Specifically the 10" mini and XCR-M in .308.   Thinking about getting into them, but want to know more about them first.  

Durability?
Worth the money?
Barrel change utility?
any issues?

Thanks!

I do not have either of those but I have one with a 16-inch barrel, I think of it as a switch-barrel, multi-caliber AK. The adjustable gas system is useful when shooting suppressed (it has a suppressor setting) and mine has never had a malfunction. It tends to fling brass very far.



Is it worth is is something I guess only you can answer, I got mine just to have something other than an AR and because it had some interesting features.

Yeah, one of my major considerations was shooting suppressed.  Thanks!

Had the mini pistol with quad rails that I was going to SBR. Robinson came out with the keymod rails and I decided the mini rail was too short anyway. If I had the money I would get the full size keymod upper with the 12" barrel.

The XCR has the best ergonomics (for right handers) of any rifle out there. If you already have ARs, it would be a nice addition.

I quite enjoy shooting my 16" XCR-L suppressed. It's one of my favorite guns. Only thing I don't like is the stock, I have the old ace style tube, the new stocks are amazing though.

Barrel change utility is greatest when you have multiple calibers and/or barrel lengths to switch between.

My brother has a 16" -L. While I prefer AR's, it's the only piston-driven rifle I'd consider. Durable, reliable, accurate, and ergonomic. Easy to maintain and well-thought out. It's a little front heavy, but that's a trait common to all piston rifles. In three thousand rounds or so, it's never had an issue. When he needed parts- gas valve upgrade- RobArms got it out quick and without issue.

How durable is the stock hinge?

I've never heard of a broken one, has anyone else? The new stocks are pretty substantial, not at all like a SCAR. There was someone making adapters so you can mount an ACR stock onto your XCR, always wanted one but I could never find one.

I can only speak to the older, tubular stock, but it's beefy. The tightness on both the hinge and the locking button can be adjusted. The newer FAST stocks look awesome, but, if you don't need to adjust the LOP, the original will be fine.

It's been a little bit since I've seen an XCR discussion.

I can't help with info on the mini or -M.  What I can say is RA doesn't have the greatest rep regarding CS.  I can't speak from experience because I haven't needed any.  But I tell people to go into the purchase with their eyes open.  It's a small-time manufacturer.  But they do continue to tweak and upgrade things.  

I've been very happy with my 16" XCR-L.  Bought it as 5.56/.223 but got a 7.62x39 conversion.  The rifle has been great.  The only failures I've had all have been extended shooting of steel cased Wolf, where the chamber gets a bit of a carbon build up, leading to a stuck case.  If I stay on top of cleaning the chamber after Wolf, there's no issues.  Never failed me with brass cased ammo.

I run mine in 3-gun, so it doesn't get babied.  Last month had a roll-pin walk out of the charging handle, but I'm not using the factory charging handle so don't fault RA on that.  Other than that, durability has been great.

Barrel change utility is all going to be on you.  It meant a good deal to me, because I wanted caliber change capability.  The zero obviously changes but for me it's a couple inches at 100 yards.  Honestly, I chalk that up to luck that mine happens to be close between barrels.  

Worth the money?  I think so.  But I hate the AR ergos.  Charging handle and bolt catch make no sense to me.  I will say the XCR has additional height over bore you have to consider.  I failed to account for it enough on one 3 gun stage and put several rounds through a side view mirror of a car shooting from the trunk area.  

I've used mine with the factory tube stock, the M4 adapter with a CTR and the ACR stock.  Didn't like the factory tube...too short for my long arms.  The M4 and CTR worked well, but I got one of the limited run ACR stock adapters that were made and I do like the ACR stock better.  The CTR is now on my shotgun.  I have not used the FAST stock, so I can't speak to it.  As I mentioned, I've also got a folding charging handle that was a limited run aftermarket option.

Here's mine (muzzle devices have been changed since the photo...use a FSC on the 5.56 and a BABC on the 7.62x39):

Nice.  So im assuming they dont make the ACR adapter anymore?

Looks good with the ACR stock adaptor!  How long do barrel changes take?

So ive seen quite a few used rifles heree and on gunbroker, if one ends up with the old style gas system, is it a fairly simple fix? Also can I just add their new modular stock to one?

