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Posted: 7/8/2015 5:05:56 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-805-bren-ps1-pistol/ Several on Gunbroker right now and KY gun co has them on their website. $1676 and OOS So $200 stamp + whatever sort of conversion kit you need. Even less competitive now that the ARX got a price reduction. I wouldn't mind fondling one though. |
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Posted: 7/8/2015 6:09:28 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: $1676 and OOS So $200 stamp + whatever sort of conversion kit you need. Even less competitive now that the ARX got a price reduction. I wouldn't mind fondling one though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-805-bren-ps1-pistol/ Several on Gunbroker right now and KY gun co has them on their website. $1676 and OOS So $200 stamp + whatever sort of conversion kit you need. Even less competitive now that the ARX got a price reduction. I wouldn't mind fondling one though. Just like the Evo, its worthless if its not an SBR. Thats fine by me, and I appreciate companies releasing un-neutered "pistols" but I cant see 2 grand for that thing after its said and done. As much as I like CZ, I cant imagine this thing being worth almost the price of a SCAR. Get the price down to 1200 and Im in. |
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Posted: 7/8/2015 6:21:12 PM EDT
[#3]
Geissele going to do a trigger for these as well?
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Posted: 7/8/2015 9:01:31 PM EDT
[#4]
I may need this in my life.
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Posted: 7/9/2015 1:18:12 AM EDT
[#5]
As someone who has shot this weapon in SA , 2RB and FA I would recommend against it But I'm sure you'll still buy one based on the hype |
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Posted: 7/9/2015 2:18:57 AM EDT
[#6]
I'm the biggest CZ fan evar, but i can't bite at that price point. Still rather have a Radom MSBS.
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Posted: 7/9/2015 7:03:42 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As someone who has shot this weapon in SA , 2RB and FA I would recommend against it But I'm sure you'll still buy one based on the hype |
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Posted: 7/9/2015 7:54:25 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-805-bren-ps1-pistol/ Several on Gunbroker right now and KY gun co has them on their website. I would so love to have one of those. Not going to be in my immediate financial future though. |
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Posted: 7/9/2015 11:50:29 AM EDT
[#9]
Too closely priced to a SCAR with no stock - especially with CZ's iffy quality control and customer service. Pass.
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Posted: 7/9/2015 11:53:49 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Too closely priced to a SCAR with no stock - especially with CZ's iffy quality control and customer service. Pass. I do have a feeling these won't be like the Skorpions...but still. That's a lot of fucking money, especially for a pistol. |
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Posted: 7/9/2015 2:41:53 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Too closely priced to a SCAR with no stock - especially with CZ's iffy quality control and customer service. Pass. Looking online, SCAR's are around $600 more street price, but the first CZ's will probably go for close to retail. I think the CZ would be cool to SBR, but since the ATF isn't approving form 1's in WA anymore, I have no use for a 5.56 pistol. |
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Posted: 7/9/2015 4:53:01 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I do have a feeling these won't be like the Skorpions...but still. That's a lot of fucking money, especially for a pistol. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Too closely priced to a SCAR with no stock - especially with CZ's iffy quality control and customer service. Pass. I do have a feeling these won't be like the Skorpions...but still. That's a lot of fucking money, especially for a pistol. Maybe if they sold the pistol with a "rebate" for all the stock conversion components for an SBR. |
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Posted: 7/9/2015 5:27:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looking online, SCAR's are around $600 more street price, but the first CZ's will probably go for close to retail. I think the CZ would be cool to SBR, but since the ATF isn't approving form 1's in WA anymore, I have no use for a 5.56 pistol. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Too closely priced to a SCAR with no stock - especially with CZ's iffy quality control and customer service. Pass. Looking online, SCAR's are around $600 more street price, but the first CZ's will probably go for close to retail. I think the CZ would be cool to SBR, but since the ATF isn't approving form 1's in WA anymore, I have no use for a 5.56 pistol. Why Not?? NM just hit the WAHTF. You guys are fuked. However It reads like one cannot be filed as a F1 BUT..................... You can buy an already approved unit, transferred as a F4 (SBR). |
