If this isn't the right forum to post this please let me know!
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Looking for some SMEs in Warsaw Pact rifles to give me a couple pointers

Found a Romanian 7.62x54R PSL in my local gun shop; she's going for $1,000. I've wanted an SVD ever since I got my Mosin and multiple cans worth of surp ammo in high school.

Although I'd prefer a Russian rifle, from what I've heard the Romanians did a good job copying them. Are the Russian rifles worth the extra price, or is this PSL a steal?

What are some things to look for in used SVD clones to be sure they are in good shape? In addition, are there any ranges of serial numbers to stay away from?

Below I have linked photos I took of the left and right sides of the receiver, which I believe contain the serial number along with other product data (and I've also written out text for convenience) :

Left Side


F-6502-80 RO
PSL-540
Cal. 7.62x54mm

Right Side


MADE BY CM ROMARM SA/CUGIR
IN ROMANIA
IMPORTED CAI GEORGIA VT.

Thank you guys for any advice you can offer!

A PSL is not a Clone of a SVD.

The PSL and the Dragunov SVD are two totally and completely different guns. The only thing common is the ammo they fire.

http://www.dragunov.net/psl_tiger.html

A quick look around the net tells me the $1000 price tag seems to be average PSL price at the moment.

Also I see vendors/sellers listing the PSL as a PSL/ SVD sniper rifle at a very high price. This is bullshit but it seems to be fairly common sales tactic.

The PSLs get a bad rap, they're good rifles if you know what they are. They're not perfect, they're not precision rifles, they have their quirks, they can be crude. They are, however, capable shooters that do a lot better than most give them credit for. Their bigger limiting factor is poor ammo, poor ammo selection, and sometimes shoddy workmanship based on whoever put it together (though this varies, and is hardly unique to the PSL relative to other combloc weapons). I've had a few when they were cheap, and wish I'd held on to one.

As to price, used to be they were about 600 bucks with mags and scope. They've climbed up steadily the last few years, and now that 600 setup would go for about 1300+ bucks. What mags, pouches, and optic are in this? If it has most/all of that, it's a solid deal by a few hundred bucks. If not, and it's just the rifle, it's about what they go for give or take and if I were in the market for one I'd likely try to haggle a bit and close it as they're getting rare and the price is only going up unfortunately.

Understand that while it looks like a Dragunov, it's a completely different rifle on the inside. Dragunovs are much more collectible, and that's where most of the price difference comes from. Some will tell you they're that much better than the PSL, and while the general quality difference between Russian Drags/Chinese NDMs and PSLs are significant, it's nowhere near the price discrepancy. If you want a badass rifle that looks cool and performs well (for what it is), get a PSL. If you have to have the real deal/best (again, for what it is), or are getting a collectors piece, get the Drag or NDM.

I bought one new back when they were being offered for $700 (w scope, sling, magazines, and cleaning kit).  

It wasn't terribly accurate.  Mine was certainly less accurate than the avaerage economy bolt rifle found on the shelf at Walmart.  

I wanted a DMR style rifle.  I felt that mine wasn't that accurate, so I sold it.  

Additionally the optic wasn't as clear as a modern $200 huntingnscope.

Oh yea, mine functioned flawlessly.
It was also fun/cheap to shoot.  

It was a fun range toy, but it was not something that gave me an advantage over a good cheap bolt gun w a decent optic.

Just my two cents.

From what I recall I believe the ones that were made in Romania were generally considered better than the ones put together in the U.S. Your mileage may vary though as it's always a crap shoot with regards to Romanian quality. If you buy it and don't like it you should be able to get your money back out of it.

Edit to add: As mentioned it's not an SVD or even part of the Dragunov family of weapons. That doesn't make it worse, just realize you're not getting that SVD that you always wanted.

I sold my PSL after shooting it. It looked cool...that's about it. I read about ammo sensitivity; ie, topcover denting with certain ammo...stretching of the receiver and egging of rivet holes...

These issues, however, were because it was NOT a factory Cugir. It was a US build.

There NEEDS to be a US built SVD clone. I heard rumors about a CNC guy who does boutique receivers, possibly looking at an SVD project, but it never materialized.

PSLs are big AKs. They're fun, but with cheap surplus ammo mostly dried up the allure is not as strong as it once was.

This is my experience as well, no matter how many different magazines or ammo types I tried I could not get it to run for more than a few rounds without a malfunction. The gun looked cool as hell though. Mine was a factory rifle.

Thank you everyone for their advice; I've read all the posts so far. I also have been doing research online, and $1,000 seems to be market price.