Robinson never produced the ACR adapter. A forum member on XCR Forums named EZED made one while I was in the middle of designing my own (his was better so I scrapped mine). If you find them they're going to run you about $300 or more. I designed the folding charging handle (essentially a modified inch pattern FAL handle) BuddyChryst has on his rifle and that's still produced by Mountain Man, another forum member. I believe that he also still produces a checkered aluminum charging handle knob that replaced the factory plastic knob that I gave him the designs for.

Love my XCR, although I ended up switching out the ACR stock for the factory FAST stock.

ACR:


FAST:

Barrel changes only take about a minute. You change the bolt if needed and loosen the single screw that holds the barrel and then slide it out.



The gas block is held onto the barrel with a large set screw in the bottom. Just remove that and slide on your new gas block with the updated gas system. I took it a step further and drilled and pinned that screw in place so that there's no chance of it ever coming undone.

Im looking pretty serious at picking up a 10" and possibly a .308 now guys.

About how much do the conversion setups and FAST stock cost?  The website wasnt much help with that.

the fast stock is going for 200$ on the XCR forum usually.

I think Robinson has buffered themselves from the general public with a few dealers (good people) who'll answer your pm's, calls, messages and forum posts.

I have three barrels on the upgraded L with original stock.  Customer Service was great when TS was there.

You got to be kidding me. How could anyone recommend one of these things over the plethora of combat-proven guns out there given the widely known HORRIBLE customer service RA has? The XCR forums are half full of pissed off customers who are frustrated waiting on no ETA/no response orders or no CS on their not 100% reliable guns, and the other half of posters being XCR fanboys bending backwards left and right for RA to screw them when they're not flaming on any users who post of issues with their product - a.k.a. that they're not being patient enough and doing this and that to troubleshoot the finicky thing.

Range toy at best. Definitely innovative, but reliability and serviceability comes first for me.

Did yours not work well?

Well, you may have been correct several years ago about CS.  It seems they've made some CS changes and I haven't heard problems in a while.  As for the forum, it's really just political talk now.  Not much going on there.

As for the rifle, I don't know if I'd "recommend" it.  But then, I know firearms are as subjective as cigars, wine and art.  I'll tell people I love mine, but I've only handled mine.  I haven't had bad experiences, because mine works great.  All the controls are where they should be.  Plenty of rail space to add whatever you want.  No "sproing" when it cycles.  I've had new shooters fire an AK and put it down after 3 shots because it recoils too much.  Hand them my XCR with the 7.62x39 kit and have them try it.  They have no issues with recoil and blow through a mag.  

If the XCR isn't for you, you're not hurting my feelings at all.  I don't know what your experience with an actual XCR is, but it sounds like you're just regurgitating things you've heard on the internet for years.  Maybe I'm wrong; maybe you own 4.  As for range toys, how often have you used your ARs outside of the range?

As usual, BuddyChryst says exactly what I'm thinking. I also can't speak to personal experience with the CS because I've never had a single issue with my XCR either.

I have one XCR-M in .308/7.62 Nato) and 2 XCR-L's.

635 rounds through the -M.  Nothing has broken.  I shoot it with an EOTech 1x sight, so have not done extensive accuracy testing to the nth degree.  It likes 46.0gr W748 with 147gr M80 bullets and 40.0gr IMR4895 with 162-175gr bullets.  I use 10 and 20rd Magpul mags with it.  No failures to function except when breaking it in and I needed to set the gas to give it more gas to move the operating parts back far enough for proper extraction and ejection.  Since break in, I've been able to reduce the gas setting.  Turn to max gas when breaking it in for the first 2-300 rounds and then reduce gas after parts are smoothed out.  Some folks like adjustable gas (I do) and some folks don't.  I figure the less gas I give it and still have perfect functioning, the easier it is on the gun.

XCR-L #1:  2442 rounds of 5.56 fired through it.  No malfunctions.  Note:  It was an early one that had the later, easier adjustable gas block added (bolts right on).  HOWEVER, the earlier gas blocks used a bigger gas port hole in the bbl.  If you put an later gas block on it, due to the bigger gas hole, you'll need to set the gas on a lower setting (typically on "S" for suppressed) otherwise the empties get flung a long ways.  It is my understanding that if the bbl is returned to Robinson Arms for the new gas block, they will fill and redrill a smaller gas port.  Leaving mine set on "S" works fine for me for all 5.56 ammo or reloads, as I don't shoot it suppressed and flings the empties about  6-8 feet away.

