The gun shops around me usually don't have what I want, and when they do, it's much more expensive than online. Every time I go in one I leave disappointed. They'll have a few boxes of 5.56 at 40 cents a round, or if I'm shopping for a different caliber, they'll just have  some ultra premium hunting rounds for $1.50 each.

Customer service, or a unique differentiating factor, are the only things that will get me to buy from brick and mortar.  The problem I've found is that most gun owners aren't the most savvy business people and seem to have no concept of what customer service actually is -- or marketing, for that matter.  I have yet to get great service from any brick and mortar shop in Illinois, and almost every conversation ends with me thanking the shop associate for their time, and me walking out the door irritated by their ignorance and lack of respect for the customer.  It's sad that the people who open brick and mortar stores are often those that perpetuate the most negative stereotypes of gun owners: Fat, bellicose/argumentative, irrationally conservative to the point of being racist/prejudice, and possessing the vocabulary of a 4th grade student.  As much as I hate social media, it's a perfect example of where local gun store owners seem to lack any concept of how the business landscape is changing.  If you're not willing to market creatively, offer phenomenal service, and have some differentiating factor, you will not survive.

Not only are most gun shop employees bad at customer service, they're also not very knowledgeable about firearms, or even willing to demonstrate an interest.  When I give friends firearms advice, I'm practically gushing with excitement -- even if it's about a particular area/type of firearm that I'm not bought into.  Whenever I have a conversation with a gun store associate, they talk as though they haven't slept in a week, and usually know less than I do.  Completely unacceptable.  I expect that type of service from a McDonald's employee - NOT from someone who has the privilege of working in a field that I'd be 110% excited to be in.  If you're going to work anywhere, you have to bring a certain level of excitement and knowledge to the table when you interact with customers.  I used to work at a car wash years ago, and even though bug-juice removal is 100% boring work, I'd still speak with emphasis and a happy vocal inflection.  Customers appreciated the knowledge that I brought, and I benefited greatly in the form of higher tips.

In my mind the traditional brick and mortar gun store is a relic of a time before the internet crushed informational asymmetry in the gun industry.  I know exactly what an AR15 BCG should cost.  I know exactly what a WASR-10 is worth.  I know exactly how much a S&W 5906 with 75% of the finish left is worth.  Unless a gun store associate can bring new knowledge to the table, or treat me like I'm actually worth something to them, I will never give them my business.  Frankly, I hope they fail.  The FFL's working out of their homes are 100x more knowledgeable, friendly, and willing to help.  I'd rather give them my money for a transfer than some crotchety old bag of bones who resents the "internets".

I also support my LGS and only use the Internet for things they don't carry. I also send my friends there if they want to get a firearm. In return, they give me an automatic discount. I stop by there almost everyday on the way home to see what came through on consignment that day. It may be cheaper to stop at a strip joint than there since things tend to follow me home.

      It gets the most expensive when things follow you home from the strip joint.    
So I've heard.

I love these threads

But for the short answer yes things are down and yes LGS are hurt the most. But a lot is their own fault. Seriously

Lets break it logically

You standard LGS primarily sells 3 items together but a pretty pointless with out each other guns, ammo and reloading. So tell me when you just sell these items how can you stay in business? Well you need secondary items as well holster weapon lights etc. That only goes so far. When you break it down its no more than a specialized section at Walmart, Academy, Cabelas.

But being specialized doesn't mean they are failing, a big reason why they are failing is many lost the trust of many customers. When LGS were charging  stupid prices over MSRP why should someone return to your store. If I was any of the owners I wouldnt have charged no more than MSRP. Could it hurt me in the short run sure but a loyal customer could understand . Yes I do understand supply and demand but your customer keeps you in business. A good salesman adjusts their prices due to inflation, a great salesman doesn't need their best seller to stay in business. You venture to what you can get and sell it.