I didn't know that the PSL was so much different from the SVD. I'll look into that some more.

$1,000 is pretty much my entire discretionary spending for one month right now, so I would not want to take a chance on it. One day I will be able to afford to spend $1,000 and be able to afford sitting on it if I decide to sell it.

Instead I'll put some of that money into my Mosin to bring it up to hunting quality.

I wouldnt touch the Mosin,if you want a budget hunting gun just go buy a cheap bolt action like a Ruger American and put a Nikon scope on it. If you modify your Mosin it loses a lot of value so keep that in mind.

this guy is right.  Mosins are a pain to mount optics on a the value will tank.  A RAR or similiar will be much easier to mount optics on more caliber choices etc 

If you get it, try to find some of the Polish light ball ammo. Most of the other surplus ammo is pretty hot and will beat up the top cover and eventually the rear trunnion.
I worked at TGI for quite some and we imported 1000's of the demilled kits. Some we built back into full rifles on NoDak Spud receivers. We did import some Cugir factory guns also.

We had tens of thousands of mags for the guns also. And POSP scopes for them.

Academy Stores has Mossberg rifle (30.06, .270, .243 or .308) with 3x9 scope on sale for $299...

I paid less than that for my Tigr about 10 years ago

Just to add my own experience with my CUGIR built PSL has been pretty good and it kind of satisfies that SVD itch. I worked for a large shop when they first came through and got mine with scope and three mags for Under $500.

The rifle does have a tendency to string shots as it heats up , but nothing severe. Is it a precision rifle , nope and don't expect it to be unless you try and handload for it. I have tried a number of types of ammo that I have in my stash and believe it or not the crappy QC Albanian gives me the best results.

Hungarian - Ok
Cheq - Not as good as I expected
Polish - OK
Chinese - meh
Albanian - pretty good

Overall it is a fun gun and with the amount of 54r I have on hand , it's not really an issue.

Several comments on the PSL:

1.  The best time to buy a PSL was when they were flooding into the US.  I paid $400 for a Romanian PSL mine with the standard LPS 4x6° TIP2 scope, which is a copy of the Soviet PSO-1.  This particular scope used tritium to illuminate the reticle and the reality is that these scoops are old enough that you won't get any noticeable glow from the tritium, given the 12 year half life of the tritium source.  

I replaced the scope with a surplus PSOP 8x42, which uses a battery to illuminate the reticle, and  it was a much nicer scope overall.  I paid $180 for it and original PSOP 8x42s are selling for around $600 now.

I also bought a pouch with 4 magazines and a cleaning kit in it for $100.  These now sell for upwards of $275. A single spare magazine will cost you $50 at today's prices, up from about $20 when the PSLs were still coming in.

2. The PSL is actually based on the RPK receiver and as such is a scaled up AK.   It doesn't share the same design as the SVD, they just happen to look a lot alike as they were both designed for similar roles, suing similar approaches and a Warsaw pact rail for the scope.

3. The SVD was not a sniper weapon in the sense that the US has designed sniper weapons. It is more accurate to describe it as a designated marksman rifle, which is how the Soviets employed the SVD.  It just seems to have a more mythical status in the west than it ever deserved.    Once you eliminate that little mis understanding, the PSL compares pretty well to the SVD.

4. The PSL is also a capable DMR.  With good quality ammo, like Soviet 7N1 and 7N14 a good PSL is capable of 1 MOA accuracy and on average they'll still achieve 2 MOA accuracy.   That compares 1.0 - 1.5 MOA for the average SVD, with the exceptional examples dipping into the just sub MOA range.  2 MOA is still easily minute of man at 500-600 meter, and deadly at the typical 400 meter engagement ranges they were designed for.

5.  The PSL was designed for use with 150-152 gr "light ball" ammo - specifically the 7N1 and later 7N14 com block sniper rounds.  You should not use the yellow tipped 182 gr "heavy ball" ammo in a PSL - save that for your Mosin.  

6. If you want maximum accuracy, you're going to have to hand load for it, given that 7N1 and 7N14 ammo is n ow pretty rarely encountered.   Some PSLs will shoot .308 bullets well, others will need .311 bullets.  Again, stay with lighter bullets and watch the loads and gas port pressures to keep from beating up the rifle.

7. Price wise a $1000 is a good price now for a PSL in excellent condition, since they are not being imported anymore.  I've seen a couple at gun shows for $1,200-1,300, and they have disappeared so they seem to be selling for that, or something close to it.  They'll continue to go up on value and in a few years $1300 won't be a bad price either.  If you want one, get one now as they won't get any cheaper if you wait

Trust me, I have NO intention to irreversibly alter the Mosin! I simply planned to either purchase a polymer stock with a picatinny rail to swap out with for hunting season, or install a rear sight replacement with a rail. Both options I've heard are easily reversible, and if at any point it think I will damage the original rifle, I will stop immediately.

