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Posted: 7/31/2015 2:31:43 PM EDT
[#1]
BTW, how does one technically "surrender under protest."
I get that it gives you subsequent legal standing, but how do you do it and establish that you did it thus rather than merely surrendering it w/o protest? You send a certified letter to the ATF or have the guy coming to collect sign something or you take a video of you handing it to the guy and saying "I surrender this under protest..." Seems similar to "not consenting" to a search while not resesisting said search. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 12:16:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tag. Need donations? Same here. I'm not a lawyer or politician but would be glad to help in other ways. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 8:41:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Tag
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Posted: 8/3/2015 3:20:21 PM EDT
[#4]
tag. Sounds like calls and letters to the capitol are in order.
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Posted: 8/3/2015 5:17:14 PM EDT
[#5]
All this BATF reclassification bs is giving me heartburn. Tagging along for updates.
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Posted: 8/4/2015 2:00:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Any updates to this would be greatly appreciated.
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Posted: 8/4/2015 2:51:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any updates to this would be greatly appreciated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any updates to this would be greatly appreciated. Not saying this is with the OP of this thread, but some progress is being made: Quoted:
Quoted:
Bump. You guys are slacking. Keep this thing going. I spoke to a potential plaintiff tonight. Per GD thread here. |
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Posted: 8/4/2015 3:38:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All that "support" from the ATF man, but he took your rounds anyway.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ok so a update. The agent that showed up was an actual bomb tech. I surrendered the rounds under protest per the advice of a attorney. The bomb tech was a really cool guy. He agreed that it was pretty stupid and he hated to do it but he was being forced to help out with the case. He did also tell me that they had sent him out to take 40mm chalk rounds under the same case. I walked out to the truck with him and watched him place the rounds in the explosive magazine in his truck. When I told him I was surrendering the rounds under protest he looked at me and said "good I hope you can fight it and get them back because this whole situation is stupid." I'm not sure if I will go to court over it or not. I'm not out enough money for it to be a big deal but it's an issue that has me concerned. I know there are not enough people out there with registered DD M203's for this case to ever become a big deal but it is really shitty that as far as I can tell all 40mm rounds are considered to be Low Explosives and can not be owned unless you have a explosive licence. All that "support" from the ATF man, but he took your rounds anyway. 
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Posted: 8/6/2015 3:46:37 PM EDT
[#9]
WTF?
This seems like a back-door ploy carried out by minions. The dems used the IRS to get what they wanted, with no repercussions. Looks like they are trying to nibble away at what isn't mainstream. I got into 37mm late. Missed the birdbombs. Really glad I didn't get a 40mm or register the 37mm as a DD. How the F&%! are CHALK rounds now explosive? This looks like a little nibble of our rights by the ATF per the Dems order. Mainstream news will say "military grade grenades now out of the hands of the public!" "grenades bought on-line with no ID!" 
WTF?!?!?! I'm waiting for Grog to chime in on this; his board is THE place for 37mm/40mm. This is going to kill the hobby. I love my country and post this not as disrespect, but as a symbol of our nation in distress: 
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Posted: 8/6/2015 3:53:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WTF? This seems like a back-door ploy carried out by minions. The dems used the IRS to get what they wanted, with no repercussions. Looks like they are trying to nibble away at what isn't mainstream. I got into 37mm late. Missed the birdbombs. Really glad I didn't get a 40mm or register the 37mm as a DD. How the F&%! are CHALK rounds now explosive? This looks like a little nibble of our rights by the ATF per the Dems order. Mainstream news will say "military grade grenades now out of the hands of the public!" "grenades bought on-line with no ID!"
WTF?!?!?! I'm waiting for Grog to chime in on this; his board is THE place for 37mm/40mm. This is going to kill the hobby. I love my country and post this not as disrespect, but as a symbol of our nation in distress: http://api.ning.com/files/8kPvpl8sS0wl4mdXAHvK7LeryBTIfT5IfA8ENPUh8Eb10ELFKcPjs-SLWrmPeGXiV1xRAiRlnmeTofOBst8jTa0z6QVBlnZm/Flagupsidedown.png I keep hoping they bite off too much and get slapped down hard, but I'm not optimistic. Kind of glad funds kept me from registering my 37mm as a DD at this point. It wouldn't be any fun if you can't shoot it. |
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Posted: 8/7/2015 5:24:15 PM EDT
[#11]
In for the ride.
@Hard_Rock, I'll stop lurking. |
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Posted: 8/7/2015 6:27:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Forgive me, but can somebody IM me a link to GROG's forum? A google search returns various possible places mentioning 37/40mm in the snippets below the links.
