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777
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Posted: 10/26/2001 2:05:41 PM

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
I have seen the wood buttstocks that TAPCO is advertising and it got me thinking.....has anyone ever seen a complete wood furniture set for AR's? I have always had AK's and Garands, so I have grown accustomed to wood.
Could someone duplicate them on some kind of wood-working machine if given a regular plastic stock set to work from?

Thanks for your advice.
b0ne
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Posted: 10/26/2001 3:21:24 PM
Well, yeah, it could be duplicated. Anything's possible.

Never saw a complete wood furniture set, just buttstocks, pistolgrips, and thumbhole stocks that combine the two into one piece.

The only problem is, the AR wasn't really designed to use wood, and the plastic pieces are rather thin in certain areas, which could be too thin for wood. For example, the tabs on handguards, or the thin top and sides of the buttstock that surround the buffer tube. The direction of grain would just love to split here, I'm thinking. A wooden buttstock could be made stronger in this area by using some sort of reinforcement, such as a metal or plastic tube epoxied in place to give the wood strength and hold the grain together, but then it might be too thick to have clearance for the charging handle. Just a few problems/ideas off the top of my head.

AR wasn't designed for wood from the beginning, so its issues never came up.

But you could make your own if you had the tools, yeah. The only question is, would they be strong enough to be worth the trouble of making (or buying) them, without worrying about breakage.

A thumbhole type stock/pistolgrip would be stronger than two separate pieces but I dunno if you like that sort of thing.

I don't know how those wooden buttstocks, thumbholes, and pistolgrips are made, so I can't comment on them myself.

I love wood too.
No_Expert
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Posted: 10/26/2001 3:31:11 PM
My AR I'm building will have wood buttstock and wood pistol grips. (when it's done)

Really, pictures and website are coming...it's cause I'm buying stuff as I can. but I think it'll look good.
course, there aren't wood forward grips...so that will be steel rods. ('sides, wood wouldn't ventilate too good.

No_Expert.
Armed_Scientist
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Posted: 10/26/2001 3:39:43 PM
I think what would be more viable would be sythetic furniture with a wood veneire (sp?).
b0ne
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Posted: 10/26/2001 3:43:50 PM
[Last Edit: 10/26/2001 3:39:34 PM by b0ne]
I think wooden handguards would work fine if they had metal tabs attached to them for retaining.

Ventilate? They would ventilate the same as plastic handguards if they had the same size and number of holes in them. However, wood does insulate pretty well... good for your hands, bad for the barrel if you like to rip off lots of rounds in the shortest time possible.

In addition to the holes, you could also add slots between the two halves to improve air circulation (although some might call them "dirt collectors". Sort of like the slots in AK handguards.

I'll be waiting for your pics, seems interesting in the novel sense of the word.

How are you going to keep the thin part of the stock that fits around the buffer tube from splitting down the grain? It seems to me that it would do so sooner or later unless it was really babied. Are you going to reinforce it or just make it thicker, or something else?
Green_Furniture
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Posted: 10/26/2001 3:45:34 PM
No_Expert, why couldn't you have someone make you wooden forwards?

Nevermind, I've been beaten to the punch.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=122&t=193027

Coal Creek Armory, Inc.
www.coalcreekarmory.com
po89mm
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Posted: 10/26/2001 3:57:10 PM
Believe it or not colt actually made a run of SP1 AR-15's in walnut, Pistol grip triangular hand guard and all. It was the spitting image of a conventional AR-15 but in walnut.

I believe they were called comanche's(sp?).

I actually saw one used in a local service rifle match. If I see the owner of that rifle again im going to ask HER out on a date too.
No_Expert
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Posted: 10/26/2001 3:57:27 PM

Originally Posted By Green_Furniture:
No_Expert, why couldn't you have someone make you wooden forwards?

Nevermind, I've been beaten to the punch.



well, partly cause the barrel is free-floated, and making wood grips in a free-float tube would require it to be thicker and therefore require more holes for ventilation...which would weaken the overall structure yet again.
rapid fire is not an issue, I am building this as a range (target) gun not a SHTF piece.

anyways, I am ordering the last coupel pieces I need this week to make it a "shootable" rifle. the wood furniture will be ordered on a paycheck later to be named (2 -4 weeks) so it will have plastic stocks the first time it goes out.
DPMS has a wood stock on their website, but it is considerably more than the one I'm ordering.

No_Expert

b0ne
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Posted: 10/26/2001 4:11:08 PM
You could simply use a metal tube and epoxy it inside a wooden tube, so the metal would be the actual tube itself, while the wood just provided a nice feel and good looks.