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Posted: 7/9/2015 5:27:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Too closely priced to a SCAR with no stock - especially with CZ's iffy quality control and customer service. Pass. What are you referencing? Also, what quality control issues? Ive seen some off-center sight aperture issues and some mag cracking. CZ has never made their own pistol mags, so I dont know if they are making their own Skorpion mags. Frankly, I think its a hell of a stretch to refer to their quality control as "iffy". |
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Posted: 7/9/2015 6:26:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ive been dealing with CZ USA for years and have never had a problem with customer service. In fact, Ive never heard of anyone having a problem with the customer service at all. What are you referencing? Also, what quality control issues? Early P-07 frame swell. Other than that, can't think of anything Ive seen some off-center sight aperture issues and some mag cracking. CZ has never made their own pistol mags, so I dont know if they are making their own Skorpion mags. Frankly, I think its a hell of a stretch to refer to their quality control as "iffy". Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Too closely priced to a SCAR with no stock - especially with CZ's iffy quality control and customer service. Pass. What are you referencing? Also, what quality control issues? Early P-07 frame swell. Other than that, can't think of anything Ive seen some off-center sight aperture issues and some mag cracking. CZ has never made their own pistol mags, so I dont know if they are making their own Skorpion mags. Frankly, I think its a hell of a stretch to refer to their quality control as "iffy". |
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Posted: 7/10/2015 3:16:13 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Care to enlighten us? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
As someone who has shot this weapon in SA , 2RB and FA I would recommend against it But I'm sure you'll still buy one based on the hype As someone who has also shot this weapon with a 16 in barrel in SA, 2RB and FA I would also like you to enlighten us. I thought the weapon was suberb, but hated the folding adjustable stock. IF i can figure out how to swing on of these pistols $$ wise, I will SBR it with the folding non-adjustable stock. ETA: $1600 is a much better price vs the $1800 I had seen earlier this week... if it's around $1400-1500 after the initial hype dies down I'll have trouble saying no |
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Posted: 7/10/2015 10:45:30 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As someone who has also shot this weapon with a 16 in barrel in SA, 2RB and FA I would also like you to enlighten us. I thought the weapon was suberb, but hated the folding adjustable stock. IF i can figure out how to swing on of these pistols $$ wise, I will SBR it with the folding non-adjustable stock. ETA: $1600 is a much better price vs the $1800 I had seen earlier this week... if it's around $1400-1500 after the initial hype dies down I'll have trouble saying no Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
As someone who has shot this weapon in SA , 2RB and FA I would recommend against it But I'm sure you'll still buy one based on the hype As someone who has also shot this weapon with a 16 in barrel in SA, 2RB and FA I would also like you to enlighten us. I thought the weapon was suberb, but hated the folding adjustable stock. IF i can figure out how to swing on of these pistols $$ wise, I will SBR it with the folding non-adjustable stock. ETA: $1600 is a much better price vs the $1800 I had seen earlier this week... if it's around $1400-1500 after the initial hype dies down I'll have trouble saying no Stock was cheap and broke. The recoil was horrible for a 223 when compared to an AR or SCAR Save the money and buy a SCAR or nice AR |
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Posted: 7/10/2015 10:47:07 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Stock was cheap and broke. The recoil was horrible for a 223 when compared to an AR or SCAR Save the money and buy a SCAR or nice AR Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
As someone who has shot this weapon in SA , 2RB and FA I would recommend against it But I'm sure you'll still buy one based on the hype As someone who has also shot this weapon with a 16 in barrel in SA, 2RB and FA I would also like you to enlighten us. I thought the weapon was suberb, but hated the folding adjustable stock. IF i can figure out how to swing on of these pistols $$ wise, I will SBR it with the folding non-adjustable stock. ETA: $1600 is a much better price vs the $1800 I had seen earlier this week... if it's around $1400-1500 after the initial hype dies down I'll have trouble saying no Stock was cheap and broke. The recoil was horrible for a 223 when compared to an AR or SCAR Save the money and buy a SCAR or nice AR Are you referring to the 16" or the 11"? I wonder what causes that. |
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Posted: 7/10/2015 3:19:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Some piston driven guns have sharper recoil impulses.
Also, the amount of travel before the bolt carrier bottoms out is a factor in regards to perceived felt recoil. |
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Posted: 7/10/2015 9:39:11 PM EDT
[#20]
Call me when the rifle starts shipping!
