The state of Pennsylvania may be on the verge of allowing semiautomatic firearms for deer hunting but in typically bone headed political fashion may require a 24 or larger caliber restriction.

It's been a long time since they allowed .22 caliber center fire calibers and nobody ever had an issue but it seems since the country's favorite 22 center fire is the AR-15 they want to change the rules, again.

There is no other reason than political. The neighboring state of WV, from which I currently reside has no such restriction and the .223 in the AR-15 as well as all other types take whitetail deer very effectively.

Ok: Sorry for rant now for the question.

One option, if needed, I was considering was to buy a Remington 30 AR upper.

I'm a reloader and the ballistics look good but is there more to it than simply putting the 30 AR upper on my lower and that's all ?

What about magazines? What about the buffer and all that other stuff ?

Thanks,  Motor

You can't get ammo, or brass.  It is a great round that Remmy totally screwed the pooch on.

Why 30AR? Why not 300blk, 6.8, or 6.5Grendel? Those are all readily available.

As I said I'm a reloader and like the performance level of the 30AR. I do load 300 BO and honestly think if you are not using it to shoot 200+ grain bullets sub-sonic it's kind of a joke.

That being said though I may end up seeing what I can get out of the 300 BO with 125gr bullets. I tried the Sierra 125gr Flat nose HP in a dummy round and it didn't want to feed. Others have said that it feeds just fine in there ARs though so maybe I will re-visit that.

I have an excellent shooting super sonic 150gr load but it's barely 1900 f/s. I have also found that I need a bullet that has a crimp groove. The BO has such a short neck that if not crimped the bullet walks forward when the bolt slams home.

I know the 6.'s are good rounds too. I'm just not into the 25 or 27 calibers.

Motor

Doesn't matter if you reload if you can't get brass.

This.

Have you tried the 125gr. Hornady SST's?  I've killed dozens of whitetail with this round out of several 300blk's?  No joke!

I understand. I was just answering the man's question.

It's real funny though how quickly a market for something can change things. PA fields over 800,000 hunters on opening day (used to be over a million). Very soon there could be a huge demand for something like the Rem. 30AR. But I'm hoping they will still allow the .223 but .............

Motor

Hey thanks. The 125gr SST does have a canalure but while looking I also noticed a 135gr FTX !!!! It has a canalure too but the BO can be very OAL specific.

Are you able to line up the canalure of the 125gr SST with the case mouth when you seat them?

Yes. Zero issues with this round. Several DRT's to. I use lil gun. I've tried just about every lightweight round for the 300blk and actually shit deer with each. My second choice would be Misled 125 gr. ballistic tips. The Hornady's are cheaper and I have yet to have a deer run more than 40yds as long as I do my part.

I think it was a great idea, but per the usual, they dropped the ball with it.

That's awesome. Thanks. I will definitely pick up a box of them if I can't go with the .223

I guess Hornady's description of the 125 SST is a little misleading. They imply it works better at higher velocity but I'll take your word for it.

Motor

I have been told by several park rangers(not in game commission but they talk to them frequently) that the general consensus is that you won't be able to use semi autos for big game, at least not anytime soon.  they said they will add them for small game and varmits/predator's first then maybe 5 years in they will consider adding them for big game but don't hold your breath.

It will get the job done. Pre suppressor days.

I figured it was too good to be true. 5 years will turn into 15 or never. It took them 10 years to change the antler restrictions when after the first 2 years everyone including the game biologists who told them a buck with 3 points on the main beam will over 90% of the time have brow tines and the ones that don't probably never will. I know many will read this and not understand because they never had to try to put brow tines on a moving deer to make it legal to shoot. It's not easy. I've had to pass on archery shots because I couldn't see the brow tines in time.

The law was minimum 4 points on one side. Now it's 3 points on one main beam not counting brow tines. This is not state wide there are different regs for different areas.

Motor

This


Hmm, I think you may just be trying to convince yourself on this. I'm sure it's a great round but 300blk, 6.8spc, 6.5g, etc have a strong foothold in the market. That's totally ignoring large frame ARs. Hey, I'm a big fan of .277 wolverine but I know it's unlikely to catch on big time.


Was that also iPhone2 days?

It was so 4 years ago and old Droid.

Ammo, lots of it.

Being's you're a handloader you might consider a 6x45.... just your 223/5.56x45 necked up to 6mm.  Very easy...one pass over the 6mm expander ball and you're done.  Plenty of choices for bullets, abundant brass, same mags.  What's not to like?

Can't use heavy bullets and most of the bullets that will work well in the case are varmit bullets.  If your going to go with a alternate caliber you need a bigger case to make it worth while.  that means something off the 6.5 grendel or 6.8 spc or one of the big bore's.  Actually something like the 450 bushmaster would work great in PA where shots are almost always within 200 yards, with most being in the 50 to 75 range.

This, In general I think the 6.5 Grendel is a much better round, but for hunting back east where shots are usually under 200 yards the 6.8 SPC is the way to go.

It's been a long time since they allowed .22 caliber center fire calibers and nobody ever had an issue but it seems since the country's favorite 22 center fire is the AR-15 they want to change the rules, again.


This is not true in Pennsylvania. The law states only a centerfire firing an expanding or all lead bullet. No minimum caliber for deer or bear. For elk there is a 270 caliber with a 130 gr bullet minimum. I've shot a lot of deer in Pa with a .223.

The long for weight Barnes 62 and 70 grain TSX and TTSX .224" bullets work very well in .223/5.56 for whitetail deer.  They are solid copper, expand rapidly, but retain virtually all their weight.  Break bone when encountering it, and still leave an exit wound.  With proper shot placement it is usually dead right there. If they do run, it won't be far and the exit wound leaves a blood trail.

You need a 1:8 twist barrel to shoot the 70 grain, but can shoot the 62 from 1:9. As with any small case capacity hunting round, keep use to 150 yards, max, as retained energy drops fast after that.

So sad about Remington bailing on the very promising 30 AR.   I have 6mm Rem. and .280 Rem rifles in my collection.  I still hunt with them.  The 6mm is superior to .243 Win, and the .280 is superior to .270 Win or 7mm-'08, but Remington screwed up the marketing on those too.  Each has lingered but are virtually unknown for new rifles, now. Fortunately, for us handloaders, cases are available, bullet options plentiful, and we can take advantage of their better performance.

Try those Barnes bullets in your .223/5.56.  Barnes even has "hot" 5.56 pressure load data for them.  H-4895 works well with either and accuracy is superb, approaching match grade from a good barrel with appropriate twist.

Looks like I was wrong.  The PGC committee recommended that semi auto's be made legal for hunting big game in pa!  5 round clips for big game and unlimited for small game/predator hunting.

The tide is turning.

Have you also considered the 7.62x39?  I'm going to a 6.8 SPC II when I can.


CD

After I read my post had a feeling that someone could misunderstand it. My fault. It was written poorly.

What I meant to say was: It's been a long time since they dropped the 24 caliber rule and allowed center fire 22's. I know it has because I remember hunting with my niece in the early 1990s and she used a 22-250.

Sorry for the confusion.

Motor

Wow !! I'm surprised. My boy isn't going to be too happy though. Now he's going to have to find a 5 round clip for his Garand.

Thanks again for all the great replies. If they do allow the .223 I'm very happy with the results I've had with the Sierra 65gr Game Kings.

I have a back up plan but was hoping to stay on the compact side.

My back up is a M1A with optics. Already have a 5 round magazine too.

Motor