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Posted: 4/24/2016 10:46:47 PM EDT
I wanted to add some actual data points to this discussion, so here is the result of my impromptu testing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVC-83QW5L4

If somebody would like to embed that video, I'd be grateful.

If nothing else, I hope this video makes you think when you read the musings of self-styled experts on the internet.  Are they relating their observations to you, or just repeating what they've been told?
Link Posted: 4/24/2016 11:12:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Really my head hurts watching that  ........      when I joined  arfcom   I seen this topic come up.... I went into  the oldest ammo box I had of 5.56 loaded  30 rd   mags.    and  put two of those mags into my range bag........   they work just fine......   date was summer of 85  ...30 years ....    
     spring  creep  I will have to live 500 years   for this mag spring   to be un serviceable
Link Posted: 4/24/2016 11:21:53 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
Really my head hurts watching that  ........      when I joined  arfcom   I seen this topic come up.... I went into  the oldest ammo box I had of 5.56 loaded  30 rd   mags.    and  put two of those mags into my range bag........   they work just fine......   date was summer of 85  ...30 years ....    
     spring  creep  I will have to live 500 years   for this mag spring   to be un serviceable
View Quote



If you watch my video, you will note that springs from different manufacturers faired differently, and that none of the magazines exhibited any functional issues.

Or you could just
Link Posted: 4/25/2016 6:16:06 AM EDT
[#3]
Springs taking a 'set' is like the motor oil debate.  Good luck finding a consensus.

All that said, when UZI inventor Uziel Gal passed away, allegedly his possessions included stored disassembled UZI magazines - so, he was a believer.

Ray
Link Posted: 4/25/2016 7:21:30 AM EDT
[#4]
40 years of shooting i have seen two "magazine" springs go bad.
One was in a raven 25 that had stayed loaded in my tackle box for 30 years.

The other is in an old tube fed 22 bolt gun.

The spring guy i know in the spring business swears it's cycles that wear out springs "unless" they have a defect.
Link Posted: 4/25/2016 7:29:41 AM EDT
[#5]
I have some AR style mags that have produced setting. Last round fails to hold back bolt.

Same thing with Springfield XDM mags, had all fail after a couple years, went Wolf Springs, no issues, 35% more tension.

While others may not have issues, I did.
Link Posted: 4/25/2016 7:54:34 AM EDT
[#6]
The general consensus seems to be that they don't, but I know the G17 mags I left fully loaded for a couple years now feel softer than the others I kept unloaded.
Link Posted: 4/25/2016 8:31:24 AM EDT
[#7]
Despite the results of my test I still do not believe that an OEM magazine from a manufacturer with a reputation for defensive firearms of good quality will fail due to being loaded for X years.

The three firearms in my test all functioned flawlessly, and I immediately loaded the LC9 magazine up with hollowpoints and will be carrying it today without a worry in my mind.

That being said, there obviously is some kind of effect - those springs didn't get shorter for fun and I did not rig this test.  The most worrying springs were the M&P9 springs.  Although they lost a similar amount of length as the LC9 springs, the LC9 spring was still a great deal longer than the magazine body it goes into.  When I reassembled the LC9 magazines, I didn't even notice the difference between the springs that were stored unloaded vs. the loaded one.

When I reassembled the M&P9 magazines, there was an obvious difference in the amount of force required to compress the spring into the magazine body.   Still, all three magazines functioned fine and locked the slide back - I would trust them for years to come as I suspect the rate of spring power lost has exponential decay - that is, as years go on, the loss is rapid at first but sort of levels out.

Take a minute and watch the video in the OP, I don't think either side of this debate has it right exactly.
Link Posted: 4/25/2016 8:38:21 AM EDT
[#8]
I didn't watch the video but some testing was done on m14 mags by the military. They measured spring pressure from loaded vs unloaded over time. The springs did reduce in strength when they were loaded for extended periods of time. They will still work but if you want max life store your Springs in an uncompressed state.

Link Posted: 4/25/2016 9:23:56 AM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
I didn't watch the video but some testing was done on m14 mags by the military. They measured spring pressure from loaded vs unloaded over time. The springs did reduce in strength when they were loaded for extended periods of time. They will still work but if you want max life store your Springs in an uncompressed state.
View Quote


I have not run across the results of that test, but that result is the gist of my video as well.

If this testing was extended, I would expect to get different results from different models and/or manufacturers of magazines. One particular brand/model of magazine displayed wear that I would consider "slight" compared to the others in my testing, which doesn't mean that the others are bad designs, just that the manufacturer of that particular model of magazine seemingly came up with a design that exhibits less spring creep.
Link Posted: 4/25/2016 11:32:13 AM EDT
[#10]
A brand new spring will generally be a bit more stout than its actual expected working pressure.  If I took brand new magazines, fully loaded them, and let them sit for a decade, I would expect them to take a set, but that would be about the same as they would by simply using them and breaking them in.

That is different than springs wearing out to the point where they no longer perform as expected.  And simply sitting compressed is not usually reason that happens.  That usually results from cycling.   If they are over compressed, or the material was defective, or exposed to conditions that changed the metal, those are reasons you could experience failure from magazines that were not used regularly.  But them simply sitting there is not the reason.
Link Posted: 4/25/2016 11:42:56 AM EDT
[#11]
No.
Link Posted: 4/25/2016 12:06:09 PM EDT
[#12]
Any mechanical or structural engineer will tell you that springs DO take a "set".

There is no debate about it, its an easily tested and observed physical phenomenon.

