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Posted: 8/14/2015 2:33:11 PM EDT
Keltech has that RBD coming out, a doward ejecting bullpup.  Bullpups have proven them sellves in mil service I guess (Aug).  I shoudl admit that I am left handed and I have a a desire for a bullpup.  The way tht RDB ejects out the bottom, is fully ambidexterous is pretty sweet, it means less chance of stoppages from port obstruction when tryign to shoot w/ yoru body, the ground or a wall near the off side of the gun.


Leaving aside that it is a bull pup.  Leaving aside that it is keltech. Both of those are different questions.  My concern focuse around the novel-ish arrangement of the feeding and ejection and the impact on clearing posisble stoppages (browning made some shotugns that did this, but tube mag fed).  

It is signicaficanlty different in design from the PS90 in that both the magazine and the ejection port are on the bottom.  This means that in order to really inspect the chamber one would have to remove the magazine.  The PS90, on th eohter hand, is analougous to a conventionally ejecting arm, in its action, in that the feeding and ejection are on differents sides of the chamber at its entrance.  The only thing differnt about it is that you have to up the bottom to see the chamber rather than on the other side of the weapon.  W/ the RDB however, the ejection orrucrs on the same side as the feeding but further behind it, so the only view of the chamber is behind the magazine.  

Is this viable for a fighting weapons?  Does anyone have any idea how one would inspect hte chamber or clear various types of stoppages?  Is it more of a probably of a lack of experience and doctrine or is it really a real problem?

The FS2000 is also interesting.  I find its port door acceptable (toilet seat) for inspecting hte hcamber and addressing possible stoppages, but I dont' feel comfortable w/ the breech being unshielded from my face w/o a solid barrier on the top of the gun incase of a Kaboom.  Really, I don't even know why FN isn't afraid of the liability of putting someone's eye out.  Plus I always feld like the forward ejection was perhaps a little complicated, a potential point of failure, though I never had a problem w/ it before I sold it.

Link Posted: 8/14/2015 5:47:42 PM EDT
[#1]
The RFB's been coming out for years, like bruce gender, only time will tell.

Most serious mfg do extensive field testing prior to delivery of their product.  Having  a"solid barrier" doesn't always mean you face is going to escape the brunt of a failure. IMO you're over thinking it
Link Posted: 8/15/2015 12:09:14 AM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The RFB's been coming out for years, like bruce gender, only time will tell.

Most serious mfg do extensive field testing prior to delivery of their product.  Having  a"solid barrier" doesn't always mean you face is going to escape the brunt of a failure. IMO you're over thinking it
View Quote


 maybe i am, but pressure always takes the path of least resistance.  The aluinum extrusion on the RFB , for example, would almoost certainly resist more than the magazine or its floor plate.  I know that if a fs2k breech ever let loose thhat pressure is going straight up out the toilet seat.
Link Posted: 8/15/2015 11:14:50 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Keltech has that RBD coming out, a doward ejecting bullpup.  Bullpups have proven them sellves in mil service I guess (Aug).  I shoudl admit that I am left handed and I have a a desire for a bullpup.  The way tht RDB ejects out the bottom, is fully ambidexterous is pretty sweet, it means less chance of stoppages from port obstruction when tryign to shoot w/ yoru body, the ground or a wall near the off side of the gun.

Leaving aside that it is a bull pup.  Leaving aside that it is keltech. Both of those are different questions.  My concern focuse around the novel-ish arrangement of the feeding and ejection and the impact on clearing posisble stoppages (browning made some shotugns that did this, but tube mag fed).  

It is signicaficanlty different in design from the PS90 in that both the magazine and the ejection port are on the bottom.  This means that in order to really inspect the chamber one would have to remove the magazine.  The PS90, on th eohter hand, is analougous to a conventionally ejecting arm, in its action, in that the feeding and ejection are on differents sides of the chamber at its entrance.  The only thing differnt about it is that you have to up the bottom to see the chamber rather than on the other side of the weapon.  W/ the RDB however, the ejection orrucrs on the same side as the feeding but further behind it, so the only view of the chamber is behind the magazine.  

Is this viable for a fighting weapons?  Does anyone have any idea how one would inspect hte chamber or clear various types of stoppages?  Is it more of a probably of a lack of experience and doctrine or is it really a real problem?