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Posted: 7/11/2015 2:40:45 PM EDT
[#21]
I own a factory post sample Bren 805 and it's a smooth shooting weapon. It hasn't got abused on the range because we only have one and we are waiting for the second unit to arrive. That being said, the only problem we've had with our Bren 805 is the roll pin holding the selector lever has walked out twice. It somehow caused the weapon to go into safe while firing locked the hammer in "up" position causing the weapon to lock up. As soon as we pulled the lower, the hammers were able to reset and the weapon functioned properly.
V/R Ron 
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Posted: 7/11/2015 5:00:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Stock was cheap and broke. The recoil was horrible for a 223 when compared to an AR or SCAR Save the money and buy a SCAR or nice AR Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
As someone who has shot this weapon in SA , 2RB and FA I would recommend against it But I'm sure you'll still buy one based on the hype As someone who has also shot this weapon with a 16 in barrel in SA, 2RB and FA I would also like you to enlighten us. I thought the weapon was suberb, but hated the folding adjustable stock. IF i can figure out how to swing on of these pistols $$ wise, I will SBR it with the folding non-adjustable stock. ETA: $1600 is a much better price vs the $1800 I had seen earlier this week... if it's around $1400-1500 after the initial hype dies down I'll have trouble saying no Stock was cheap and broke. The recoil was horrible for a 223 when compared to an AR or SCAR Save the money and buy a SCAR or nice AR The folding adjustable stock or the non-adjustable folding stock? If it was the adjustable folding then that really doesn't bother me (see my comment above). At least on the 16 inch version I thought the recoil was less than the scorpion, and certainly less than an HK53, and also less recoil than my 9MM AR SBR. The the 223 scar was in the $1600-1800 price, they would sell more, but I've never seen a new scar 16 less than $2k. Based on the CZ Scorpion's 922r kit price, I will probably be able to get the 805 pistol + tax stamp + a similar 922r stock kit for less than a new scar 16. |
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Posted: 7/11/2015 9:05:28 PM EDT
[#23]
just for those that are wondering as well, the stock trigger on the semi-auto 805 is pretty great. substantially better than just about any other factory trigger on a semi auto I have felt before.
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Posted: 7/12/2015 5:19:39 PM EDT
[#24]
The Bren 805 has my attention.
Anybody heard when the 16" carbine version is coming to the US Market? |
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Posted: 7/12/2015 8:42:52 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I own a factory post sample Bren 805 and it's a smooth shooting weapon. It hasn't got abused on the range because we only have one and we are waiting for the second unit to arrive. That being said, the only problem we've had with our Bren 805 is the roll pin holding the selector lever has walked out twice. It somehow caused the weapon to go into safe while firing locked the hammer in "up" position causing the weapon to lock up. As soon as we pulled the lower, the hammers were able to reset and the weapon functioned properly. V/R Ron http://i.imgur.com/5wRgZBG.jpg Is that the factory CZ-805 Bren stock? It looks like the Gun Expert VZ stock. |
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Posted: 7/13/2015 1:19:58 AM EDT
[#26]
Piston gun shave more impulse but the scar has a piston and not bad recoil
Neither did my piston ARs Hype I tell you I'll stick with ARs or scar but please feel free to fall for the hype like most others (ie. FS2000, ACR, etc..._ |
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Posted: 7/13/2015 4:56:08 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Piston gun shave more impulse but the scar has a piston and not bad recoil Neither did my piston ARs Hype I tell you I'll stick with ARs or scar but please feel free to fall for the hype like most others (ie. FS2000, ACR, etc..._ The question still stands: please elaborate on your feelings about the rifle. If it's shit, please post why so that we may gain some insight. Was the recoil impulse the only detriment? Were there other issues? |
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Posted: 7/13/2015 5:19:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The question still stands: please elaborate on your feelings about the rifle. If it's shit, please post why so that we may gain some insight. Was the recoil impulse the only detriment? Were there other issues? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Piston gun shave more impulse but the scar has a piston and not bad recoil Neither did my piston ARs Hype I tell you I'll stick with ARs or scar but please feel free to fall for the hype like most others (ie. FS2000, ACR, etc..._ The question still stands: please elaborate on your feelings about the rifle. If it's shit, please post why so that we may gain some insight. Was the recoil impulse the only detriment? Were there other issues? Dont just say "hype". I love the SCAR and it was the most hyped gun I can honestly recall. Otherwise, save the GD bullshit for GD. |
