Yes. Anybody who says otherwise is wrong.

I still love mine, but it's for nostalgic purposes. My personally owned M1A is reliable and accurate enough, all of our issued M14s got the job done.

Proof, I'm part of the club



It's purely sentimental. There are simply better choices today. I would've traded every one of those M14s for M110s downrange.

The Merriam-Webster definition isn't entirely appropriate to the conversation; that's not how the military measures the effectiveness of it's small arms. In the era of NVG's, IR, and day optics, the rifle is obsolete. It flat out does nothing even half as well as modern rifles offered by KAC or FN. Sure you can prop up the rifle with a "modern" chassis system but that sends weight through the roof at a time when troops are already over weight with other equipment.

The M1A is a good rifle but it is entirely obsolete on the modern battlefield. It's an effective hunting, target, or Partisan rifle but to carry that thing into combat with a basic combat load? No. Thanks.

The modern AR10 and SCAR crap all over the M14/M1A. As I mentioned in a previous post, the M110 series is easier to scope, easier to clean, more accurate, easier to maintain at the Armorer level, and shares the same manual of arms with the M4, an already trained up weapon system. Don't forget its dark half the time so IR and NVG equipment functionality comes into play too. Those modern stocks turn an already heavy rifle into a damn pig; If I'm carrying that kind of weight it better be because I drew an M249 from the armory.

Again, I've got no bone to pick with the rifle or the guys that like the M14 type rifles. I like them myself and prefer the fullsize. Getting prone behind that gun and enjoying those awesome iron sights is something everyone should experience but it is obsolete in the current era.

I guess it depends on what you're comfortable with.

I had an AR10 rifle that would shoot rings around my M1A, NM from the bench.

However, standing, sitting, anything other than totally supported, I shot the M1A much better.

The rifle just fit me better. I find the stock much more "natural" and to me it handles much better.

It handled better than my DSA FAL as well, and shot better. I've also owned a G-3, and the M1A was a better handling and feeling gun to me that any of them, and due to that, I shot it better. It carries better to me as well.

For me, if I was looking at a .308, I'd most likely go M1A NM, or the lighter weight Gen II .308 ARs.

I've had the Scout model M1A as well as the NM, both in synthetic stocks, which you can get a tight fit with without bedding , though I love the looks of the wood stocks.

Yeah, but when you use them extra long mags it makes it so much better.  

Thanks for serving and sharing here!!!!!!

Would you be willing to expand on the "WHY" of your reason for saying you'd rather have M110's?

My pleasure, yeah the M110 was just better in the maintenance and ergonomics department. Those rock in magazines and no bolt release are really a pain in the butt under stress.
Both performed reliably, and both were close enough in accuracy, both felt about the same weight wise but to be honest I think the M110 was a smidgin heavier.
When people come down hard on the EBR program I'll defend it. We smoked a lot of dudes with the M14. It wasn't a complete failure. But if I think if the marksmen had to choose one every one of them would have wanted the M110.

Wow, thanks for the words.  Are you back home and safe now?  

Could I also ask you what your thoughts are about the difference between .308 and 5.56 for longer range engagements?  I have always thought that the .308 will hit harder at distance, and buck the wind better.  But admittedly I have not done a comparison past 200 yards.  Yet there are a lot of people claiming the 5.56 is just as good in these regards.  I like both rounds and I sure as heck like that a 5.56 can be used a lot further than it once was with Mk262 and such.  But I also don't quite understand how a round that can kill an Elk at 300 yards, or so, is somehow not superior to the 5.56 in the killing dept.  

That's an awesome pic.  I know you probably hear it a lot but we're seriously proud of you guys.

Honestly I think I speak for most combat MOSs when I say thanks are really not necessary or even deserved. It was well and truly my pleasure to have had the honor of working with those guys and doing/seeing the things we did.