XCR-L #2:  A later version that came with the new gas block.  I had a stuck 5.56 case once and tried to get it out by applying force to the charging handle and bent it.  Correct procedure is same as the AR-15...pogo it while applying moderate force to the charging handle.  Robinson sent a new charging handle assembly, and I paid for it since it was my fault...improperly sized reload.  795 5.56 rounds fired, 1590 7.62x39 rounds fired, and 750 300 Blackout rounds fired through it.  No malfunctions in 5.56 and 7.62x39 (other than the improper 5.56 reload).  With the 300 Blackout conversion in place, I had several failures to chamber when using a Magpul mag, but none with metal mags.  After a few hundred rounds fired, I tried that same Magpul mag, and it's worked flawless since then.  Had the bbl retaining screw slightly loosen up with the Blackout conversion in place, which made the point of impact move (I though my optic was malfunctioning, but it was a loose bbl screw...made sure it was snug, and no problems since...I now check it every range trip, and it's been fine ever since.)  The 7.62x39 kit came with a heavier hammer spring.  I installed the new hammer spring, but it increased my trigger pull too much for me.  I put back in the standard spring, my trigger pull went back to normal, and it still pops all the 7.62x39 primers just fine.  Installing another caliber bbl means you'll probably need to resight it...at least when using my 5.56, 7.62x39 and 300BLK conversion kits on my #2 XCR-L.  To me, it feels like the recoil of the 7.62x39 and 300BLK are slightly harsher than when shooting it in 5.56 even though I use the light profile 5.56 bbl and the heavy profile other caliber bbls.  For proper function in #2 with 5.56, I set the gas to "1" for my reloads and brass case ammo.  When using Wolf or Tula factory steel case ammo, the gas needs to be on "3" to give the gun enough oomph to function properly.  In Blackout, if gun is clean, setting "4" works; when rifle is dirty I use "5"; I've gotten so I just leave the Blackout set on "5".  7.62x39 works fine on "2".  YMMV

Both of my -L's have the RA original folding stock, which I like.  In my few thousand rounds fired, one of the stocks needed its adjustment screw slightly turned out to snug up the stock lockup, otherwise no problems.  The -M came with their FAST stock; no complaints on function with it, but I think their tube folding stocks look better.  

I liked my first -L so much, when another became available locally, I bought it.  RA bbls are 4140 steel with a chrome lining (per correspondence with the owner of RA).  I gage my bbls for wear with TE gages, and it appears they will give a nice long life.  I do have the RA small parts kit for each, but have never needed the parts.  The locking lugs on the bolts are massive compared to the AR-15.  The rifles are a bit heavy to me.  The newest ones come with a slimmer key mod forend...got to handle one, and it feels REAL NICE and lighter.  I felt the delivery time when I ordered the 7.62x39 conversion kit was excessive for something they said was in stock...bought it several years ago though.  

Almost forgot, with the Blackout conversion kit I had the bolt hold open screw loosen up (it had never loosened when shooting 5.56 or 7.62x39 in -L #2)...might be something about the Blackout recoil...tightened it up with no further happening, but I now check it every range trip when I check the bbl screw.  Love the bolt hold open catch position at the front bottom of the trigger guard...no shifting your hold to use it.  

Hope this post helps.

my biggest problem is carrying the barrels.

I never even considered how easy the conversion to .300 is... Okay, where do I get a .300 blackout barrel?

I've been hearing "RA used to have bad CS" for years now. Just go on the forum and see within the last year post of issues. Go on youtube and see MAC's experience with RA's rifles and customer service last year. Also had a customer last year transfer an XCR-M. You know where he bought it? Kermit, almost the only dealer you can buy them from, especially at that time. He ended up selling it as his experience echoed MAC's in that the accuracy wasn't what he was expecting.

Never owned personally. Thought hard not once, twice, but three times about purchasing one. Every time decided against it and got another KAC rifle. I'm not one to quickly and assertively suggest otherwise to someone about a gun I never owned. However I will put my opinion in here for the XCR. Tired of seeing people get burned.

I'm sure some of you have had no issues with yours. And probably even more who just have had minor finessing issues as seen in this thread. But in the event you have a serious problem it's not the most assuring feeling having read of others' experiences. No contracts and essentially one dealer where you can buy the model you want in a somewhat timely manner should be a clue.