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Posted: 7/13/2015 8:16:57 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
$1676 and OOS So $200 stamp + whatever sort of conversion kit you need. Even less competitive now that the ARX got a price reduction. I wouldn't mind fondling one though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-805-bren-ps1-pistol/ Several on Gunbroker right now and KY gun co has them on their website. $1676 and OOS So $200 stamp + whatever sort of conversion kit you need. Even less competitive now that the ARX got a price reduction. I wouldn't mind fondling one though. In stock at KY Gun Co for $1905 now. I, for one never expected the 805 to be competitively priced, especially against the Beretta. CZ is too low volume, and the "importing as a pistol" situation puts them at a disadvantage. But it will still be interesting to see where the price settles on 805s. They are set to beat Bushmaster ACRs if the price drops any. On the other hand, if the 805 performs well, people will be willing to pay the premium for it, and there are a lot of CZ fans that will buy it just for the name. |
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Posted: 7/14/2015 12:31:47 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Exactly. Dont just say "hype". I love the SCAR and it was the most hyped gun I can honestly recall. Otherwise, save the GD bullshit for GD. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Piston gun shave more impulse but the scar has a piston and not bad recoil Neither did my piston ARs Hype I tell you I'll stick with ARs or scar but please feel free to fall for the hype like most others (ie. FS2000, ACR, etc..._ The question still stands: please elaborate on your feelings about the rifle. If it's shit, please post why so that we may gain some insight. Was the recoil impulse the only detriment? Were there other issues? Dont just say "hype". I love the SCAR and it was the most hyped gun I can honestly recall. Otherwise, save the GD bullshit for GD. I can tell you from our experience that we have a SCAR-L that has more rounds through it than most can only dream of in a life time and other than barrels being replaced (key-holing after so many rounds), we have lost a charging handle, hammer spring and ONE bolt. I didn't even care for the SCAR prior to opening the range but that platform has made me a believer. V/R Ron |
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Posted: 7/14/2015 1:42:26 PM EDT
[#31]
Anyone know when / if the rifle version of this is going to come out?
Looks awesome but I really just want the rifle. |
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Posted: 7/14/2015 1:58:20 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone know when / if the rifle version of this is going to come out? Looks awesome but I really just want the rifle. CZ has been quiet on that. Seems unlikely unless they get a lot of parts manufacturing going here. |
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Posted: 7/14/2015 2:45:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
CZ has been quiet on that. Seems unlikely unless they get a lot of parts manufacturing going here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Anyone know when / if the rifle version of this is going to come out? Looks awesome but I really just want the rifle. CZ has been quiet on that. Seems unlikely unless they get a lot of parts manufacturing going here. would only require 3 parts to be 922R compliant if you are using US magazines so should be fairly simple to get done. plus making a US barrel for one shouldn't be terribly difficult if someone were inclined to do so. |
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Posted: 7/14/2015 5:46:34 PM EDT
[#34]
What would be the most sensible compliance parts for CZ to build here?
Buttstock - you could sell it to the people who are SBR ing the pistol version. Trigger - many people change out factory triggers anyway Muzzle device - according to wiki the rifle version has a 14 inch barrel so a longish muzzle device could be used to get it to NFA compliance anyway |
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Posted: 7/14/2015 7:13:10 PM EDT
[#35]
I've been really excited about this gun, but it seems CZ has dropped the ball on this one. There's been absolutely no hype about the gun whatsoever and they've been quiet on any stocks for sbr conversion. They've been topnotch on the Scorpion, besides being slow to get the stock kit to market. I don't know why they haven't done more for this rifle. I really don't understand why companies make such basic mistakes responding to the market-- Sig 550 series, Remington/Bushmaster ACR, etc.