Thanks, Matt |
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Posted: 8/7/2015 7:35:08 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Forgive me, but can somebody IM me a link to GROG's forum? A google search returns various possible places mentioning 37/40mm in the snippets below the links. Thanks, Matt http://www.freewebs.com/grog/ |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 10:00:27 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WTF? This seems like a back-door ploy carried out by minions. The dems used the IRS to get what they wanted, with no repercussions. Looks like they are trying to nibble away at what isn't mainstream. I got into 37mm late. Missed the birdbombs. Really glad I didn't get a 40mm or register the 37mm as a DD. How the F&%! are CHALK rounds now explosive? This looks like a little nibble of our rights by the ATF per the Dems order. Mainstream news will say "military grade grenades now out of the hands of the public!" "grenades bought on-line with no ID!"
WTF?!?!?! I'm waiting for Grog to chime in on this; his board is THE place for 37mm/40mm. This is going to kill the hobby. I love my country and post this not as disrespect, but as a symbol of our nation in distress: http://api.ning.com/files/8kPvpl8sS0wl4mdXAHvK7LeryBTIfT5IfA8ENPUh8Eb10ELFKcPjs-SLWrmPeGXiV1xRAiRlnmeTofOBst8jTa0z6QVBlnZm/Flagupsidedown.png http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_21/448778_Heads_up_to_those_with_40mm_ammo_.html&page=2 Grog did make some comments over on the DD forum. Appears that as he said "The sky is not falling" and from what i understand the ATF is NOT taking chalk or any other rounds. They are simply going after Flare and Smoke rounds and it is not because of their explosive nature but because of the way they were obtained and sold without permission. Which at first is great news, we dont need to panic, but at the same time this doesnt match the ATF letter nor does some of the claims (assuming they are true) of ATF agents taking chalk rounds. As usual i dont think the ATF even knows what they are doing. |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 10:23:30 AM EDT
[#15]
Thanks for pointing out Grog's post. It's good we have people like that here to clarify situations; I can't understand ATF determination letters half the time. I feel bad for the guys who invested in those 40mm round. That's big $$$ to me. |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 4:21:25 PM EDT
[#16]
I just got off the phone with someone that claims he had ATF come out to confiscate a couple rounds. He said he had the Sheriff there waiting. If the ATF was going to press to confiscate the rounds, he was filing charges of theft. The ATF and the Sheriff spoke for a few moments and the ATF left without the rounds. Sheriff cited confiscation without compensation and told the ATF that civil asset forfeiture under RICO could not apply. He was prepared to make the arrest. ATF backed down. At this time, I only have the word of this guy and I do not have the details I need. I don't know if he was BSing me or not but he said he and his sheriff have been watching this thread. To that end, if the Sheriff in this story would, please contact me to confirm this or clarify information. Not that I don't believe the guy but ATF knows I'm involved in fighting this and I wouldn't put anything past them including giving out false information.
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Posted: 8/11/2015 5:31:38 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just got off the phone with someone that claims he had ATF come out to confiscate a couple rounds. He said he had the Sheriff there waiting. If the ATF was going to press to confiscate the rounds, he was filing charges of theft. The ATF and the Sheriff spoke for a few moments and the ATF left without the rounds. Sheriff cited confiscation without compensation and told the ATF that civil asset forfeiture under RICO could not apply. He was prepared to make the arrest. ATF backed down. At this time, I only have the word of this guy and I do not have the details I need. I don't know if he was BSing me or not but he said he and his sheriff have been watching this thread. To that end, if the Sheriff in this story would, please contact me to confirm this or clarify information. Not that I don't believe the guy but ATF knows I'm involved in fighting this and I wouldn't put anything past them including giving out false information. Huh. If true, I'd be worried about a raid in this guy's case. |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 5:39:34 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Huh. If true, I'd be worried about a raid in this guy's case. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I just got off the phone with someone that claims he had ATF come out to confiscate a couple rounds. He said he had the Sheriff there waiting. If the ATF was going to press to confiscate the rounds, he was filing charges of theft. The ATF and the Sheriff spoke for a few moments and the ATF left without the rounds. Sheriff cited confiscation without compensation and told the ATF that civil asset forfeiture under RICO could not apply. He was prepared to make the arrest. ATF backed down. At this time, I only have the word of this guy and I do not have the details I need. I don't know if he was BSing me or not but he said he and his sheriff have been watching this thread. To that end, if the Sheriff in this story would, please contact me to confirm this or clarify information. Not that I don't believe the guy but ATF knows I'm involved in fighting this and I wouldn't put anything past them including giving out false information. Huh. If true, I'd be worried about a raid in this guy's case. the more I think about it, the more I think it's not. Things just don't seem to add up.
