Haven't been reading much on handguns for awhile...work / family are getting all my time these days. But I've started thinking about picking up a compact carry pistol. I have a full-size Sig P229 stainless in .40 so I thought I would go that route to keep ammo purchases common. But it seemed like I remember lots of folks posting disdain for the round. Have I been misled..or are there inherent flaws with this calber...?

The .40 Short & Weak... the bastard child of the 10mm.

Only "relevant" when it was introduced as the FBI pick for THE LE round after the Miami shootout.


Get a .357 SIG barrel for your .40!

Nothing wrong with 40 S&W. Just the pussies bitching about recoil. Its a fine caliber. Plenty of ammo selection. Stay with the 40 if your happy with it. I have a Springfield Armory XD-M w/4.5 inch barrel. Just picked up a glock 27 w/3 inch barrel for my carry. Never an issue.

Love the .40 SW.

Had to dispatch a couple of stray dogs attacking our lab several years ago.  My G22 was what I had handy at the time.  

One shot of 180gr. HST on each stray put them down hard.

ARF spends a lot of time and energy hating the 40.

It's a good round, and I own a few guns chambered in 40 and very much enjoy them.

It's a nice step up from the 9 IMO.

I like the 40 quite a bit.  I like sending heavy 180 grain bullets down range fast.

I like the 9mm as well (Glock 19), but my M&P 40 is always on night duty.

Yep.. Nothing wrong with .40. About 20-25% more energy to the target than 9mm. Depending on the load. So...a bit more energy avaible and only a round or two less capacity than 9. It is a decent comprise IMO

Just to echo what most other people here said, the 40 gets a bad rap in GD, but in reality it is still very relevant. It offers considerable mass and velocity without sacrificing too much capacity.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with 40, so don't believe the hyperbole from the internet.

I don't care for the .40 S&W. Too flippy for what it is even in guns that I like.

.40 S&W is the Neville Chamberlain of pistol rounds.
 

This.

I have 4 handguns chambered in .40

I never got into it, but I have nothing against it.

Plenty of the shit out there.  Go with it if ya dig it.

When everybody was jumping on the .40S&W bandwagon, I was the lone hater. Now, with so much hate for .40, I find myself shooting it more and more.

The truth is that there is nothing really wrong with .40S&S, 9x19 or .45acp. They all offer +/- compromise but none of them are a substitute for a rifle round. Carry what you shoot well and confidently, choose a reputable load and seek proper training and meaningful practice.

Yup

Love me some .40 S&W!
I have found myself shooting and reloading for it more than any other caliber I own.

The twins

Except for those of us that crave the recoil of a full tilt 10mm load.

 

I have no problem with the 40 Smith, owned a few funs chambered for it, pretty much narrowed it down to a Gen4 22 as my go to.

As Supreme Leader and Dictator for Life of the People's Party of .40 S&W.... it is the cartridge of perfection. It is the perfect balance for self defense, offensive operations, suppressed shooting, plinking, and conquering untamed savage lands.

you need a double small of the back holster a la castor troy.

My only .40sw is. San Antonio PD trade-in G22
Almost always wears a Lone wolf 9mm threaded barrel but the .40 barrel is kept handy if needed

I've been eyeing that SS FN .40 that PSA keeps advertising

I got into 40 back in 91 when it first came out. I got a BUNCH of reloading stuff so I never made the switch back to 9mm. 40 doesn't make quite as much sense as it did back then but there is nothing wrong with it. I still think it probably has a slight advantage around automobiles and through long bones. Also my gen 4 glock 23 mitigates the 40 snap quite a bit.

My PD issued S&W 5904/6904 with WW 115 grain JHP +P+ prior to adopting Glock 22/23's and various 180 grain JHP's over the years.  The last load in 40 I carried before retiring was the Federal 180 grain HST.  I worked part time for a Sheriff's department that issued WW 165 grain SXT.  I carried a Glock 27 since 1999 and used whatever ammo the department issued.

I put more faith in shot placement than the difference between 9/40/45 as I have carried all three over the years.  The 45 ACP is very accurate and can do damage even if it doesn't expand.  The downside to the 45 ACP is less capacity for size and weight, generally more recoil,  does not penetrate barriers as well as 9/40 and not as flat shooting beyond 50 yards.

The real advantage of the 40 S&W is it still has good capacity, still flat shooting with decent penetration through barriers and shoots pretty flat out to 100 yards.  The 40's recoil can be a little snappy but still managable.