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Posted: 7/15/2015 11:31:58 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been really excited about this gun, but it seems CZ has dropped the ball on this one. There's been absolutely no hype about the gun whatsoever and they've been quiet on any stocks for sbr conversion. They've been topnotch on the Scorpion, besides being slow to get the stock kit to market. I don't know why they haven't done more for this rifle. I really don't understand why companies make such basic mistakes responding to the market-- Sig 550 series, Remington/Bushmaster ACR, etc. I'll partially disagree - they overhyped the Scorpion and have been slow on parts so maybe they wanted to under promise and over deliver with this... |
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Posted: 7/15/2015 5:19:50 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What would be the most sensible compliance parts for CZ to build here? Buttstock - you could sell it to the people who are SBR ing the pistol version. Trigger - many people change out factory triggers anyway Muzzle device - according to wiki the rifle version has a 14 inch barrel so a longish muzzle device could be used to get it to NFA compliance anyway doesn't look like a rifle conversion will be too hard, someone already finished one https://instagram.com/p/5KkmKzQszi/?taken-by=czusafirearms |
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Posted: 7/15/2015 6:16:05 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
doesn't look like a rifle conversion will be too hard, someone already finished one https://instagram.com/p/5KkmKzQszi/?taken-by=czusafirearms Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What would be the most sensible compliance parts for CZ to build here? Buttstock - you could sell it to the people who are SBR ing the pistol version. Trigger - many people change out factory triggers anyway Muzzle device - according to wiki the rifle version has a 14 inch barrel so a longish muzzle device could be used to get it to NFA compliance anyway doesn't look like a rifle conversion will be too hard, someone already finished one https://instagram.com/p/5KkmKzQszi/?taken-by=czusafirearms According to the comments that was made by one of the in house gunsmiths at CZ USA. I'm betting it was built as a prototype and they will be available for sale in that config eventually. |
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Posted: 7/15/2015 9:01:27 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll partially disagree - they overhyped the Scorpion and have been slow on parts so maybe they wanted to under promise and over deliver with this... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've been really excited about this gun, but it seems CZ has dropped the ball on this one. There's been absolutely no hype about the gun whatsoever and they've been quiet on any stocks for sbr conversion. They've been topnotch on the Scorpion, besides being slow to get the stock kit to market. I don't know why they haven't done more for this rifle. I really don't understand why companies make such basic mistakes responding to the market-- Sig 550 series, Remington/Bushmaster ACR, etc. I'll partially disagree - they overhyped the Scorpion and have been slow on parts so maybe they wanted to under promise and over deliver with this... Slow? I'd say they've been extremely responsive. |
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Posted: 7/15/2015 9:59:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
According to the comments that was made by one of the in house gunsmiths at CZ USA. I'm betting it was built as a prototype and they will be available for sale in that config eventually. The CZ reps said on instagram that they will likely release full size rifle configurations when they get 922(r) compliant parts made; they won't be making those parts for a few months at minimum. |
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Posted: 7/15/2015 10:06:30 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Slow? I'd say they've been extremely responsive. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
I've been really excited about this gun, but it seems CZ has dropped the ball on this one. There's been absolutely no hype about the gun whatsoever and they've been quiet on any stocks for sbr conversion. They've been topnotch on the Scorpion, besides being slow to get the stock kit to market. I don't know why they haven't done more for this rifle. I really don't understand why companies make such basic mistakes responding to the market-- Sig 550 series, Remington/Bushmaster ACR, etc. I'll partially disagree - they overhyped the Scorpion and have been slow on parts so maybe they wanted to under promise and over deliver with this... Slow? I'd say they've been extremely responsive. They've been extremely responsive on telling people the parts are coming and that's about it. As soon as they came up with the idea of importing the Scorpion and Bren in pistol configuration, they should have been getting parts made in order to convert them into rifles. Instead, they asked the ATF for approval of import, then they got imported, then they sold some guns, then they realized people wouldn't want to keep them as pistols so they asked the ATF to clarify 922r rules for SBRs, and finally, after all that was cleared up, they started making compliance parts. They should have foreseen that people would want to turn these guns into rifles. I'm glad they're making the effort. But again, it makes me wonder what kind of people work at these companies. Now the Bren will probably get dusty on gunstore shelves because people are in the dark about whether there will be stocks. I certainly won't fork over $1900 on it without being able to purchase the stock. |