As far as 5.56 vs .308, my experiences are mine alone and limited to just what I saw, so I wouldn't consider them any sort of gospel. Firefights were daily for about 6 months out of the year in our area (Kunar/Nuristan). I felt like the Army did a good job of giving us what we needed, weapons wise. My platoon had more weapons than Soldiers, especially by the end when we were down 10 guys less, so you could pretty much pick "what do I want/need for this mission? M4, maybe with a 203? M14? Mk46? Mk48?" and proceed accordingly. Nighttime raid on a compound? M4 maybe with a suppressor. 3 day patrol base in them thar hills? I'll take something with a little more oomph.
5.56 was fine at distances you'd expect it to be and even some more. One firefight the PL spotted a guy across the river and called it out to the M14 marksman in his truck. The marksman called out "see him" *boom, boom, boom* "got him". "No you didn't, I'm still looking at him" "Then I shot a different guy" "Here I'll mark him with a tracer mag". The PL then fired 25 or so rounds at a guy who was doing his damnedest to pretend to be a rock or a stump or anything but a person. Finally the M14 spotted the tracers (which are pretty hard to pick up during the day) but the bullet landed right at the dudes feet. This time he decided playing scenery wasn't working and decided to run up the mountain behind him, which was a mistake. "Oh I see him" said the marksman, but now the PL had the range and said "Wait wait I think I can get this guy." And then proceeded to burn one right into the guys back.
Lased the distance, 800 meters. With M856 tracer, out of a 14.5" barrel. There was a lot of luck and an entire magazine's worth of ammo involved, but if the equipment wasn't up to it there would have been no chance at all.
I did feel like that was obviously a fluke though, the 7.62 guys, especially the ones who regularly practiced and knew their dope and ranges to reference points, were scary good. Especially the snipers, who usually preferred the M2010 with the 300 win mag.


Gratuitous M14 EBR shot again.



And sure, M2010, why not.

I agree with most. they are cool rifles and I always wanted a 18" scout, but its just too big,heavy,expensive and difficult to get it setup for most roles. If you want a no frills accurate reliable battle rifle and don't mind the weight and cost go for it.

My thinking has taken a long time to get to where I'm at now, but here's MY theory. I even call it my "AR Theory".

For the common caliber stuff, which makes ammunition generally cheaper, plentiful, and has a lot of specialy rounds; I say get it in an AR.

I currently have more AK platform firearms than AR's by far, and I wish I didn't. With the AK's, decent accessories are hard to find at a cost that isn't too much for the returns. Simply to mount optics can easily/usually becomes a journey. Like trying to turn an M1A into the current SDM/DMR/EBR rifles the military dropped hard cash on to do total rebuilds.

The first thing to start giving AK's the useful features we're used to having for an AR, like mounting optics, mounting weapon lights, or simply a more compact stock; gets expensive. You can do it cheap, but the cheap parts have almost always failed me. What about current options like the Magpul AK stuff. Not worth the money to put into an AK. Again, back to the cool-factor, like with the M1A.

Get a quality AR-10. A GAP AR-10 built by Seekins is like $2500. It'll out shoot the M1A and even make you wonder why you have the $1600+ precision Rem 700 any more. Even bolt guns are starting to go by the wayside unless you need an absolute tack driver. Or slow fire competitions.

So ya, would get rid of almost every AK, to include a PSL that is currently a problem just to mount a decent optic on, and just get an AR-10. Would also sell my bolt gun if the plan was for a GAP or Seekins AR10. So ya. The AR theory. Even for 7.62x39, get it in an AR platform like the mutant.

If you are looking at it on the more practical side, AR to replace most everything. If the looks or history is something you like that much, then anything else. Build some mil clones even.

Those 2010's are wild.  Next time I go shoot long range I'll be sure to bring my couple of boxes of M856.  That must've been quite a shot.  You must have some wild stories with that many engagements going on.

Glad you appear to be back home and safe.    And thanks for sharing your experience.  

I took this picture in late 2014 in RC East outside of FOB Shank (Directly North of the former FOB Altimur for those familiar with the area).  That is my M14 closest to the camera and my Soldiers in the background (humoursly enough, the picture is even still hotlinked to my photobucket account). The M14 is by no means obsolete. Has it been outclassed? Absolutely. The weapon I have in my hand is worth a thousand times more to me than the newer better weapon I don't have access to.

