like I would turn anything in,,if I had anything,,it hasn't helped that all these dot and towel heads etc. have invaded this country in the past 20 years,,who let the dogs in? damm,Europeans can't get in this country,,what aholes set the quotas? The Government will try to use these f-ers who by the way will not fight let alone die for this Country (US) sure I'm generalizing, but I bet I'm 95% accurate....wake up!

Just called my congressman and senators offices and gave them my opinion personally.

Hope they get the message.

Tate

I just did some research on the bill that passed the Senate, and the final passed bill is not yet available on the web.  It gives no ETA either.

My letter will be off today.

Found the Bill online finally after some research....

There are 3 versions of this bill.  You want section 1062.

thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c107:2:./temp/~c107ZPgVWX::

This is what was passed in the senate.



   (e) ESTABLISHMENT OF DEMILITARIZATION STANDARDS.--(1) The Secretary of Defense shall prescribe regulations regarding the demilitarization of military equipment.

   (2) The regulations shall be designed to ensure that--

   (A) the equipment, after demilitarization, does not constitute a significant risk to public safety and does not have--

   (i) a significant capability for use as a weapon; or

   (ii) a uniquely military capability; and

   (B) any person from whom private property is taken for public use under this section receives just compensation for the taking of the property.

   (3) The regulations shall, at a minimum, define--

   (A) the classes of significant military equipment requiring demilitarization before disposal; and

   (B) what constitutes demilitarization for each class of significant military equipment.

   (f) DEFINITION OF SIGNIFICANT MILITARY EQUIPMENT.--In this section, the term ``significant military equipment'' means equipment that has a capability described in clause (i) or (ii) of subsection (e)(2) and--

Just wrote them. I focused on the aviation issue, which is really important to be coming from a family of pilots. (My grandpa has his P-51 from the war)

This is serious stuff people, and we need to nip it in the bud NOW!!!
Don't sit back and expect this provision to be struck down by the courts as unconstitutional. Just look at the GCA of 68, and the "assault weapons" ban of 94 as your guide.
Fight this bad legislation BEFORE it is on the books!

Check out... www.aero-news.net/indexnews1.htm (about 3/4's of the way down the page) for a list of, and links to all the members of both the House and Senate Armed Services Committees.
 
 At very least, write the Senators and Reps from your own state, as well as the Chairmen, and ranking members from both parties.
I know I am!    

Now... where did I put those stamps???

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24889
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOMELAND INSECURITY
Covert gun grab in Congress?
Firearms owners fear bill could be used to seize, destroy weapons

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


By Joel Miller
© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com


A bill working its way through Congress has firearms owners worried about a covert gun grab in the making.

Section 1062 of the Department of Defense Authorization Bill, S. 1438, gives authority to the secretary of defense to "ensure demilitarization of significant military equipment formerly owned by the Department of Defense."

"Demilitarization" refers to the process of rendering equipment inoperable, such as dismantling or removing the firing mechanism of a particular weapon.

"Basically what they want to do is remove any sort of weapons systems in [surplus] planes and tanks," explained a Senate Armed Services Committee staffer, who asked to go unnamed. "They don't want to destroy collectors' things."

But, according to the National Rifle Association, the scope of the bill "would include all firearms (such as the venerable M1, M1 Carbine, and Model 1911, as well as all Civilian Marksmanship Program rifles, even 'sporterized' surplus bolt-action Springfields!), firearm barrels, ammunition, and gun powder."

U.S. veterans are especially upset that they may be forced to surrender weapons they purchased after returning home from abroad, according to Mike Hammond of Gun Owners of America – weapons like those they used while serving the interests of the United States.

Because of the uproar of gun owners, "That particular section has gotten a lot of attention," said the Armed Services staffer, who added that the government "would repossess only things that had been improperly demilitarized."

According to the bill, it is illegal for anyone to possess weaponry that has not been "demilitarized in accordance with standards prescribed by the Secretary of Defense" or without the purpose of "demilitarizing the equipment pursuant to a Federal Government contract" or is not "specifically authorized by law or regulation to possess the military equipment."

The bill requires the secretary of defense to notify the attorney general of any "potential violation" of the law. The AG will then have the authority to require the owner to demilitarize the equipment, have it demilitarized or hand it over for demilitarization by the federal government. If the owner refuses, the AG can get court permission to seize the equipment for demilitarization.