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Posted: 7/15/2015 11:10:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They've been extremely responsive on telling people the parts are coming and that's about it. As soon as they came up with the idea of importing the Scorpion and Bren in pistol configuration, they should have been getting parts made in order to convert them into rifles. Instead, they asked the ATF for approval of import, then they got imported, then they sold some guns, then they realized people wouldn't want to keep them as pistols so they asked the ATF to clarify 922r rules for SBRs, and finally, after all that was cleared up, they started making compliance parts. They should have foreseen that people would want to turn these guns into rifles. I'm glad they're making the effort. But again, it makes me wonder what kind of people work at these companies. Now the Bren will probably get dusty on gunstore shelves because people are in the dark about whether there will be stocks. I certainly won't fork over $1900 on it without being able to purchase the stock. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've been really excited about this gun, but it seems CZ has dropped the ball on this one. There's been absolutely no hype about the gun whatsoever and they've been quiet on any stocks for sbr conversion. They've been topnotch on the Scorpion, besides being slow to get the stock kit to market. I don't know why they haven't done more for this rifle. I really don't understand why companies make such basic mistakes responding to the market-- Sig 550 series, Remington/Bushmaster ACR, etc. I'll partially disagree - they overhyped the Scorpion and have been slow on parts so maybe they wanted to under promise and over deliver with this... Slow? I'd say they've been extremely responsive. They've been extremely responsive on telling people the parts are coming and that's about it. As soon as they came up with the idea of importing the Scorpion and Bren in pistol configuration, they should have been getting parts made in order to convert them into rifles. Instead, they asked the ATF for approval of import, then they got imported, then they sold some guns, then they realized people wouldn't want to keep them as pistols so they asked the ATF to clarify 922r rules for SBRs, and finally, after all that was cleared up, they started making compliance parts. They should have foreseen that people would want to turn these guns into rifles. I'm glad they're making the effort. But again, it makes me wonder what kind of people work at these companies. Now the Bren will probably get dusty on gunstore shelves because people are in the dark about whether there will be stocks. I certainly won't fork over $1900 on it without being able to purchase the stock. They likely have been working since day one to bring the parts necessary to convert the scorpion and bren to rifles to the market. Given the misinformation and lack of clarification prior to the firearm being release on whether an SBR was subject to 922R or not it doesn't surprise me that they would have waited for clarification before placing any orders with US contractors to make parts when, had the ATF stated they were not subject to 922r, they could have simply brought the parts in from overseas. Now that we have clarification you need to also remember 1st they need to go through a bidding process to find the right contractor to produce the parts and then It's not like the contractor is going to tool up overnight to produce a product, any business worth its salt will already have most of it's machinery working on prior orders from other customer so it must either buy more equipment or wait until it's current orders are fulfilled. It takes a lot of money, time, testing and more money to bring to finalized product to market. they got clarification in what April? and their ETA is end of August? 4-5 months isn't really all that bad. I can't fault any company for looking after it's bottom line and wanting to bring a quality, legal, and profitable product to the market and given CZ has been expanding in the US when most major US gun companies have been running into financial issues due to mismanagement, it sounds like they know what they are doing from a business standpoint. But hey, I like capitalism and guns, and am in no particular hurry when it comes to 922R kits. it'll get here when it gets here and I have plenty of other guns to shoot in the mean-time, but I will be crossing me fingers that they are released before the zombie outbreak 
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Posted: 7/16/2015 3:45:55 PM EDT
[#43]
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They likely have been working since day one to bring the parts necessary to convert the scorpion and bren to rifles to the market. Given the misinformation and lack of clarification prior to the firearm being release on whether an SBR was subject to 922R or not it doesn't surprise me that they would have waited for clarification before placing any orders with US contractors to make parts when, had the ATF stated they were not subject to 922r, they could have simply brought the parts in from overseas. Now that we have clarification you need to also remember 1st they need to go through a bidding process to find the right contractor to produce the parts and then It's not like the contractor is going to tool up overnight to produce a product, any business worth its salt will already have most of it's machinery working on prior orders from other customer so it must either buy more equipment or wait until it's current orders are fulfilled. It takes a lot of money, time, testing and more money to bring to finalized product to market. they got clarification in what April? and their ETA is end of August? 