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Posted: 8/12/2015 8:12:11 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the more I think about it, the more I think it's not. Things just don't seem to add up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just got off the phone with someone that claims he had ATF come out to confiscate a couple rounds. He said he had the Sheriff there waiting. If the ATF was going to press to confiscate the rounds, he was filing charges of theft. The ATF and the Sheriff spoke for a few moments and the ATF left without the rounds. Sheriff cited confiscation without compensation and told the ATF that civil asset forfeiture under RICO could not apply. He was prepared to make the arrest. ATF backed down. At this time, I only have the word of this guy and I do not have the details I need. I don't know if he was BSing me or not but he said he and his sheriff have been watching this thread. To that end, if the Sheriff in this story would, please contact me to confirm this or clarify information. Not that I don't believe the guy but ATF knows I'm involved in fighting this and I wouldn't put anything past them including giving out false information. Huh. If true, I'd be worried about a raid in this guy's case. the more I think about it, the more I think it's not. Things just don't seem to add up. I wouldn't think the ATF would back down to a local sheriff but would be great if it were true. |
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Posted: 8/12/2015 8:25:23 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wouldn't think the ATF would back down to a local sheriff but would be great if it were true. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just got off the phone with someone that claims he had ATF come out to confiscate a couple rounds. He said he had the Sheriff there waiting. If the ATF was going to press to confiscate the rounds, he was filing charges of theft. The ATF and the Sheriff spoke for a few moments and the ATF left without the rounds. Sheriff cited confiscation without compensation and told the ATF that civil asset forfeiture under RICO could not apply. He was prepared to make the arrest. ATF backed down. At this time, I only have the word of this guy and I do not have the details I need. I don't know if he was BSing me or not but he said he and his sheriff have been watching this thread. To that end, if the Sheriff in this story would, please contact me to confirm this or clarify information. Not that I don't believe the guy but ATF knows I'm involved in fighting this and I wouldn't put anything past them including giving out false information. Huh. If true, I'd be worried about a raid in this guy's case. the more I think about it, the more I think it's not. Things just don't seem to add up. I wouldn't think the ATF would back down to a local sheriff but would be great if it were true. It happens. The Sheriff does have the power to arrest them. It wouldn't be the first time Fed agents attempting to enforce bad law were thrown behind bars by a sheriff. |
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Posted: 8/23/2015 10:16:31 PM EDT
[#21]
any updates?
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Posted: 8/23/2015 10:58:06 PM EDT
[#22]
Updates
??? |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 5:19:14 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It happens. The Sheriff does have the power to arrest them. It wouldn't be the first time Fed agents attempting to enforce bad law were thrown behind bars by a sheriff. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just got off the phone with someone that claims he had ATF come out to confiscate a couple rounds. He said he had the Sheriff there waiting. If the ATF was going to press to confiscate the rounds, he was filing charges of theft. The ATF and the Sheriff spoke for a few moments and the ATF left without the rounds. Sheriff cited confiscation without compensation and told the ATF that civil asset forfeiture under RICO could not apply. He was prepared to make the arrest. ATF backed down. At this time, I only have the word of this guy and I do not have the details I need. I don't know if he was BSing me or not but he said he and his sheriff have been watching this thread. To that end, if the Sheriff in this story would, please contact me to confirm this or clarify information. Not that I don't believe the guy but ATF knows I'm involved in fighting this and I wouldn't put anything past them including giving out false information. Huh. If true, I'd be worried about a raid in this guy's case. the more I think about it, the more I think it's not. Things just don't seem to add up. I wouldn't think the ATF would back down to a local sheriff but would be great if it were true. It happens. The Sheriff does have the power to arrest them. It wouldn't be the first time Fed agents attempting to enforce bad law were thrown behind bars by a sheriff. If it pans out to be true, I would like to be one of the first to send this Sheriff a case of beer and a sincere thank you. He needs to be made famous for his patriotism so others may hopefully follow suit. The simple fact is if more like him stepped forward, we could easily nullify the FEDs power and over reach in short order. Not one of them is going to come to a place with a Sheriff like that and mess with anyone... Im not a DD guy but having read what happened, the first thing I would have done is dial 911 and ask to have local PD get there ASAP. My next call would be to the local news outlets... |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 7:56:24 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It happens. The Sheriff does have the power to arrest them. It wouldn't be the first time Fed agents attempting to enforce bad law were thrown behind bars by a sheriff. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I wouldn't think the ATF would back down to a local sheriff but would be great if it were true. It happens. The Sheriff does have the power to arrest them. It wouldn't be the first time Fed agents attempting to enforce bad law were thrown behind bars by a sheriff. Would that not be the greatest 'COPS' episode ever! |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 8:00:52 PM EDT
[#25]
Subscribing to see what comes of this....