The FS2000 is also interesting.  I find its port door acceptable (toilet seat) for inspecting hte hcamber and addressing possible stoppages, but I dont' feel comfortable w/ the breech being unshielded from my face w/o a solid barrier on the top of the gun incase of a Kaboom.  Really, I don't even know why FN isn't afraid of the liability of putting someone's eye out.  Plus I always feld like the forward ejection was perhaps a little complicated, a potential point of failure, though I never had a problem w/ it before I sold it.

View Quote


When you are a NATO nation that does some light counter terrorism/counter insurgency stuff, a bull pup is fine.

When you are the NATO nation Special Forces, or the American military that does the actual fighting for those NATO armies you don't use a bullpup.

So my answer is no.
Link Posted: 8/15/2015 11:18:40 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


 maybe i am, but pressure always takes the path of least resistance.  The aluinum extrusion on the RFB , for example, would almoost certainly resist more than the magazine or its floor plate.  I know that if a fs2k breech ever let loose thhat pressure is going straight up out the toilet seat.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
The RFB's been coming out for years, like bruce gender, only time will tell.

Most serious mfg do extensive field testing prior to delivery of their product.  Having  a"solid barrier" doesn't always mean you face is going to escape the brunt of a failure. IMO you're over thinking it


 maybe i am, but pressure always takes the path of least resistance.  The aluinum extrusion on the RFB , for example, would almoost certainly resist more than the magazine or its floor plate.  I know that if a fs2k breech ever let loose thhat pressure is going straight up out the toilet seat.


Ya'll are talking about the RDB.

The RFB is .308 and has two layers of 16ga steel between the chamber and your face.  Mine has never blown up
Link Posted: 8/15/2015 1:22:05 PM EDT
[#5]
My rfb had an oob detonation. Pretty scarry. Only had a small cut on forearm from the mag baseplate flying off and slicing my skin  

Bot. I think execution. If the rdb controls the round completely ok. If not i can see it having
Spectacular jams. Jams on my ksg are spectacular.
Link Posted: 8/23/2015 10:20:57 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My rfb had an oob detonation. Pretty scarry. Only had a small cut on forearm from the mag baseplate flying off and slicing my skin  

Bot. I think execution. If the rdb controls the round completely ok. If not i can see it having
Spectacular jams. Jams on my ksg are spectacular.
View Quote


does it jam other then when it is shortstroked?
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 12:42:18 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


When you are a NATO nation that does some light counter terrorism/counter insurgency stuff, a bull pup is fine.

When you are the NATO nation Special Forces, or the American military that does the actual fighting for those NATO armies you don't use a bullpup.

So my answer is no.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Keltech has that RBD coming out, a doward ejecting bullpup.  Bullpups have proven them sellves in mil service I guess (Aug).  I shoudl admit that I am left handed and I have a a desire for a bullpup.  The way tht RDB ejects out the bottom, is fully ambidexterous is pretty sweet, it means less chance of stoppages from port obstruction when tryign to shoot w/ yoru body, the ground or a wall near the off side of the gun.

Leaving aside that it is a bull pup.  Leaving aside that it is keltech. Both of those are different questions.  My concern focuse around the novel-ish arrangement of the feeding and ejection and the impact on clearing posisble stoppages (browning made some shotugns that did this, but tube mag fed).  

It is signicaficanlty different in design from the PS90 in that both the magazine and the ejection port are on the bottom.  This means that in order to really inspect the chamber one would have to remove the magazine.  The PS90, on th eohter hand, is analougous to a conventionally ejecting arm, in its action, in that the feeding and ejection are on differents sides of the chamber at its entrance.  The only thing differnt about it is that you have to up the bottom to see the chamber rather than on the other side of the weapon.  W/ the RDB however, the ejection orrucrs on the same side as the feeding but further behind it, so the only view of the chamber is behind the magazine.  

Is this viable for a fighting weapons?  Does anyone have any idea how one would inspect hte chamber or clear various types of stoppages?  Is it more of a probably of a lack of experience and doctrine or is it really a real problem?