4-5 months isn't really all that bad. I can't fault any company for looking after it's bottom line and wanting to bring a quality, legal, and profitable product to the market and given CZ has been expanding in the US when most major US gun companies have been running into financial issues due to mismanagement, it sounds like they know what they are doing from a business standpoint. But hey, I like capitalism and guns, and am in no particular hurry when it comes to 922R kits. it'll get here when it gets here and I have plenty of other guns to shoot in the mean-time, but I will be crossing me fingers that they are released before the zombie outbreak Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've been really excited about this gun, but it seems CZ has dropped the ball on this one. There's been absolutely no hype about the gun whatsoever and they've been quiet on any stocks for sbr conversion. They've been topnotch on the Scorpion, besides being slow to get the stock kit to market. I don't know why they haven't done more for this rifle. I really don't understand why companies make such basic mistakes responding to the market-- Sig 550 series, Remington/Bushmaster ACR, etc. I'll partially disagree - they overhyped the Scorpion and have been slow on parts so maybe they wanted to under promise and over deliver with this... Slow? I'd say they've been extremely responsive. They've been extremely responsive on telling people the parts are coming and that's about it. As soon as they came up with the idea of importing the Scorpion and Bren in pistol configuration, they should have been getting parts made in order to convert them into rifles. Instead, they asked the ATF for approval of import, then they got imported, then they sold some guns, then they realized people wouldn't want to keep them as pistols so they asked the ATF to clarify 922r rules for SBRs, and finally, after all that was cleared up, they started making compliance parts. They should have foreseen that people would want to turn these guns into rifles. I'm glad they're making the effort. But again, it makes me wonder what kind of people work at these companies. Now the Bren will probably get dusty on gunstore shelves because people are in the dark about whether there will be stocks. I certainly won't fork over $1900 on it without being able to purchase the stock. They likely have been working since day one to bring the parts necessary to convert the scorpion and bren to rifles to the market. Given the misinformation and lack of clarification prior to the firearm being release on whether an SBR was subject to 922R or not it doesn't surprise me that they would have waited for clarification before placing any orders with US contractors to make parts when, had the ATF stated they were not subject to 922r, they could have simply brought the parts in from overseas. Now that we have clarification you need to also remember 1st they need to go through a bidding process to find the right contractor to produce the parts and then It's not like the contractor is going to tool up overnight to produce a product, any business worth its salt will already have most of it's machinery working on prior orders from other customer so it must either buy more equipment or wait until it's current orders are fulfilled. It takes a lot of money, time, testing and more money to bring to finalized product to market. they got clarification in what April? and their ETA is end of August? 4-5 months isn't really all that bad. I can't fault any company for looking after it's bottom line and wanting to bring a quality, legal, and profitable product to the market and given CZ has been expanding in the US when most major US gun companies have been running into financial issues due to mismanagement, it sounds like they know what they are doing from a business standpoint. But hey, I like capitalism and guns, and am in no particular hurry when it comes to 922R kits. it'll get here when it gets here and I have plenty of other guns to shoot in the mean-time, but I will be crossing me fingers that they are released before the zombie outbreak I hear what you're saying, but I still think they've dropped the ball some. A lot of these issues could've been hashed out before they even made the public aware that the guns were going to be released. Instead, you have people that are now frustrated because of the wait. It creates a bad image for the company. |
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Posted: 7/17/2015 12:51:00 AM EDT
[#44]
CZ really needs to up their game in the marketing department on this one.
I'd love to have a 805 but the price and the fact that it's only available in pistol config... pass for now. Get the carbine available and drop the price some and I'd be looking really hard at purchasing one. Right now there are way too many other guys that I'd rather drop $2K+ on that are coming out in the near future. |
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Posted: 7/17/2015 9:58:31 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: CZ really needs to up their game in the marketing department on this one. I'd love to have a 805 but the price and the fact that it's only available in pistol config... pass for now. Get the carbine available and drop the price some and I'd be looking really hard at purchasing one. Right now there are way too many other guys that I'd rather drop $2K+ on that are coming out in the near future. And if you don't like the pistol thing, man, blame the ATF. I don't remember seeing anything abotu "sporting purposes" in the constitution but maybe the ATF is reading like, the NIV version of it or something. |
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Posted: 7/17/2015 10:29:39 AM EDT
[#46]
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My guess is that every single one they import gets sold. They don't have the production capacity to turn this into "the next AR" or anything. Hell, I doubt they even have a quarter of what FN does. Increased marketing and visibility is going to result in market shortage. You could make these same arguments about the P-07/P-09. It's a fantastic gun with way less market share than it deserves from a technical standpoint but CZ-USA just isn't a big enough outfit to take on some of the other players. (IMHO) And if you don't like the pistol thing, man, blame the ATF. I don't remember seeing anything abotu "sporting purposes" in the constitution but maybe the ATF is reading like, the NIV version of it or something. