Which is more productive in improving skill and keeping up with fundamentals/muscle memory?

Going to the range twice a week for 45-60 minutes(maybe 100 rds) or going twice a month for 3-4 hours(400rds)?

Less time more times, or more time less times


I tend to go more times for short periods because I have trouble setting aside a half day for a range trip. I usually only take 1 or 2 firearms to focus on at a time.

What are your thoughts and experience?

How the hell do you make 100 rounds last an hour?

Count target set up and cold range?



 

dry firing between range sessions

1) Sign in
2) Open gate and drive through
3) Close gate and usually find an empty bay
4) Set up targets
5) Shoot and check targets depending on what I'm doing
6) Pick up brass and targets
7) Unlock gate and drive through
8) Close gate and sign out

45min to an hour can go pretty quick and I don't shoot mag dumps the whole time.

Most definitely this.

For pistol, I like to stack some coins on the slide and practice dry firing without disturbing the pile. Plus if it's a striker-fired gun you need a few thousand clicks to really break in the trigger anyway.

For rifle, I like to focus on as distant a target as I can indoors (e.g. the center screw of an outlet, corner of a picture frame, etc) and practice dry firing at that. Especially useful for prone as you can see just how much your sights move as you breathe.

I have unlimited range time at my club, and I spend more time dry firing than shooting.

You can accomplish quite a bit doing dry-fire draws with snap caps (not really needed) and mag changes w/o firing a shot. 100 rounds, when mixed in with other tasks, will easily last an hour.

Forget TIME... focus on YOUR PERFORMANCE STANDARD and then work to improve your standard... much of this can be done w/o ammo or very little of it.

I shoot at least once a week, usually twice.
For me it's all about the quality of my time/practice and not the quantity.  Whether I'm there for 1 hour or 4, I try to make every minute and every round count.  Otherwise, you're just wasting ammo and making noise.



In the evening, after a shoot, I will think back over my performance that day and what I need to improve on (this part usually involves beer to help the thought process).  Those conclusions are emphasized/worked on the next time I shoot.  I constantly repeat this process every time I shoot.

I helped my ability with rifles, especially AR-15's by shooting a lot with a 22 LR conversion.  I was shooting so much 22 LR I eventually went to dedicated 22 LR upper and lower setup like my duty rifle.  This was primarily for CQB off hand shooting but I also found I could help my technique bench shooting with a scope using scoped 22 LR AR-15's.   I was shooting at least once a week and I was shooting 2 to 4 bricks (500 rounds) of 22 LR ammo per month.  I was shooting about half that amount with an Advantage Arms 22 LR conversion on a Glock frame.

I shot a lot of paper targets to hone my accuracy and a lot of steel targets to improve my speed.  I live in a rural area and could shoot at my house or a Friend's house five miles away.   For me the trigger time made more difference than whether I was shooting centerfire versus rimfire.  The 5.56/223 recoil is so light I greatly benefited by using matching rimfire guns to my duty centerfire guns.  I still frequently shot centerfire but I could never have been able to shoot as much if I had to use centerfire alone.  

I have since slowed down on my training as I have retired and fortunately 22 rimfire ammo was still available for practice up to tbe time I retired.  I'm shooting more 22 rimfire this year as availabilty has improved but since retiring I have more time to reload.  I'm shooting more bench long range rifle now as opposed to CQB.  I can say that shooting is a perishable skill and I have lost my edge in CQB in the last couple years since not practicing as much.

Good input. I have never bought into using .22s as a "trainer".  I see how you can practice some of the fundamentals(trigger control and sight picture) and gain from it, especially rifle. I think a .22 conversion for my Glocks would be almost useless and what you would get from it you could achieve with dry fire.

I completely agree that is it definitely a perishable skill! I have been shooting rifles regularly for maybe 15 years so a rifle always feels pretty natural in my hands. Pistols however have only been a thing for me since 2012(yeah great time to get into pistols right0. I shoot SA/DA pistols very well compared to striker but I prefer striker fired for carry so that's all I have and practice with. I could probably pick up a hammer fired single action I have never shot and shoot a better group than my Glocks.

I go out once a week, sometimes twice if friends want to go out too. With friends, I don't do much except shoot some range toys. By myself, totally different. I have different guns for different CC purposes and do enough to occasionally stay proficient with them. But for my main EDC and house gun, I make it a point to use it every week. I'm finally at a point in my life where everything is in sync from the pistol itself, the right holster, and the right belt. Certain people say grips or comfort, ergonomics or sight angle and triggers do not matter, I have come to believe that they really don't know what they are talking about and hardly shoot at all. Everything matters, and the countless times I have been out with other guns to where I am now with my grail EDC, I am now more than confident with my skills and others have taken notice at how much I have improved upon.

I constantly go out to keep myself from losing this perishable skill in regards to pistols to open yet private off the grid areas where I can do my thing my way. From the clothing sweep and draws from concealment, the grip, the ergonomics, finger placement, sight alignment because of a really good grip angle that is naturally comfortable, trigger pull, and follow through, I am well honed and very confident in my abilities. What has also been a benefit to me is setting up the steel further and further away where it has taught me to focus more on shot placement and it has seriously paid off making 10 yards and closer way too easy to do.

So what I am saying for the thread's purposes that once a week trips firing a hundred give or take a week set's you up for success in the long run between finding what is right for you and taking any enlightenment's that may come as a sign to get where you need to be later if not now.