Heck how many LGS got into body armor after Sandy Hook around zero. well why not? Most will give the excuse I didnt have the funds. NO they did they were just idiots on spending their money for inventory on over priced firearms that sit on their shelves. And yet they could easily get into it. Just need to know how to market and sell it. Why not read the rules/laws for teachers/school systems and try to sell body armor to them. If its legal on all fronts ask the principle if you could do a sales pitch and go from there. give them a discount. Also look into what non lethal devices are permissible on grounds (sure many are not allowed but doesnt hurt to look) If you sell it as defense for the kids, much easier to sell than a tool of war. You could easily find a new market you normally wouldnt have. Of course thats too much work for an LGS and if they arent willing to find new ways to market themselves they deserve to fail.

To the thought that a $50 transfer fee is "reasonable". that's outrageous.

I have a SOT I use for all my transfers. He charges $10 for Title I and $25 for Title II transfers. One or 25 guns transferred at once, still just ten dollars total.

The day of the "local gun shop" as a haven of exemplary customer service deserving of my money is long gone. Internet sales at the lowest price and finding transfers at the lowest price is the only "gun shop" I want to deal with. I don't even like going into a Cabelas, Bass Pro, Sportmans, etc due to the clientele they attract, would much rather shop online than next to someone wearing dirty sweatpants and a 5xl tshirt.

The $50 dollar fee is not outrageous to most Californians.

I went to Turners one time to request an out of state transfer, They told me it was $150 + $25 CA DOJ FEE + 8.5% TAX to do one fucking gun.

Went to someone a little further and it was $50 total

Some of these threads crack me up.

Most of you commenting have never worked or owned your own company and yet some of you seem to know how the world works.

Granted there are some LGS that seem to want to make a killing on each sale...I don't understand how they stay in business, but they stay afloat.

Bud's and other large online vendors sell mass volumes, so they also buy in bulk, so you know that they are getting better prices then the little gun shop that is trying to compete.

The internet does level the playing field as many items can be purchased online for less money.  

LGS will need to be open to do the transfers, but it can be tough run a business when they are competing with such large companies.

Before I left the PRK I used to stagger gun purchases so I would have multiples to pick up at a time.  That 10 day wait sucks.  Any transfer I do in AZ, the gun doesn't sit at the dealer for more than a few hours.  CA?  2 weeks on average, and it took at least an 45 minutes to do the paperwork, and then come back to pick up.

Its only tough when you refuse to cater to your market. While walmart sell alot ,walmart doesnt have a bow-tech. I havent seen many LGS investing into archery even though its has had its biggest boom in the last 30+ years (no exaggeration)

you sound like a real ray of sunshine I'm sure you are just perfect in every way and a big tpper to boot

Yes I will never figure Gander Mt out.



I think today a guy getting an FFL has to be honest with himself - quitting my full time gig to sell guns out of a store is lunacy.  A guy has to have another angle or you should really get out of the business.  I have dealt with two LGS in the last few yrs.  One was a retired gentlemen working out of his extra garage specializing in ordering guns for people and one was 3 guys working out of a store front specializing in reloading supplies, teaching reloading classes and carrying no inventory.  I am cool with ordering guns and waiting so liked working with both of these places.

1 in 4 local shops are worth going to. My least favorite local shop was selling dirty .45 reloads for 13.99 a box in the mid to late 90's. Still in the biz. Yeah no thanks.

 That's not unique to a brick and mortar gun shop, all dealers have to comply.  If you think the burden is high on a brick and mortar dealer with 100 guns on the shelf and a 1000 guns sold a year, imagine the challenges for an online dealer with 10,000 guns in inventory and 100,000 sold a year.



This is an excellent example of the business model that is killing local guns shops, and an excellent example of the some of the myths that are out there.

First, during the panic local shops massively inflated prices to make a quick buck.  That sounds nice, but for every firearm or box of ammo he sold to a customer stupid enough to pay that much, he most likely irritated at least 20 customers who would not/could not pay that much.  Those customers are likely to have long memories and thus crossed his shop off the list of shops they'll buy from.