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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CZ really needs to up their game in the marketing department on this one. I'd love to have a 805 but the price and the fact that it's only available in pistol config... pass for now. Get the carbine available and drop the price some and I'd be looking really hard at purchasing one. Right now there are way too many other guys that I'd rather drop $2K+ on that are coming out in the near future. And if you don't like the pistol thing, man, blame the ATF. I don't remember seeing anything abotu "sporting purposes" in the constitution but maybe the ATF is reading like, the NIV version of it or something. Oh I totally agree that they won't be the next big thing but I think they could easily carve out a good section of the market by just increasing their internet information presence. I haven't seen a single review on this gun yet despite it being available well below MSRP already. You don't want a gun to come to market with everyone asking WTF is this? Has anyone shot it? Reviews? 922r? Carbine version? A lot of unanswered questions means this gets pushed to the back burner when there are so many other toys with more readily accessible info. CZ has a good reputation from everything I have seen from their pistol products, leverage that into the semi auto rifle market! |
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Posted: 7/17/2015 11:37:00 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My guess is that every single one they import gets sold. They don't have the production capacity to turn this into "the next AR" or anything. Hell, I doubt they even have a quarter of what FN does. Increased marketing and visibility is going to result in market shortage. You could make these same arguments about the P-07/P-09. It's a fantastic gun with way less market share than it deserves from a technical standpoint but CZ-USA just isn't a big enough outfit to take on some of the other players. (IMHO) And if you don't like the pistol thing, man, blame the ATF. I don't remember seeing anything abotu "sporting purposes" in the constitution but maybe the ATF is reading like, the NIV version of it or something. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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CZ really needs to up their game in the marketing department on this one. I'd love to have a 805 but the price and the fact that it's only available in pistol config... pass for now. Get the carbine available and drop the price some and I'd be looking really hard at purchasing one. Right now there are way too many other guys that I'd rather drop $2K+ on that are coming out in the near future. And if you don't like the pistol thing, man, blame the ATF. I don't remember seeing anything abotu "sporting purposes" in the constitution but maybe the ATF is reading like, the NIV version of it or something. All this, and the fact that the US isn't the only market they sell to. We all tend to forget that. So we're contending with their limited production capacity, and all the other global markets that want their products. |
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Posted: 7/17/2015 12:48:50 PM EDT
[#48]
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My guess is that every single one they import gets sold. They don't have the production capacity to turn this into "the next AR" or anything. Hell, I doubt they even have a quarter of what FN does. Increased marketing and visibility is going to result in market shortage. You could make these same arguments about the P-07/P-09. It's a fantastic gun with way less market share than it deserves from a technical standpoint but CZ-USA just isn't a big enough outfit to take on some of the other players. (IMHO) And if you don't like the pistol thing, man, blame the ATF. I don't remember seeing anything abotu "sporting purposes" in the constitution but maybe the ATF is reading like, the NIV version of it or something. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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CZ really needs to up their game in the marketing department on this one. I'd love to have a 805 but the price and the fact that it's only available in pistol config... pass for now. Get the carbine available and drop the price some and I'd be looking really hard at purchasing one. Right now there are way too many other guys that I'd rather drop $2K+ on that are coming out in the near future. And if you don't like the pistol thing, man, blame the ATF. I don't remember seeing anything abotu "sporting purposes" in the constitution but maybe the ATF is reading like, the NIV version of it or something. I don't buy any of that for a minute. If they're a small company, then expand. There's certainly a bunch of people in this economy that need jobs. And yes, they could grab a huge market share if they made the effort. Look at IWI. IWI invested and hired. They released the Tavor in a timely fashion that has both Israeli and US made parts. On top of that, the Tavor had aftermarket parts right after its release. The Tavor now has a pretty big market share, considering what it is, and IWI is expanding with the Galil ACE line. I don't buy for a minute that CZ is just too small and can't keep up. |
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Posted: 7/17/2015 12:55:54 PM EDT
[#49]
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All this, and the fact that the US isn't the only market they sell to. We all tend to forget that. So we're contending with their limited production capacity, and all the other global markets that want their products. Honestly who buys more guns than the US civilian market? |
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Posted: 7/17/2015 1:12:11 PM EDT
[#50]
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Honestly who buys more guns than the US civilian market? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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All this, and the fact that the US isn't the only market they sell to. We all tend to forget that. So we're contending with their limited production capacity, and all the other global markets that want their products. Honestly who buys more guns than the US civilian market? Someone posted the figures at one point on the CZ forum. But its kinda surprising. |
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