The 9 MM has good capacity, is one of the easiest pistol calibers to shoot and is easier to train new recruits, shoots flat, penetrates barriers good with higher energy rounds and is flat shooting.   Another advantage of the 9 MM is you can get very compact concealable pistols like the S&W 3913, Shield, or Glock 43.  If I were going back to work in LE I would not hesitate strapping on my Glock 22,  Glock 17 or a Glock 21.  If I suspect trouble I'll grab my AR-15 or Tavor.  

I'm currently carrying a Glock 43 or Glock 42 as I'm retired and am not out looking for trouble and don't want to appear to be armed.  If I was going into a troubled area I might take my Glock 27 or Glock 22 but I'd have a rifle in the car.

It is more important to be a competent shot than the particular handgun or cartridge/bullet.  Training, situational awareness, common sense  and tactics are more important than the caliber of pistol or type of JHP IMHO.  All handguns are a compromise and rifles or shotguns are preferable if available.

I agree with everything you said up to the part in red. There are major differences between the type of bullet, whether FMJ, generic JHP, or some of the premium JHP like Ranger, HST, or Gold Dot. Millions of dollars of research has gone into designing these bullets to achieve top performance in terms of penetration and expansion, both of which (though not equally) are desired for effective hits on target. The 1986 Miami shootout illustrated this perfectly when a poorly designed Winchester Silvertip failed to penetrate and expand properly, allowing the bad guy to remain combat effective while bleeding out from the fatal wound.

It is vitally important to make sure our ammo choices meet minimum standards. Then we can do our part as the shooter.

I'm not a fan of the .40 but I don't hate it either. It generally gives marginally better performance than the 9mm through certain barriers, like auto glass. In a full size gun it's fine.

The P229 is a good platform for the .40.

First time I went shooting I thought my buddys .45 was a little to big for my hands and thought the recoil was a little much. So I went and picked up a springfield XD40 4" having never shot 9mm or .40...

After 4,000 rounds though my XD and probably another 10,000 through various other pistols I cannot find a 9mm I enjoy shooting and would gladly stick with .40 as a carry round for the rest of my days.

My advice, stick with 1 platform for working guns, if you shoot the sig line well, and like the .40, keep with it.

Your right, I should have said newer generation hollow points as the main LE rounds preform similarly if geared toward FBI standards.  If I had a choice betwwen a new 45 ACP Speer Gold Dot and an original 45 ACP Silvertip I'd choose the Gold Dot.   I really believe the newer HP designs are better and my Agency was very concerned about fratricide and over penetration back in the 80's.  Today Agencies realize there are more serious consequences from misses than perforated targets but situational awareness can help reduce fratricide.  

Still rocking my Gen 1 G22 bought in the first year of production.  Indestructable, reliable, and noe with Barnes monolithic TAC in the magazine, more effective than ever.

OP, can you not carry the 229?

There never was a Gen 1 G22. They were introduced as Gen 2 frames. There was a.difference between two and three in frames during production.

 

I very much enjoy shooting my Baby Eagle in .40.  Sure, it's snappy...but whatever.

I like them all

Yes there was, sort of.  The first edition G22 is its Gen 1. I understand what you are saying about the frame design, but it is still, by definition, Gen 1, as it was the first year of production for any .40 Glock.  Made in 1990, it does have the "Gen 2" frame with the checkered front and back straps.

Like 40 here too. STI 2011 eagle and Gen4 G35. For the FPE guys, .40 often has more than factory 45 loads with better sectional density. As a reloader, .40 has a wide range of bullet weights available, 135-200grns. I still load and shoot 9, 45 and 10. But 40 has its place. I like to load it with 200's at 850. Used it in 3gun, it'll knock over that heavy steel that takes 115grn 9mm three consecutive fast hits to topple. Brass is cheap, cases easier to load than 9mm(no taper) and cheaper than 45. Never had an issue with recoil...

My EDC is a P07 DUTY in .40 S&W.  I've only fired one other plastic pistol that compares to it accuracy wise.

Thirteen fast 135 grain Noslers in it and the back up is a 15 round P09 magazine.  With two more in a pouch in the car/truck.

Does it kick more than a 9MM?  Sure.  On both ends.

This^, I shoot 9 and 40, nothing wrong with the 40 and all the arguments are silly.

I shoot a lot of 40 in USPSA but outside that, I have little use for it.

I had a Walther PPS in .40 as a EDC for awhile. Recoil was a little bit snappy, but no worse than the XDs .45 that is my current EDC. The Walther is now my hidden living room gun.