As for restocking his inventory, if he ordered from a wholesaler his cost increases were in fact pretty modest at between 5% and 15% over the last couple years.  If he's telling you he had to pay much higher costs, he's either lying to you or he was restocking his inventory from other retail dealers and/or buying used firearms, and/or was buying ammo from either retail sources (like Walmart) at retail prices (about twice his wholesale cost) or buying ammo from scalpers at higher than that cost.

Any way you slice it I have no sympathy for him as buying from retail sources at retail prices only required him to double his retail price to get the same markup.  More to the point, with high volume sales with nothing staying on the shelves, he could have still made a killing with high gross slew and higher net profit at less than a normal 100% markup. And in the case of buying ammo from scalpers, he was just supporting that practice and making the over all ammo availability situation worse.

Now…we can argue that his actions in price gouging were "fair" as he was just reacting to a free market economy, and that is indeed true.  But it's still an incredibly stupid business practice as it is indeed a free market economy and all those people who looked and said "no thanks" are now buying stuff elsewhere.  There's no free lunch, and the last thing a local gun shop can do and expect to survive is treat it's local customers badly.    

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The major legitimate hardship for local gun shops has been the very long back order times from their wholesalers.   It's just not possible to sell what you can't get in stock, and when the lead time is 18 months that can create a cash flow problem.

Smart shops did take in guns for sale at prices where they could afford to turn them around quickly, at a reasonable markup to maintain enough cash flow to pay the rent, but they were careful not to massively over stock, and they were careful not to assume that things would last forever.

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Locally, we had a shop here that had a pallet load of some rather low quality .22 LR ammo, that had sat there for at least a year before the shortage.  He could not move it for what he had it priced for.  After the panic, when decent 22LR dried up and he started selling it, he massively increased the price and claimed he "had no choice" because his wholesale costs had increased.   He was telling the truth to the extent that the replacement cost for all of this ammo had went up about 7%, but that in no way justified the 300% markup in price.   Had the justification been, I need to raise the price to slow down the sales so that I can maintain a stock for customers who buy guys I'd have accepted that.  Had he set ammo aside for sales with his firearms (say two boxes per firearm in stock) I'd have also accepted that, but he chose the one approach that clearly told me that his major goal was to separate as much money has possible from his customers right now, with nor regard for his customers or for the future.  I don't support businesses that operate that way.

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The same shop also has a history of selling firearms and then referring the customer directly to the manufacturer if there is a problem.  That's also an incredibly poor business practice as well, as the shop is charging brick and mortar prices who customers who then expect a brick and mortar level of service.  When that customer walks in and says "the new gun you sold me yesterday has a defect", the response they want to see is someone from the shop pulling them selves away from the BS session and/or political discussion they are involved in and contacting that companies customer service department for you, and if needed shipping the firearm back to them for you.  When instead the response is "you'll have to call them yourself" the end result is the loss of all of that customer's future business to another shop or to on-line dealers that give the same level of non-service in exchange for lower purchase price.




 

You hit everything right on the head. And most people dont understand that many LGS went out of business during this time. Some because they were loosing money and one i know for sure (in El Paso) went out of business with inaccurate logs. There might have been more LGS today if they stuck at or slightly above MSRP (theres a reason companies give an MSRP). I worked at Academy during this time. And I did slight increases in prices. Nothing major but still noticable (i think highest increase was $30 more for the Sig SP2022) Were are shelves bare yup. In fact when many of the popular autos left people started buying revolvers (but thats a whole other story) it was funny my manager and myself had a similar conversation about this. Many LGS in the area bought magazines and ammo at our store and sell for a mark up at their LGS (seeing the monarch ammo, an academy exclusive marking from PPU was just funny)

Your last point on "being the manufactures problem" happens at many LGS. With the amount of ARs Glocks M&Ps Sigs sold, im surprised none of them  invest the profits they got and put into armory courses for their employees. By just doing that would add revenue in a heartbeat. Its sad that many LGS seem to be selling snake oil in todays market.