Did I say good? Maybe in a weird way.
Rapid_Fire
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Posted: 10/26/2001 5:35:49 PM
[Last Edit: 10/26/2001 5:30:11 PM by ronin2001]
I remember a catalog I got some years back(80's).
I don't remember the manufacturer, but it was one of the big guys, Springfield Armory, Federal Ordanance, Rock Island Ordanance, etc..But they had a line of Wooden furniture. they even had it mounted on Bright Nickel AR's. These were presentation grade guns. One was a Vietnam Commemerative, as I remember. Very nice looking Rifles. I was a regular at the gun shows back then, and I can't recall ever seeing one in person. There's bound to be a few collectors out there who have a couple stashed in their safes. back then, AR's(Colts) were selling for $375.00, NIB(Wish I'd have bought a truck load of them). These fancy guns were close to a thousand. But they did look kinda neat.

Rich
Striker
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Posted: 10/26/2001 9:51:05 PM
This pic was posted by a member a while ago. I saved it because I thought the wood furniture looked great. I apologize for the fact I can't remember who posted it and I hope they don't mind me posting it now. If so let me know and I'll delete it. You have to admit..the wood looks awesome.

911 - government sponsored Dial a Prayer.
GreyGhost
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Posted: 10/27/2001 6:13:32 AM
[Last Edit: 10/27/2001 6:08:57 AM by GreyGhost]
I researched this topic about a year ago.I looked high and low for a wood furniture set.Here's what I found out----

1.Nobody makes a complete wood furniture set anymore.The best you can hope for is to find a old Springfield set.

2.DPMS has a walnut buttstock and pistol grip listed on their website.That's great but to me it's going to look stupid with a black,plastic handguard.

3.I contacted 2 different people who make custom stocks for AK's & FN's---they both said they could do it but they were worried about the strength of the handguards since they would have to be relatively thin.The price for a complete set of furniture was like $350

So that ended my quest for wood furniture.If anybody started making them they would sell like hotcakes.Try this,a company called Ironwood Designs makes beautiful wood furniture for FN's.Go to the FNFAL forums and see if you can find a website for them.Put a bug in their ear about AR's and keep us posted.I'd still love to have wood.
www.fnfal.com

Good Luck
Striker
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Posted: 10/27/2001 9:14:45 AM
Why wouldn't metal end caps and fiberglass reinforcing work? If the hand guards would be thin anyway a layer of fiberglass matte and resin wouldn't add that much weight. I'm not sure how much heat they would stand though.
Or an aluminum inner skin much like the heat shield with wood inlay.
911 - government sponsored Dial a Prayer.
777
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Posted: 10/28/2001 9:10:16 PM
Thanks for all of your information, guys. There was more than I expected! I forgot to mention, I have even found a wood stock set for my HK 91 clone. Looks like a CETME, really.

On the DPMS site, I found the Walnut Tac-Grip www.shooterstore.com/acb/showprod.cfm?&DID=90&CATID=494&ObjectGroup_ID=1360
but could not find a wood butt-stock. Have I missed it?

No_Expert, from where are you ordering your stock set? Please post a picture on this thread when you're done!

Striker, WOW!!! Thanks for that picture. I sure hope that the owner of that gun chimes in and give us some information.

Because of GreyGhost's suggestion, I think that I will go and check with Ironwood Designs. I will come back and post any positive results that I get.

Thanks again.
Striker
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Posted: 10/28/2001 9:14:33 PM
From what I can remember..I think a family member bought a colt SP1 that came with the plastic stocks and the wood set. They sold them this way for a short period of time. I could be way off but I think it was something like that.
911 - government sponsored Dial a Prayer.
Mortech
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Posted: 10/29/2001 1:00:52 AM
Nice pic Striker ! I just had to leach it myself .
777
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Posted: 10/31/2001 10:36:31 AM
I wrote to Ironwood Designs & and pointed out this thread to them. Got a reply from a real congenial guy named Matt. This is his reply;

Thank you for your inquiry. I have had a few requests for AR 15 stock sets over the last few months. Currently we are reworking our business so that we can build such creatures. We have been building AK and FAL stocks in large quantities over the last 3 1/2 years.
We have spent the last few weeks digging into our CAD software learning the the capabilities and limitations of doing pure CNC cut stocks.
In the past we have used a copy lathe to profile and sand the part, then our CNC router to do the inletting and fitting cuts. This process is cost effective if you are doing 100 unit minimum runs, but not effective doing smaller custom runs.
Over the next few months we will be doing some prototype runs of various stock sets. We are planning on programming numerous stocks for popular military style rifles. Our goal is to set up so that we are capable of building, and keeping in inventory, numerous styles in smaller quantities. Less set up and production time, more product available at a lower production cost.
I do have a web site www.Ironwooddesigns.com you can take a look at what we do, and the variety of products that we build.
I anticipate at least a few months before we have the system in place and are producing at random new models such as the AR stocks. I am confident that we will achieve this goal as we are already making incredible progress in our programming capabilities.
Check back with me from time to time as well as keeping your eye on the site.
Once again, thank you for the inquiry. We will have many new innovative products and reproduction parts available throughout the coming 6 months.