It has been incorporated into engineering design for probably 200+ years.


You know how a piano or a guitar loses its tune and the strings need to be tightened?  That's due to strain relaxation, aka "spring set".


The amount of spring relaxation or creep depends on certain variables like duration, temperature, compression, etc.

If you want to read about the general principles, see the following:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_relaxation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creep_(deformation)


The actual pertinent question is:

Were the magazine springs properly designed to allow for "spring set"?

Obviously, in most cases they were designed properly and the spring set does not affect proper function of the magazine.

Taking a wild guess, I would say that a mag spring left loaded for a real long time would lose around 10% to 15% of its compression force.

If the guy who designed the mag takes that into account, then it won't be a problem.



Please cut and paste the above into every thread where a bunch of guys insist that spring set is an unknown enigma of mysteriousness.  

Eventually it will filter down to the lowest gun shop bubba, but it's going to take around 50 years.
Link Posted: 4/25/2016 2:25:42 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
The actual pertinent question is:

Were the magazine springs properly designed to allow for "spring set"?

Obviously, in most cases they were designed properly and the spring set does not affect proper function of the magazine.

Taking a wild guess, I would say that a mag spring left loaded for a real long time would lose around 10% to 15% of its compression force.

If the guy who designed the mag takes that into account, then it won't be a problem.
View Quote


Good post, this is the point I'm trying to make in the linked video in the OP for the most part.
Link Posted: 4/25/2016 2:26:51 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
No.
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Did a witch curse my magazines then?
Link Posted: 4/25/2016 5:08:00 PM EDT
[#15]
No.

Link Posted: 4/25/2016 5:10:11 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
No.

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I'll put you in the "a witch did it!" column as well.
Link Posted: 4/29/2016 5:56:45 AM EDT
[#17]
Supposedly quality springs only 'wear' from cycling, not compression.

I think you can get an issue with 'overcompression' which either will wear them out just under compression, or considerably faster with cycling. I can't remember where I got that info or when.

At work we load rifle mags two short. Supposedly helps considerably with locking and feeding issues; and supposedly makes them all last longer. Both the ones that get used lots and the ones that just stay laoded.

ETA: When I get a new pistol, I lock the slide back, load all the mags up; and let them sit for a couple weeks like that. Supposedly 'relaxes' the springs.
Link Posted: 4/29/2016 6:38:52 AM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
Supposedly quality springs only 'wear' from cycling, not compression.
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Nailed it. There's actually a physics equation for this that I learned in college. But it's been awhile so I can't remember exactly what it was
Link Posted: 4/29/2016 1:14:07 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:


Nailed it. There's actually a physics equation for this that I learned in college. But it's been awhile so I can't remember exactly what it was
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Supposedly quality springs only 'wear' from cycling, not compression.


Nailed it. There's actually a physics equation for this that I learned in college. But it's been awhile so I can't remember exactly what it was


Within a range, right? There is such thing as over compression I've been told.
Link Posted: 4/30/2016 1:35:25 PM EDT
[#20]
In 30+ yrs of keeping my mags loaded, NEVER had a problem!  That's REAL world, not You Tube BS, or any other "expert" BS!
Link Posted: 4/30/2016 1:55:13 PM EDT
[#21]
I've experienced both. I've had pistol magazines that have been loaded for years with no ill effect. I kept a Mossberg shotgun loaded for at least a year and the last couple of rounds wouldn't feed.
Link Posted: 5/1/2016 4:44:02 AM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:

Within a range, right? There is such thing as over compression I've been told.
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Correct - this is assuming nominal use.
Link Posted: 5/1/2016 8:41:34 AM EDT
[#23]
It's been my understanding that springs only wear when they are being worked.  Just think of how many firearms get stored for years with their hammers cocked back or their firing pins set, ready to fire?
Link Posted: 5/1/2016 1:47:19 PM EDT
[#24]
Bottom of the barrel low cost and quality springs could.

Correctly designed, made, and tempered springs do not.
Link Posted: 5/1/2016 2:19:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Link Posted: 5/1/2016 2:57:30 PM EDT
[#26]
I keep my fiddles stored without tight springs.

Wears them out and my bass strings were like 160$......  way too much money to waste
Link Posted: 5/2/2016 2:04:52 PM EDT
[#27]
To all of the nay-sayers - how do you explain the results of my linked video in the OP?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVC-83QW5L4

If being compressed for years didn't wear my springs more than constant use did, then what?
Link Posted: 5/8/2016 7:03:56 PM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:
The general consensus seems to be that they don't, but I know the G17 mags I left fully loaded for a couple years now feel softer than the others I kept unloaded.
View Quote


I had a bunch of police surplus G22 mags I bought after the ban that took a set and started jamming. Only mag springs I have ever had worn out.
Link Posted: 5/8/2016 7:44:34 PM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:


I had a bunch of police surplus G22 mags I bought after the ban that took a set and started jamming. Only mag springs I have ever had worn out.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The general consensus seems to be that they don't, but I know the G17 mags I left fully loaded for a couple years now feel softer than the others I kept unloaded.


I had a bunch of police surplus G22 mags I bought after the ban that took a set and started jamming. Only mag springs I have ever had worn out.


I think this is going to be highly variable between manufacturers and even different models.  Those police surplus mags were probably loaded and left that way between qualifications, and maybe cycled a handful of times per year.

My G21 mag springs performed the best in my test from the OP, hardly losing any length compared to magazines that were used continuously but stored unloaded.  They did still loose a little length, though.
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