Local gun shops are just another local specialty retailer being annihilated by the Internet competition. This is just the way the world works:old business models are replaced in favor of better business models. The standard LGS business model cannot compete, mostly because it sucks. The fact that these guys are still in business makes them dedicated, but it does not necessarily make them genius businessmen.

What's the standard LGS business model? From what I can tell:
1. Charge MSRP or higher.
2. Claim to offer superior service, yet be rude and/or not actually support your own sales directly.
3. Stock only the stuff that moves fast and has high margins.
4. Completely ignore building long-term relationships with customers in favor of an extra buck right now.
5. Completely ignore aesthetics in the shop.

You can basically tell which shops will live or die by how much they diverge from the above. The time when you could charge MSRP (or over!) and deliver minimal service is gone. Long-term success is going to depend on building relationships with high value customers and delivering real value with customer service. I've spent quite a bit of money at an LGS which does me favors when I need them. In return, I buy stuff, and I don't expect them to take a loss on me. IMHO, an LGS should do is set out a big sign in front with what exactly their customer service will do for customers before, during, and after the sale. And if they want to sell some guns that aren't covered by those guarantees (ie, "customer, you're going to need to deal with the manufacturer if there are problems"), feel free to sell them and label them as such.

Another way you can tell who's going to live or die... ask yourself: if Congress decided you could just fill out a 4473 online and get a gun delivered to your door, which LGS would still be around?

The closest stocking LGS to me is in the next town 20-30 minutes away.  The internet is my friend.  

The LGS stuff is typically 25-30% higher.  That's big for me right now.

This is actually good business practice and just about everyone does it this way.

Why do you think places like Target, Walmart, K-mart, Academy, Cabelas and many others have from 50%-75% of their layout is clothing. Most clothing items are about 45%-75% markup (the higher mark ups are typically your hats socks novelty t shirts) And that stuff goes pretty quickly. Its not good business practice to invest in a expensive product that will turn little product if you have very little customers for it.

Example: say your LGS invests in a Barrett .50 (any model) or Desert Eagle or a Spaz-12 (yeah i know super exotic but let me finish). Its going to take quite a bit of money (the Desert Eagle not so much as the other 2) but your general customer isnt going to look for that. They would say "Oh, thats cool" take pictures with and "finger-bang" it. Is there anything wrong with that not really but its not making your shop money. But on the flip side if they did gun rentals, those items would be rented (and if i were to estimate a pretty high rental turn around) Your average customer wants a Glock Sig M&P, not a desert eagle, but wouldnt mind bragging about shooting one.

these sound like pretty reasonable prices I see around here also.

That's simple - reduce your overhead. Seems crazy high. Move somewhere or operate out of your basement and/or online.  If possible.

You will pass on the savings to the price shopping consumer. Make your PMags $1 cheaper than elsewhere and you will have a long line at your door.

That's what everyone does these days - price shopping. Cheapest price wins.

The economy is bad.

It's not just gun shops.  Everything sells very slow. Took me a year to sell a car. Nobody is spending for anything other than food and gas, or so it seems. All the shopping at malls, etc. is just window shopping. Fun shows are kind busy  (and noticeably less packed than a year ago) but I suspect most of it just 'window shopping' also.

We have a large LGS.  They have a crazy selection in terms of diversity and quantity. I go in there to look at things, handle stuff, and have spent a lot of cash there in the last few years.  But it is fucking difficult for me to buy an AR there when they are asking 2200 and I know I can get the same one for 1800 (or even a little less) via the web.

There is another LGS that is just outlandish when it comes to pricing...shit is being charged over MSRP, just crazy prices, but they are still not only in business, but are doing well.  This tells me that there is a significant portion of individuals who are loyal to a certain store.

After working at one of our local fun store's, I came to understand that there are many people that are not comfortable doing a firearm purchase "online."

I can't tell you how many times I had to explain to folks (mainly younger to middle aged people) how to purchase a firearm online, and that whole process.  Even then, you could tell that most would not be comfortable doing it.

I buy on the internet.

ETA: My FFLfor transfers is a hardware store