock wasn't even considered, Army wanted something double action. I have and old SOF magazine that goes into the trial in detal.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 7:27:32 AM EDT
Question: Are fighter pilots allowed to choose their carry sidearm?

Reason for this question, I swear I saw on the news a fighter pilot preping for a flight and he was checking a GLOCK for his sidearm.

BTW Chuck, Glock did make a version with a positive safety. I can't remember which country demanded it.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 9:38:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ConnYankee:
Glock wasn't even considered, Army wanted something double action. I have and old SOF magazine that goes into the trial in detal.


You are correct sir, the glock wasnt even considered because it didnt fit the criteria.
GG
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 11:53:34 AM EDT
Guzzler --

I did read recently that Glock had produced a pistol with a positive safety. Thought it was a recent version.

-- Chuck
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 12:43:20 PM EDT
The Sig won but they did not come close to the price that Beretta offered.
That is if you want to believe the Army documentation on the tests.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 4:08:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Nick1950:
The Sig won but they did not come close to the price that Beretta offered.
That is if you want to believe the Army documentation on the tests.


Obviously they lost since berretas are used.
GG
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 5:06:14 PM EDT

The Army demands a positive safety on all firearms, especially pistols.

The M11 doesn't have one, does it?
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 5:13:45 PM EDT
I know in the Air force OSI and PJ's can carry the sig or beretta whichever they choose. as the question concerning if fighter pilots can choose? in one answer NO! for good reason.
John
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