Because the secretary of defense sets the demilitarization standards, "The specific problem is that it allows the secretary to require – when in his sole discretion it is necessary – that firearms be returned for demilitarization," said Mike Hammond of Gun Owners of America.

"Countless Americans own items that could be subject to Sec. 1062. It is likely millions of law-abiding Americans would be affected, and could unknowingly become criminals overnight without having done anything or having ever been informed," said the NRA.

Senate Armed Services does not see the same threat in the bill that the NRA or GOA do.

"I think it's highly unlikely that we're going to hunt down every single gun ever sold to a collector or a hunter," said the staffer. "It's more really the bigger things than the guns."

Gun owners concede that the immediate purpose of the legislation may be to deal with large-scale weaponry but warn of the latitude the bill gives future administrations.

"We don't think that George W. Bush is going to use that statute to seize U.S. surplus firearms," said Hammond. "But a future administration could. That's the concern."

Another concern for Hammond is the Fifth Amendment, which requires "just compensation" for seized property. According to the bill, however, if the government cannot afford to return demilitarized equipment, it can "compensate the holder merely the price he paid for it 50 years ago," Hammond said.

There is no provision in the bill for current market value, only reimbursement for the "cost incurred … to acquire the equipment."

If the firearm was purchased 50 years ago, as in Hammond's example, the amount could be much less than the weapon is worth today, and, by Hammond's way of thinking, paying someone a price 50 years out of touch with current market value hardly equals "just compensation."

"We think it's probably unconstitutional," he said. "But then we think a lot of what Congress passes is unconstitutional."

The bill is currently in the House waiting to be taken up for vote.

 WTF!!  Why are the Republicans bending us over on this one???

Are the Blue U.N. helmets next??

So any point in contacting the Seante Armed Services Comittee members???

If it's passed the Senate is this a moot point?

Just call/write the House Armed Services Committee & hope for the best in conference???

Does this mean ALL of your 30 round USGI mags need to be "demilitarized" as well?  Or are they just talking about weapons?  

M.

Here is what I snail-mailed (he doesn't have e-mail) my congressman. He is pro-gun and very conservative. I really expect him to support us in this.


It has come to my attention that the Senate recently passed S.1438, the Annual Defense Appropriation Bill. Soon, then, the House of Representative  will vote on a similar bill.

However, I find Section 1062 of the Senate version most disturbing. This section calls for the Department of Defense to recall and demilitarize “significant military equipment” that was once owned by the D.O.D.

This seems like a very broad definition to a problem that I am convinced does not exist.

The term “Significant Military Equipment” sounds as it could include ANYTHING one could want it to. What come to mind is old World War ll aircraft currently owned by many collectors and museums. Also, old vehicles that are collected and restored by reenactors. Would the old military trucks use by so many rural fire departments also need to be surrendered. You know as well as I now our local departments rely on  such sturdy old vehicles as these.

This term would also include firearms that were used to defend this nation in time of peace and through the war torn years. These firearms are sought by collectors and in many cases by competitors.

This section is about taking legal private property from the hands of American citizens. All because that property was once use in defense of this great country. The D.O.D. already demilitarizes the equipment it surpluses, recalling equipment already owned does not accomplish anything more.

I urge you to do all you can to defeat any attempt to add this provision to the House version of the appropriations bill.

Thank you for your time.

I tried to cover more than just gun control (it helps out cause to point out the other items to be demiled) and still keep it short.

Quoted: So any point in contacting the Seante Armed Services Comittee members??? If it's passed the Senate is this a moot point? Just call/write the House Armed Services Committee & hope for the best in conference???

I believe that it is worth contacting your senator even though this bill has already passed the Senate.  Softening the resolve of the Senate might help when this bill is hashed out in the conference committee.

357mag

Well, I found those stamps and sent a letter out to 15 Reps. and Senators today.
How bout you???    [:\]

Because of the Anthrax scare they are no longer receiving snail mail. I sent faxes and emails as a backup. It seems everytime I turn around these people are trying to take away my (not to be infringed upon )rights.

I just sent e-mails to my representatives, Diane Finestein and Barbara Boxer. Oh I KNOW they'll see the insanity in this. They LOVE guns.

I need to find another state. Damn, and I just bought a mint 1903 Springfield 1943. Original sling/bayonet, not so much as a scratch in the wood, perfect bore...*sighs*

Sigh.. should I even bother?  Look at the district I'm in.