Got into 40 for USPSA.  Had a 1911 built with 40 & 10mm barrels, pretty awesome setup.  But if it weren't for USPSA I probably would have never entered the 40 market. Nonetheless it's a decent cartridge.

I have several .40s and I generally enjoy them. There are certain platforms where I would rather have a different caliber (for example, I want a G19 more than a G23) but the .40 is a good round and isn't the devil that some people make it out to be.

This. I don't see the point of .40 S&W, especially with modern hollowpoints. If you're on the capacity and shot placement side of the argument, why not just use 9mm Para? If you worship at the feet of a heavier, slower round why not just use .45 ACP? In the immortal words of Archie Bunker, it's a freak with a little bit of each and not enough of neither.

10mm Auto is great because it gives you almost .41 mag power in rounds that fly fast and flat, with almost 9mm capacity. It is an interesting and different direction, and a great round when you learn to control the recoil. Its cut down bastard child, OTOH, is just meh. Never been interesting to me. I think it's telling that even the FBI finally dumped .40 and went back to 9mm.

Here's straight doe from someone who started out on .40, was a casual shooter with it, and then moved on.

My first handgun was a .40. I bought it because I was new to shooting and all the magazines were touting what a marvelously effective Felon Repellent .40 was and what a good compromise it was between 9mm that wouldn't kill a cockroach with a headshot and .45 that will dispatch anything in the northern hemisphere just from the shockwave of being within 10 miles of the muzzle when fired.

So I took it home, bought a box of expensive ammo, went to the range, and shot minute of pie plate because it was so hard to shoot. Being a novice shooter, I thought it was just me and that I just needed to practice. This was in the 1990's where shooting instruction was hard to find and a lot more basic than what we have today so I was on my own. With the AWB of 1994, I panic bought a Glock 23, figuring that ammo commonality was smart. That gun was a better fit for my hands than the Taurus I had prior, but it was lighter and the recoil problem I didn't know I had was even worse. After a while I went thru the usual pattern of trying to understand why I couldn't shoot like I thought I should be able to and ended up chalking it up to being "more of a rifle guy than a pistol guy". I lost the better part of a decade improving as a pistol shooter because I shot .40 and didn't know any better.

Then one year, I was given a .22 pistol as a Christmas gift. Suddenly I could shoot very well but I chalked it up to it just being an accurate gun. Eventually, money got good enough that I decided I "needed" a 9mm handgun. I had planned to get a G19, but ended up with a Steyr M9A1. That one shot well but wasn't the gun I really got along with (still have it) but then a long time friend got into custom handgun work and made it really attractive to get into one of his M&P9's.... Holy hell. I finally had a gun I could control the recoil on and had a decent trigger. These days I'm running the hell out of it in USPSA, but I shot it well enough in my first match to place 50.3%...... Even though the mods done to the gun force me into a class with people who shoot decked out competition guns.

All I can tell you OP is that recoil is really bad in a .40, especially in small carry guns. Stick with 9mm-all handgun rounds are weak compared to a rifle round, being able to accurately place rounds in a hurry means more than hoping to get one more powerful round in at center mass and missing with the rest.

I have a hard time telling the difference in recoil between the two.

My hangup is that I can only fit 13 rounds in my beretta 96

 
Because .40 S&W is a hell of a lot better on barrier penetration than 9mm or .45 ACP. I get 15+1 in a platform designed for 9mm. It is fantastic. Auto Glass is a bitch and .40 S&W makes it whimper.

Same here except my nightstand gun is a Sig 2022 with HST's.

I had a 2022 in .40 S&W.... gave it to my Father. He enjoys the heck out of it.

 

This.  For the last almost 20 years I've been shooting .40 cals and have zero issues.

I carry a Khar CM40 and G27 daily.  I like .40 because of the barrier performance.  Most of my interaction with the public is in or around vehicles.   The 180 grn .40 is hard to beat when the main barriers are car parts.  Plus the HST 180 grn punches a mean hole in the gel tests I've seen.  

Having said this my house guns are 9mm.  A G17 and G19 because that's what the wife can shoot, specifically HST 147 grn.

John Browning rolling over in his grave.....

This.  I am rolling mainly with 9mm now for other reasons, but my G23 has had NO malfunctions in 16 years and has always done everything I asked it to.

JMB designed a .40 Caliber Cartridge for the 1911 before the 1911 was the 1911. Also his design for the Hi-Power was striker fired.