Matt
IWD


Sounds promising, huh? I know I'll be watching.




Shazbat
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Posted: 10/31/2001 12:44:37 PM
Not to knock Ironwood, but you could be waiting for a while - even when they do start getting the tooling set up for AR furniture. IIRC it was quite a few months people were waiting over on the FAL board for Ironwood to begin production.

The stocks do look fantastic however, so it may just be worth the wait.
Stokes
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Posted: 10/31/2001 1:46:08 PM
These sets look nice, but the Sprinfields are beautiful. There is an outfit that uses woodgrain tape on float tubes, but they are just too gross.


Chicago
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Posted: 10/31/2001 3:36:13 PM
Stokes, that's a good looking rifle, is it yours?
(I love Diamonds!)
Stokes
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Posted: 10/31/2001 4:15:07 PM
Yeah, I sell the wood and the recievers, so I keep one set up just for show.
LocknLoaded
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Posted: 10/31/2001 4:54:58 PM

Originally Posted By Stokes:
These sets look nice, but the Sprinfields are beautiful. There is an outfit that uses woodgrain tape on float tubes, but they are just too gross.





I have to admit that looks nice with the wood.
No_Expert
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Posted: 10/31/2001 10:30:18 PM

Originally Posted By 777:
Thanks for all of your information, guys. There was more than I expected! I forgot to mention, I have even found a wood stock set for my HK 91 clone. Looks like a CETME, really.

On the DPMS site, I found the Walnut Tac-Grip www.shooterstore.com/acb/showprod.cfm?&DID=90&CATID=494&ObjectGroup_ID=1360
but could not find a wood butt-stock. Have I missed it?

No_Expert, from where are you ordering your stock set? Please post a picture on this thread when you're done!

Striker, WOW!!! Thanks for that picture. I sure hope that the owner of that gun chimes in and give us some information.

Because of GreyGhost's suggestion, I think that I will go and check with Ironwood Designs. I will come back and post any positive results that I get.

Thanks again.



DPMS has both pieces, buttstock and pistol grip... separately... have not found anyone with fore ends yet. will post pictures when I get them. I will be ordering from FAC, they are a bit cheaper, and most of the stuff they sell is from DPMS.

No_Expert
777
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Posted: 11/1/2001 10:21:45 AM
[Last Edit: 11/1/2001 10:18:38 AM by 777]
No_Expert, in my previous post, I said,

On the DPMS I found the Walnut Tac-Grip www.shooterstore.com/acb/showprod.cfm?&DID=90&CATID=494&ObjectGroup_ID=1360
but could not find a wood butt-stock. Have I missed it?



Has anyone been able to find it on their site?
And does anyone have anything other than the sniper style grip?



No_Expert
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Posted: 11/1/2001 9:52:54 PM
[Last Edit: 11/2/2001 4:15:21 PM by Striker]

Originally Posted By 777:
No_Expert, in my previous post, I said,

On the DPMS I found the Walnut Tac-Grip www.shooterstore.com/acb/showprod.cfm?&DID=90&CATID=494&ObjectGroup_ID=1360
but could not find a wood butt-stock. Have I missed it?



Has anyone been able to find it on their site?
And does anyone have anything other than the sniper style grip?



Sorry, I guess I was vague. here are two links for DPMS wood stocks, the second is their thumbhole one, and no, I've never seen a "standard" wood grip, just the "sniper"

www.shooterstore.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=90&Product_ID=11056&CATID=494

and

www.shooterstore.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=90&Product_ID=6245&CATID=494
No_Expert (sorry the links aren't active)
Ustulina
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Posted: 11/2/2001 1:12:54 PM
Neat discussion--

I think that the best solution to the forend would be overlaying a free float tube or A1 foreend with wood veneer. I am pretty sure that if Bear archery was able to back wood core limbs with aluminum (albeit unsuccessfully) back in the 60s, it would be totally possible to successfully glue veneer to metal or fibreglass backing for a STATIC application.

Isocyanate/urethane glues would be the best bet in this application, and there are now some some readily available consumer glues of this type (Gorilla Glue and Elmer's even has a line now).

I don't know how to lay the veneer to perfectly contour the underlying foreend, but you could soften the wood chemically, or via heat/steam. A vacuum bag like what they use for fancy furniture projects, or simply binding the work with elastic straps would probably provide the pressure needed for good bond between veneer and substrate.

Veneer 1/16" or smaller would be better, but for dressy wood, that's the thickness range you're likely to encounter anyway.

There are woodcraft books out there that would be very helpful. Veneer-related books from Taunton Press would be a good start.



http://www.wood-veneers.com/ was a site I had on file for veneers. Haven't checked it out for a while.

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