U.S. Senate:
  District Senior Seat - Senator Joseph Maxwell 'Max' Cleland (Democrat)
  District Junior Seat - Senator Zell Bryan Miller (Democrat)


U.S. House:
  District 4 - Representative Cynthia Ann McKinney (Democrat) (And that bitch that sent the letter to the Saudi prince)


Georgia Senate:
  District 10 - Senator Nadine Thomas (Democrat)


Georgia House of Representatives:
  District 66 - Representative Karla L. Drenner PhD (Democrat)

Do you think a letter from me would help? "My" senators are Ted Kennedy and John Kerry. "My" rep is Barney Frank. Yeah, Right. I think if these geniuses had their way they would disarm US Marshalls on airliners.

Guys, guys, guys... that is one piss poor attitude that you have there. I don't want to sound condescending here, but is this not a hobby that we are engaged in. It is a struggle to assert and preserve our God given rights!
You think I like having "Hilderbeast" and "Chucky Cheese" Schumer as my Senators? Do you think that I am thrilled to call Nita Lowey my Congressional Rep.?
Of course not, but do I still write them, and let them know that they are beholden to the Constitution?
    HELL YES!!!
 Let’s seize the day folks!   The tide has turned, and momentum is on our side for a change.
Bush is President, and The Attorney General and the 5th. Circuit Court of Appeals have spoken loud and clear that the Second Amendment is an INDIVUDAL RIGHT. The SCOTUS has refused to hear cases dealing with a city's right to sue firearm manufactures, in effect upholding a lower federal court
ruling that municipalities have NO legal standing on which to sue.  
Patriotism is at an all time high, scores of first time gun buyers have awakened to realize that they are ultimately responsible for their own safety, and Sara Brady has had to lay off a third of her gun grabbing staff members because of LACK OF FUNDING!!!

     So... Write those letters. Send those faxes. Make those phone calls.  Don't give up, and don't give those who would deny us freedom a single inch or moments rest!!!

 The choice is clear. Sacrifice some time and ink now, or sacrifice blood and tears in the future.    

 

I think that's what I needed to hear.. Mail sent..  

UPDATE...  

Section 1062 of the Senate version of the DOD authorization bill is now being "pre-conferenced" by the House and Senate Chairmen and Ranking Members of the Armed Services Committees: House Chairman Bob Stump, House Ranking Member Ike Skelton, Senate Chairman Carl Levin, and Senate Ranking Member John Warner.
 
 What this essentially means is that two senators and two congressmen will decide within the next three days whether the government will be able to seize your military firearms, magazines, and gear.

Time for the final push folks...   No more time for snail mail on this issue. Faxes and phone calls are our final hope to kill this legislation.

Senator Carl Levin:
Washington Fax # (202) 224-1388
Washington Phone # (202) 224-6221
Lansing Fax # (517) 377-1506
Lansing Phone # (517) 377-1508

Senator John Warner:
Wash. Fax # (202) 224-6295
Wash. Phone # (202) 224-2023
Roanoke Fax # (540) 857-2800
Roanoke Phone # (540) 857-2676

Congressman Bob Stump:
Wash. Fax # (202) 225-6328
Wash. Phone # (202) 225-4576
Phoenix Fax # (602) 271-0611
Phoenix Phone # (602) 379-6923

Congressman Ike Skelton:
Wash. Phone # (202) 225-2876
Jefferson City Phone # (573) 635-3499
 E-mail: [email protected]

                           

Writing to congressmen and Senators is a real new thing for me. I'm still pretty young and I never took this stuff real seriously before. I saw an email address for Ike skelton below. This is the first time I've ever done this and I was trying not to sound like an ass. Here's my email to Ike.

"Good day sir. I'd like to take this opportunity to voice my sincerest opposition to section 1062 of the Senate version of the DOD authorization bill. I'm sure your full aware of what this bill would mean, but I'd like you to hear me out anyway. Should this pass in to law, section 1062 would be a detrimental blow against the freedoms that America prides itself on and to be frank it would be ludicrous to historic proportions. Not since prohibition laws has such an inane infringement upon civil rights even been considered.
The people of this nation have paid to supply the military with equipment from can openers to footwear and then opted to pay for it yet again from a surplus store. If this passes into law, we will be asked yet again to pay from our own hard earned wages to destroy the property which we have payed for not once, but twice. Destroying the property which we as Americans legally own and have payed for with the sweat of our brows is unconstitutional to its very roots. This is clearly against the interests of all red blooded Americans. I ask you sir to represent the interests of the American people and help put this bill down. Thank you for your time. I hope my words have demonstrated not just my disapproval of this bill, but the disaproval of hard working, thinking Americans everywhere."
-------------------------------------------------
How'd I do?

hatebreed, sounds good, but don't forget those faxes!
 