Thank you very much for that detailed reply. Right now I'm having to make a serious decision between buying this PSL or purchasing an Upper for a Mk12 Mod1 build. Both are increasing in price, and both are becoming harder to find.

I'm very happy with my VEPR 20" and it's higher quality than any PSL I've seen.  I put a Burris tac 30 1-4x24 on it with a MI mount and it's not uncomfortably high like most combloc mounts. $1100 and the downside is expensive/non-existent mags. Someone is supposed to be working on good steel 10 rounders though.

I am thinking the same thing. The PSL is a gamble, I won't know its quality until after I buy it. A VEPR is a proven rifle, and if I buy a bad one, I  can get my money back.

I really liked that Yugo M76 that was in the shop, but wasn't a fan of the price tag at the time.

Instead of mounting a scope on a Mosin, I'd recommend the TC Compass for a being an inexpensive but accurate shooter.

I've been told by a decent source that all those Cugir imports were all factory defect guns. That CAI went over there, asked to buy AK's. They said they didn't have any. Well they asked about piles of AK's they'd seen, and were told those were the ones that didn't meet the cut, for various reasons. They said they didn't care, and wanted AK's, so they got them.

My old PSL... it shot fine, accurate enough, and the factory scope was zeroed.... but the receiver was twisted/warped and the barrel possibly bent. You can't even guess if things are canted with problems like that.

So it was good on its own, but found all this out when I tried mounting a different optic.

Very common issues with the PSLs because of how weak the receiver is I guess, and how thin and weak the barrel is. So pressing the barrel in is when it happened I would guess, and was told was common.

So look for that I guess. If things look weird looking down the rifle and you can't figure out what is or isn't bent, it's probably twisted and also maybe bent.

I bought a SFWA fixed 6x scope and a MI SVD mount for upgrading the PSL, since its optic is more like a glorified etched reflex sight with a skinny tube.

After upgrading the optic failed horribly... I sold it, as still a good rifle with the factory scope.

The plan was to mount that stuff on a Vepr in 54R. Much much better option for the upgrade.

But decided AK's were garbage overall, since it was like the 100th AK failing I've gone through, and had a couple since.

Would rather get a S&W M&P10 all day long, as a backup to my MWS. Haven't done it though.

I almost traded for one a few months back, but this simple fact was what kept me from committing.  Plus, I didn't see the point.  Mags aren't exactly cheap,  7.62x54 ammo is getting more expensive, and you end up with a rifle that *might* shoot better than 2-2.5 MOA.  Don't get me wrong, I think they are interesting rifles, but to me its a lot like the SKS/AR argument.  

It would be one thing if they were $450 and "match" x54 ammo was $180/k, but that's just not the case.

I have a PSL(FPK Dragunov) made by TN Gun, Knox, TN. I bought mine 12 years ago then you could buy a spam can of 7.62x54R surplus can of ammo for $40. Shipped. It is a designed as a Designated Marksman Rifle, it is a Long stroke piston driven gun like a AK, but is is built on a RPK receiver. It is a 1 to 2 MOA battle rifle, it is not a sniper rifle, it was not designed to be one. it string when it get hot 5-10 rounds. But it is predictable. It was designed to kill the enemy soldiers from a 200 -500 meter distance, using a 4 power scope, or keep the enemy soldier heads down while his team moves to a position to kill the bad guys.
It is a blast to shoot. It does not recoil like a .308 class rifle would. It get a lot of attention when it is taken out of the sniper drag bag. It can be finicky about certain ammo, but I have never had a malfunction with mine. It is not importable any more, and parts are not either. So what is in the country now is all there will be for the foreseeable future. If you want a SVD you need some serious $$$, the last time I looked they were going for over 4K for a Chinese made SVD (NKM86 I think), a Russian SVD will be over $7k. And magazines and parts are very pricey and harder to find.
I have mine all tricked out the with black furniture, 2 stage trigger, Texas Weapon Systems rail, and 9 extra magazines, four magazine carry pouches, cleaning kit and accessories.
It is a really a fun gun to have and shoot if you are into that kind of thing.
If you are into Warsaw Pact weapons, or different weapons from everybody else has then it could fit the bill.
The prices are just going to go up for now on, so you have to figure out what you want to do. SVD's are very pricey, but a PSL, (FPK) are a cheaper, but a different kind of rifle.