The FS2000 is also interesting.  I find its port door acceptable (toilet seat) for inspecting hte hcamber and addressing possible stoppages, but I dont' feel comfortable w/ the breech being unshielded from my face w/o a solid barrier on the top of the gun incase of a Kaboom.  Really, I don't even know why FN isn't afraid of the liability of putting someone's eye out.  Plus I always feld like the forward ejection was perhaps a little complicated, a potential point of failure, though I never had a problem w/ it before I sold it.



When you are a NATO nation that does some light counter terrorism/counter insurgency stuff, a bull pup is fine.

When you are the NATO nation Special Forces, or the American military that does the actual fighting for those NATO armies you don't use a bullpup.

So my answer is no.


Israeili IDF might take issue with you about bullpup for actual fighting. Tavor T21 does not bottom eject, however.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 11:28:50 PM EDT
[#8]
Nothing with the name 'Kel-Tec' on it will ever see military service, which is a good thing for our military.

All that aside, the M240 and M249 eject the casings out the bottom. Only problem I've ever seen is a M240 mounted in a mount that, even with a bit of space under it, would bounce brass off of its mount and back into the weapon, jamming it.

With that FS2000... I don't like malfunctions I can't easily clear. Someone ran one at a course I attended, and she had some issues and definitely had to use some work-arounds with it to make it work. And with the RBD, doesn't that eject out the front?
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 6:08:38 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Israeili IDF might take issue with you about bullpup for actual fighting. Tavor T21 does not bottom eject, however.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Keltech has that RBD coming out, a doward ejecting bullpup.  Bullpups have proven them sellves in mil service I guess (Aug).  I shoudl admit that I am left handed and I have a a desire for a bullpup.  The way tht RDB ejects out the bottom, is fully ambidexterous is pretty sweet, it means less chance of stoppages from port obstruction when tryign to shoot w/ yoru body, the ground or a wall near the off side of the gun.

Leaving aside that it is a bull pup.  Leaving aside that it is keltech. Both of those are different questions.  My concern focuse around the novel-ish arrangement of the feeding and ejection and the impact on clearing posisble stoppages (browning made some shotugns that did this, but tube mag fed).  

It is signicaficanlty different in design from the PS90 in that both the magazine and the ejection port are on the bottom.  This means that in order to really inspect the chamber one would have to remove the magazine.  The PS90, on th eohter hand, is analougous to a conventionally ejecting arm, in its action, in that the feeding and ejection are on differents sides of the chamber at its entrance.  The only thing differnt about it is that you have to up the bottom to see the chamber rather than on the other side of the weapon.  W/ the RDB however, the ejection orrucrs on the same side as the feeding but further behind it, so the only view of the chamber is behind the magazine.  

Is this viable for a fighting weapons?  Does anyone have any idea how one would inspect hte chamber or clear various types of stoppages?  Is it more of a probably of a lack of experience and doctrine or is it really a real problem?

The FS2000 is also interesting.  I find its port door acceptable (toilet seat) for inspecting hte hcamber and addressing possible stoppages, but I dont' feel comfortable w/ the breech being unshielded from my face w/o a solid barrier on the top of the gun incase of a Kaboom.  Really, I don't even know why FN isn't afraid of the liability of putting someone's eye out.  Plus I always feld like the forward ejection was perhaps a little complicated, a potential point of failure, though I never had a problem w/ it before I sold it.



When you are a NATO nation that does some light counter terrorism/counter insurgency stuff, a bull pup is fine.

When you are the NATO nation Special Forces, or the American military that does the actual fighting for those NATO armies you don't use a bullpup.

So my answer is no.


Israeili IDF might take issue with you about bullpup for actual fighting. Tavor T21 does not bottom eject, however.


What prolonged conflict has the Tavor seen constant combat use in?
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 8:23:35 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Nothing with the name 'Kel-Tec' on it will ever see military service, which is a good thing for our military.

All that aside, the M240 and M249 eject the casings out the bottom. Only problem I've ever seen is a M240 mounted in a mount that, even with a bit of space under it, would bounce brass off of its mount and back into the weapon, jamming it.

With that FS2000... I don't like malfunctions I can't easily clear. Someone ran one at a course I attended, and she had some issues and definitely had to use some work-arounds with it to make it work. And with the RBD, doesn't that eject out the front?
View Quote


RFB (308) is forward eject,  RDB (556) is downward,  behind the mag.
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