Welcome to the fight, my friend.  
 

Reposting a URL from before to make sure everyone sees it.  www.vote-smart.org

Latest from GOA website...

Senator Carl Levin (D-MI) has tried to hoodwink conservative Senators into supporting his anti-gun legislation. Senator Levin, who is the chairman of the Armed Services Committee, wants to allow the government to confiscate privately owned, military-style firearms. (Note: The bill does allow for private owners to be compensated, but for many gun owners, a meager stipend -- perhaps no more than the cost they paid 50 years ago -- will in no way recompense them for the personal, historic or antique value that their firearms possess.)

Gun Owners of America has been working in the districts of many Congressmen to get this anti-gun language deleted from S. 1438. Because gun owners like you have raised a fuss about this provision, Levin has been forced to offer compromise language. But make no mistake, this compromise will still let the government confiscate privately owned firearms!

Sen. Levin has inserted some "exceptions" into his language in order to assuage conservatives and make them think that private gun owners will be protected. But the exceptions are VERY limited and will not cover all the different ways that individuals have acquired surplus firearms and militaria.

Give them an inch...

Called in. Here's my results so far...

Called Ike Skelton's office. Gave 'em all my reasons. Person was kind, but them asked what state I was from, meaning since I'm not from Skeltons state, my call really didn't matter. Told them I don't have representation on the SAFC.

Called Bob Stumps office. Gave my reasons. person was polite. She expalined Stumpy was working to get it stricken from teh bill. I thanked her for the Congressmans service under difficult circumstances.

Called Levins office( I had a bad feeling about this one going in) Girl sounded as if she was having a bad day - kinda snotty. Put me on hold FOUR times. Gave my reasons. She SWEARS that there is language in the bill stating items of historical and cultural significance would NOT be demilled. I told her other armed services comittee members were saying differently. Was she lying??? Hmmmm. She suggested I go to thomas.loc.gov to see the language.


Sen. Warners office - thank you for calling. Click. Hard to say what the reception was.

Oh well - I spoke my piece.


How do Liberals and leftists who "despise the military" get into these positions????

Grrrrrrr.

I'll keep yas posted.

Get to work. CAll NOW!!!!!!!!!!

Text of my letter:

To the Honorable [name]
Senate Armed Services Committee
228 Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510

Dear Senator [name]:

I am writing to you with regard to your service on the Senate Armed Services Committee. Specifically I wish to address Section 1062 of the Senate version of the DOD authorization bill.

I am writing to request that the “demilitarization” portion of the bill be stricken from the bill. There are numerous reasons for this.

The vague and open-ended language of the bill would allow a future administration that is unfriendly to the Second Amendment to mandate that all former military equipment be confiscated from their lawful owners and destroyed. This is unacceptable for numerous reasons.

The bill indicates that the government would need only pay scrap value for these items, many of which have a fair market value in the hundreds and thousands of dollars. The personal injury to me alone  would be in the thousands of dollars. Specifically, I make reference to the M1 rifle, the Springfield 1903, the M1 Carbine. These firearms primary value is in their value to collectors. In addition, this would affect countless other items in millions of  personal, private collections. In a culture where we CLAIM to value freedom, and the rights of the citizenry, this is an abomination.  While these items were initially manufactured by private industry under government contract, citizens have paid a fair price to acquire them. They should not be mandated by government to surrender them at ANY price, much less at scrap value.

Secondly, these items represent, for countless hundreds of thousands of families, the personal sacrifice their fathers, and sons, and brothers, and sisters and wives and mothers made in places like the beaches of Normandy, the Pacific islands and the Black Forest of Germany.  I implore you to NOT do them this disservice.