What is your grail EDC gun GSL?  I feel like I finally have mine.  But with a carbine set up, not so much.  But I swear I can shoot my G26 as good as any pistol I've ever shot.  Well almost.  I think I might have an edge in longer distance with my M9.  I need to test it.   But I'm not even certain about that.

But for my AR's, everything I have ends up being too heavy for me.  I was practicing reloads last week and my right wrist is still sore and kind of wonky from it.  Getting old sucks.  I think I need to invest in a skinny barrel.  Grrrrrrrrr....

The VP9

If your G26 that you seem to interject into every pistol topic is finally your grain gun, rock it and never stop practicing with it. And I agree, test them. You never know until you try and do.

Try a Faxon Gunner 14.5 with a pinned and welded something along with a Midwest Industries M-lok 10.5. Add on a Minimalist milspec from Mission First Tactical, and then hit up V7 Weapon Systems for some titanium and super aluminum parts to cut the weight down even more.



Here's a good site to order from for all or most of all your lightweight needs at Vertex Ops and their shipping is cheap and very fast.

I know, I can't help myself about talking about the stupid thing (G26).  LOL.   I shot 10 rounds at 100 on Monday, just shooting at divets on the berm.  And I am impressed by how close I can get to what I'm aiming at.  Not all the time but for a small gun.....  Anyways...


I like the idea of a 14.5 lw mid.  That's a good option you posted.  But it would probably take more money than I want to spend.  I could sell my AP Pro to fund it, but if I get all LW stuff, I could probably deal with the AP on top.  Even though it's kind of heavy.  Or just do a long rail and stick an iron on it.  My eyes still work well with rifle length sight radius.

So you're all about the VP9.  Interesting.......  RickA loves his too.   And I respect his opinion.  He likes a lot of the same guns I do.  Don't tempt me.  Because as much as I love the G26, I keep thinking I NEED a fuller sized pistol for HD/SHTF, if I'm not going to be toting an AR.  But then again, I really don't think I'd gain much.  I do want to try a 17 or 34 though.  Although I think the 34 is ugly.

Here's an idea, buy a G19 and have it chopped to a G26 length in grip. You may be able to do better.

And LW parts are pricey, do what I did and buy it piece by piece and set the parts aside until it is fo time.

I'll trade you a lightweight 15" MI rail (that long sight radius) and some other lightweight parts and and a pa micro dot wiyh qd 1/3 and possibly some cash for your AP pro.... if you're into that saving some weight and having long sight radius and not spending money. Just saying! You might really find that something like a k2 grip is easier on your wrist for mag changes....



Or a rifle that weighs this much:

And I think going once a week with limited rounds is way more beneficial than once a month with 4x as many rounds.  Not even close.

You're trying to make me jealous right?    How the heck is that so light?   I think it would be perfect if I could get it all set up loaded, with a light, just under 7 lbs.  Maybe 6.5  I don't want it crazy light.  But you have to really try to get it to be that light.  Especially if you're not SBRing.  A loaded mag is 1 lb as it is.  Approx.  I like to use 20's and their right around 11 ounces.   But I have to start getting lighter weight stuff.  The only good light I have is a Surefire Z2 I think it is.  It's an old metal one.  It's like 5 ounces without a mount.  

I need a skinny barrel, a lighter light, and a lighter optic or sights.  For sure.  Problem is I can stand for quite a while with a pistol in a 2 hand hold without too much movement.  But give me a nose heavy carbine and offhand becomes more wobbly than is good for any kind of shooting offhand.   I gotta start working out that left arm and shoulder I think.

ETA: you dont' have a ch in that upper.  So I'm assuming there's no bcg in there either.  What is that a pound?  Probably less.  But still.  That's still freaking light.

Actually a rifle with a really light front end can be less steady and harder to shoot offhand. I could shoot my National Match AR better than by 14.5 with the original KMR and lightweight barrel offhand. The NM with the medium/heavy barrel helped steady the rifle while the KMR 14.5 just kinda floats around.

Shooting with a more aggressive stance the advantage goes to the KMR though because of weight.

Frequent Short sessions with fewer rounds Is by far the better way. You shoot too many rounds and you will get sloppy at the end of sessions and the last thing your mind recalls ( the sloppy shots at the end of a long sessions) will be the first thing it recalls next session. The old saying practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect- in practice effort to break every shot perfectly is the way to go. At some point, your focus will degrade in high round count situations and you will see your accuracy fall off. The key to good practice is to
Stop before the performance falls off.

my background is USPSA pistol, though I do shoot multigun and PCC... when I started in the early 80's Bill Rogers was unveiling his positive mental reward technique for pistol shooting... instant feedback, not just shooting a bunch of shots at a target, and later looking at the target... his suggestion was very helpful for me.. I had a plate of 3/8" steel,  16" w x 24" tall with a 6" x 6" head (basically an IPSC target of the time) welded to the back was a 3 sided piece of box beam around 3" x 4"... three pieces of rebar were bent with a slight dog leg that slipped into the box, when assembled would support the plate with a slight downward slant... the plate was painted with common latex house paint via a trim pad... no more than an 8rd magazine shot on the target between painting, and the large dark hit splashes gave you immediate feedback as to your shot.. after a gallon or so of house paint, you had a pretty good idea

the year I got my Dillon 450 (pre 550) I was casting 200grain "SAECO bullets, sizing lubing and reloading... I kept count by saving the end panel of the 1000 primer boxes... 34,000 rounds that year

Air rifle, yard.

Best answer.

Sounds like Saturday mornings to me...



 

I have no clue who Bill Rogers is but what you said makes absolute sense to me.

I go through a lot of white primer spray paint myself.