Lots of companies out there with quick CS who produce a product that is dependable and requires no finessing. To name a few, my KACs and HKs have never skipped a beat in the thousands of rounds I've put through them. No finessing, no adjustment/break in gas setting requirement, and available at dealer after dealer.

I may be the minority here but I won't send 2.5K to a mixed reputation company when they're are plenty of well respected companies out there. Just another perspective here, if you like your XCR great and what I said may not apply to the OP. In that case, hope it works out for you and enjoy it

WholeBunches: Thanks for the excellent review. Thank you kindly for that.

Does anyone else have any actual experience with the XCR-M? I'm intrigued, and it seems like a fine rifle. However, the amount of bullshit one needs to wade through to get any usable information is staggering. Hearsay, conjecture, and outright disinformation make obtaining a clear picture damn difficult.

http://www.xcrforum.com/forum/12-trading-post/18779-little-jack-s-stuff-sale-include-300blk-conversions.html  Here's navalbeaver's email:  [email protected]  Looks like he's currently out of the Blackout conversions, but contact him as he may have some more coming in.  You'll need the bbl, gas block (it comes with the bbl) and the shorter gas tube if converting a standard length XCR-L to Blackout.  It takes a shorter gas tube since the gas block is nearer the chamber to give more pressure to operate the XCR, and the gas block sits inside your upper (change gas settings through the vent holes in the upper).  I'm lucky in a way in that Little Jacks is only 6 miles from my house.  Little Jacks will have the correct length gas tube for your setup.

Oh, I'd say my -M is about a 2 moa rifle if using good bullets (Nosler 165gr ballistic tips, M118 pulls, and new made M80 ball bullets).  With M80 pulls, it's more like 3-4 moa due to bullet flyers.  Recoil is mild to me with it.

Have you done any serious accuracy testing with higher quality bullets sorted by weight? I'm trying to decide if I want a DMR-type rifle (semi-auto, up to 800 yds. or so) or a precision bolt action rifle (more $$$). I've already got the latter planned out, but the -M is the only semi-auto circa .30 cal. in which I am really interested.

I have 6 XCR's.  4 L models and 2 M. With the new gas system and barrels we are getting 1/2" groups. The 9.5" .308 is called the dragon for a reason. Still, we are seeing 1.5 moa with it. As for customers service.  Holly has done a great job running that department. Repairs have generally been handled in 2 weeks or less.  All that said. I may be a little biased. I run the Robinson 3 gun team.  I won't say there have never been any issues with the rifles, but by any real standards they will run with the best. What few malfunctions we have are typically related to bad mags.  Alex has really done his homework and created what I believe to be the most durable battle rifle on the market. Do a web search for the Jeff Kirkham review.  I know him personally.  The man knows his stuff.

owtlaw, if you're running the RA 3 gun, tell Alex to design us a pistol and a shotgun!  I'd love to see what he'd come up with!

Good to know. My brother's XCR-L has been phenomenal. No operating problems, and customer service was prompt with handling upgrades.I wouldn't say it's better than my AR's, but it lacks in no department. The reviews I found on the -M point to some accuracy issues with early releases, but RobArms has been on top of that and newer releases are performing well.

Is it all possible to get a fixed version of the FAST stock? I really don't care for folding stocks and have no need for that utility of such a design.

Yes. They have a mount that is fixed instead of hinged.

For your viewing pleasure
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X_0Umjjemtc

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ysfkUJsK0OY

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zCqbFgW9k1E

That is fantastic. Thanks for responding.

That is awesome!  Gotta be proud of those two!  Can't wait 'till my girls are old enough.

So for us that aren't familiar what dealers stock guns and which ones are preferred?

Kermit at Wild Thang Farms.  Also direct factory orders. There are some others that I'm not familiar with. I will look into it for you. For your info. The 2 girls in those videos are ages 10 and 11. At the time of filming anyway. The Hard as Hell 3 gun was there 1st 3 gun match.

Google:
Kermit Zahm, Wild Thangs Farm
Little Jack's Guns

I always go through Kermit, only because Little Jack wasn't around when I bought and I'm just loyal (as long as good service continues). You can't go wrong with either.

Thanks guys sorry for the sidetrack.

So are the barrel changes the only thing making the XCR superior to the SIG system?

I have never been able to handle a xcr but heard the receiver is pretty long compared to a AR. Anyone have some side by side pics with similar barrel lengths?

I would say overall the XCR is probably a much more robust design.

It's closer to an AK in many regards.