Lastly, this provision is in DIRECT contravention to the interpretation of the Second Amendment which our Founding Fathers have provided us, and Attorney General Ashcroft has so eloquently reiterated recently. Section 1062 is NOTHING more than an “end around” the Second Amendment. It cannot be corrected, it cannot be re-written. It MUST be stricken from the bill. While I understand that Senator Levin is trying to hide the invasive nature of the language of the bill, please do not take the chance that this provision of the bill could later be used to devastate freedom. Strike it NOW.

I thank you for your time in considering this matter, and request your help in proactively addressing this travesty-in-the-making.

Sincerely,

Great Letter garandman!

I hope you don't mind us plagiarizing(sic?)
it a little??

Great letter Garandman!!

Quoted: Great Letter garandman! I hope you don't mind us plagiarizing(sic?) it a little??

Please DO!!!!!

We need to fight this one with EVERYTHING we got.

I sent a letter telling my senator how disappointed I was for his support with S. 1439, especially S. 1062.  He responded back to me by email...suprises never cease.  Anyway, he wrote to me about how he is for Second Amendment rights but what he supported doesn't back this.  

He listed out all of the things he supported going back to 1999 but never addressed S.1439.  It was as if he didn't hear me or this was just a form email.  Weird stuff.  

Any movement on this in conference committee??

Quoted: I sent a letter telling my senator how disappointed I was for his support with S. 1439, especially S. 1062.  He responded back to me by email...suprises never cease.  Anyway, he wrote to me about how he is for Second Amendment rights but what he supported doesn't back this.   He listed out all of the things he supported going back to 1999 but never addressed S.1439.  It was as if he didn't hear me or this was just a form email.  Weird stuff.

I have had the same from mine mmmm HELLO

So have we been sold out on this one yet?????

The last post on this thread is now over 2 weeks old — Anyone know the current status of this bill?

Also, a GOA or NRA link would be helpful — Neither web site seems to mention this bill by name (unless it's buried in some other article!)

go here

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=72984

I can't believe that this has not made national news!!!! I was just breezing through when I saw this.  I am shocked!
[:0]

NO UPDATE ON THIS YET??????????

Quoted: NO UPDATE ON THIS YET??????????

Really! This thing was supposed to have been voted on two weeks ago, what the Hell happened?

Don't make me put on my tin foil hat...

And im back!
Doubt if anyone remembers me.

I have been following this issue also.

Lately, I have been unable to get any new updates.  Not at NRA site either.

according to several unconfirmed but reliable sources withing the military vehicle and warbird community.....



SECTION 1062 IS DEAD!!!!!

Great news folks! This not just an Internet rumor, it is true!

I just got off the phone with Congressman Bob Stump's office, and they have confirmed that section 1062 has been stricken in committee.

Thanks and credit are deserved by all who wrote, called, and faxed their opinions concerning this matter, and we can collectively exhale... FOR NOW.

Rest assured however, that this same demil provision will rear its ugly head in the future.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

    Dec. 12 Neal Knox Update -- Sec. 1062 of the Defense
Authorization bill, the provision allowing any "significant
military weapon" -- including all guns ever owned by the U.S.
Government -- to be recalled or ordered destroyed, has been
completely removed by House-Senate Conference Negotiators.

    Yesterday, the chairman of the House Armed Service Committee,
Bob Stump (R-Ariz.), called to say he "had fixed that."  I had told
my wife that he would be calling, and the two items to ask him
about if he called while I was out.  Not until nearly midnight did
I learn that Bob had gotten it taken it out completely.  That's what
I'd asked him to do nearly two months ago because Sec. 1062 was so
bad it was unfixable.

    Most of the 51 members of the conference didn't see the bill,
negotiated by only the chairman and ranking member of each house
committee, until late yesterday.  They are expected to finish up any
wrangling this week and vote early next week.  The contentious
issue is a round of base closings, which has caused the long delay.

    Some of the near-hysterical hype that's been on the internet
said the bill required destruction of former government arms,
vehicles and planes.  But it would have allowed a future
administration to do it -- I can't imagine this one issuing such an
order.

      Now we've got to find out where within the Defense Department
this scheme came from, for the second year in a row, and see to it that
he or she is dismissed or transferred to Lower Soblovia.

This isn't the first time this type of bill was penned by Michigans Great Carl "LEFTY" Levin.
( hey carl, [-!-!-])
Since he has tried this in the past, I am sure he will try it again in the future.
The easy answer, VOTE HIM OUT OF OFFICE!
The tough part, get a grazillion Detroit auto workers to vote contrary to their Union.

Lance, in Mi.