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Posted: 9/1/2015 8:01:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BTW, how does one technically "surrender under protest." I get that it gives you subsequent legal standing, but how do you do it and establish that you did it thus rather than merely surrendering it w/o protest? You send a certified letter to the ATF or have the guy coming to collect sign something or you take a video of you handing it to the guy and saying "I surrender this under protest..." Seems similar to "not consenting" to a search while not resesisting said search. Maybe you can find that info here? https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2015/08/gun-trust-and-foreiture-of-weapons-under-protest.html |
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Posted: 9/2/2015 6:28:41 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe you can find that info here? https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2015/08/gun-trust-and-foreiture-of-weapons-under-protest.html Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
BTW, how does one technically "surrender under protest." I get that it gives you subsequent legal standing, but how do you do it and establish that you did it thus rather than merely surrendering it w/o protest? You send a certified letter to the ATF or have the guy coming to collect sign something or you take a video of you handing it to the guy and saying "I surrender this under protest..." Seems similar to "not consenting" to a search while not resesisting said search. Maybe you can find that info here? https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2015/08/gun-trust-and-foreiture-of-weapons-under-protest.html I read this and watched the vid. It explains that there is a third option, the option to surrender under protest. But it doesn't explain exactly how you do it. |
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Posted: 9/2/2015 9:11:39 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I read this and watched the vid. It explains that there is a third option, the option to surrender under protest. But it doesn't explain exactly how you do it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
BTW, how does one technically "surrender under protest." I get that it gives you subsequent legal standing, but how do you do it and establish that you did it thus rather than merely surrendering it w/o protest? You send a certified letter to the ATF or have the guy coming to collect sign something or you take a video of you handing it to the guy and saying "I surrender this under protest..." Seems similar to "not consenting" to a search while not resesisting said search. Maybe you can find that info here? https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2015/08/gun-trust-and-foreiture-of-weapons-under-protest.html I read this and watched the vid. It explains that there is a third option, the option to surrender under protest. But it doesn't explain exactly how you do it. what we did in Watson was to type up a surrender under protest and request the agent to sign it. the agent of course refused to sign it. it doesn't really matter. give it to him any way. the next thing to do is to sign the receipt the agent will give you and write "under protest" when you sign it. |
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Posted: 9/2/2015 12:02:51 PM EDT
[#29]
Some general advice from a former police officer (retired): Don't act like a smart-ass or give the ATF a hard time like some here suggest. I can guarantee that response won't result in a good outcome. If anyone is concerned that they may have inadvertently broken the law, call a knowledgeable criminal lawyer and/or the NRA for advice BEFORE talking to ATF.
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Posted: 9/3/2015 9:06:29 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some general advice from a former police officer (retired): Don't act like a smart-ass or give the ATF a hard time like some here suggest. I can guarantee that response won't result in a good outcome. If anyone is concerned that they may have inadvertently broken the law, call a knowledgeable criminal lawyer and/or the NRA for advice BEFORE talking to ATF. Better yet, tell them to talk to your lawyer. This is the problem with the current state of LE in the US, especially on the federal level, these agents know damn well what they're doing is BS but how many have have the spine to tell their bosses I'm not doing that. Or at the least tell their bosses we can't do that without a warrant. |
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Posted: 9/5/2015 8:57:14 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Better yet, tell them to talk to your lawyer. This is the problem with the current state of LE in the US, especially on the federal level, these agents know damn well what they're doing is BS but how many have have the spine to tell their bosses I'm not doing that. Or at the least tell their bosses we can't do that without a warrant. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Some general advice from a former police officer (retired): Don't act like a smart-ass or give the ATF a hard time like some here suggest. I can guarantee that response won't result in a good outcome. If anyone is concerned that they may have inadvertently broken the law, call a knowledgeable criminal lawyer and/or the NRA for advice BEFORE talking to ATF. Better yet, tell them to talk to your lawyer. This is the problem with the current state of LE in the US, especially on the federal level, these agents know damn well what they're doing is BS but how many have have the spine to tell their bosses I'm not doing that. Or at the least tell their bosses we can't do that without a warrant. That's how tyranny works. They're only following orders. |
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