We requested the M14's shortly after we got in country and were fortunate enough to receive them, they filled a gap in our capabilities.  We were either being engaged from less than 100 meters amidst compounds and fields or out to 600-1000m (even to 1300m effectively on one instance. terry taliban with a Lee Enfield who was dialed in up in Kherwar).  These weapons added to our ability to identify targets and return accurate fire in an area and point in time when the ROE was strict and colateral damage was strictly verboten.  

I would have loved to have more M110's (let alone SCAR 17's) than just the one I had in my platoon, but that did not happen.  What I had were M14's that even in their old age contributed to the lethalitly and survivabilty of the poor infantryman who had to hump that amazing hunk of steel up and down the mountains of RC East.  She kicked my ass at times, but I was happy to have her.

Obsolete? No way.

Hey man who were you with? I was with 2-27 at Pirtle King and Barge Matal, same deployment. Shit was ra-eeeeeeeel

Steve-oh, quick question; what type of ammo did you use in your small arms (M4, M14)

Was the 7.62 NATO match ammo or plain ball ammo?

I know this wasn't directed at me but I imagine the answers are the same. We used M855A1 in the M4's, M118LR(175gr match grade)  in the M14's, and M80 (147gr) ball for the m240's.

Plus he mentioned M856.  Tracers for the M4's.  But that's a great question.  I always wonder how prevalent MK262 is for our guys.  Not sure if it only gets issued when somebody has a MK12 or something like that.

We used M118LR for the M14s, but we also had someone accidentally send us the wrong ammo one time, literally thousands of rounds of 7.62 slung in to us as M118LR but when we opened the crates it was ammo marked 1968 and on 5 round stripper clips. It didn't shoot that great. The M110s mostly used MK316(?) I think, but honestly I'm not sure. It was a while ago. I know it was harder to find that and it was supposedly better and remained supersonic out longer.

M2010s used... I think mk248? I can't remember, but it was a 220 grain bullet. It required friending up to SOF types to basically get gifted off the books because it wasn't available to recon/infantry guys yet.

Also, correct. MK262 was used only for the guys with precision-type 5.56 weapons, but it performed well. The rest of us had to do with whatever we could scrounge up, usually M855A1 was the fall-back for M4A1s.

Here's my contribution to the thread - the Scout has been upgraded (since this picture) with an SEI GLFS and Vortex DC Flash hider, also has a Sadlak NM guide rod, extended mag release, extended bolt catch and M1913 swivel rail on the stock. I'm saving up for the Sage Chassis, SEI Scope mount and a Vortex PST 6-24x50 scope (EBR-1 MOA reticle).

Very Nice!

After using the Sage Chassis for 10 years, I replaced it with the lighter, more versatile Blackfeather "RS".

Steve-oh and ATravis11B, thanks for the info. Closest thing to exotic I saw in the Marines in Sangin 2010 I saw was Mk318.

I too am stuck between an M1A and DPMS Recon II. This thread has been great.

Great pic!!!!

I assumed you wouldn't mind that I put this over in the Mk12 thread in AR discussions.  If you do mind, let me know and I'll take it down.  You might get some attention from all of them if they figure out where the pic came from.    But I also thought they'd enjoy it.

i have a m1a scout squad not obsolete to me.High cap mags and .308 goodness.

I needed an M1A to go with the FAL I bought after the divorce.

In answer to the original question posed..........................................NEVER!!

I have owned M1As in the past and sold all but one. They are good rifles but there are better. The FAL I a better battle rifle and if you want to spend more the SCAR17 would be my next 308 battle rifle. I'd consider an AR10 too but I'd rather have an FAL or SCAR.

I don't  know.  I think the FAL has more felt recoil and makes follow up shots slower.  Just my impression.  Now a SCAR I've got no arguments against.  I've never shot one and their reputation is very good.  So.....

The M1A is high on my list of guns to own. I have had more fun with my M!A's than just about any of my rifles. It just feels good to shoot.

obsolete? quite the contrary.

cam the m1a still do the job yes
is there something that can do the job better yes

is it obsolete - most likely
will that bring down the price or number of buyers nope

Personally, I want to get my hands on an old McMillan M2A stock for the M1A; I really like the look of the old USMC M14 DMRs.

To which navy do those folks belong? The French "lizard" pattern uniforms leads me to believe something the South Pacific.