Similar to the Japanese type arisaka why aren't more bolt action rifles designed that way?
from a range stand point i know that i wouldn't have to, shot shot shot shot click, then reload
from a cod super mall ninja tactical tier one navy seal cia operator stand point, you would know when you're out,
i never served a day in my life so should i be counting my shots? (please educate my pansy ass)


i know that on a semi auto rifle its almost a deal breaker for me
so why not a bolt action rifle?

Thanks!

Most hold under five shots.  You don't really need to count to know your out.        
 

okay, thats for the info but im sorry to say it didn't really answer my question

I had a Savage model 99 that had a brass ring in side of it to tell you how many rounds you have left. Also it had a Cocked indicator on top of the bolt assm. It was a 303 savage.

My MVP has one.

1903 Springfield rifles has a stop on the follower when empty you cannot close bolt.

Because there is no need for it. You are not fighting Tannenberg or Passchendaele. Shooters bitched generations ago and gunsmiths of the time milled ramps into the follower so the bolt would close while empty.

but there IS a use for it, to let you know when your out and that you don't dry fire when you mean to shoot

5.56 or .308?
i just ordered on in 308

Tens of millions of sport hunters across the globe do not share your point of view. In the marketplace of ideas, yours lost.

Now, if you want to pay a smith to weld one onto your existing follower, or have them machine a new follower, then rock on. They are your rifles, after all.

Maybe because not having a last round bolt open would allow
Soldiers to drop a round into the chamber without having to
load it into the magazine first, and still close the bolt fast and fire.

that makes a little more sense, and i can see how that won over the other design,

true, true,
now let me ask another question, im 19 now so i haven't been around for a long time, has this "tactical" community been around for a long time
because if not i can easily see how that design won over the other

The MAS Mle 36 has a floorplate that will keep the bolt open. On a surplus rifle, I can take it or leave it. On a hunting/sporting rifle, no thanks.

The K98k is like this, as is the SMLE/No.3 and No.4 rifle series.

However, as noted the Arisaka, the M1903 series, and the M1917 do have a follower that will impede bolt travel if the mag is empty. The 03 also has the magazine cut-off switch that prevents the bolt from traveling fully rearward, therefore the follower can't pop up in front of it. However, the bolt has to be forward of the switch in order to engage the cut-off function.

It's worth noting that military ammunition in the era of bolt-action rifles was rarely issued as loose rounds. Generally it was issued on stripper clips (chargers) and possibly in bandoleers as well. The possibility of dropping a single loose round into the feedway over an empty magazine in an emergency was generally pretty remote, versus just charging the magazine with a fresh clip.

(the Mosin family are left out of my comparison because I can't remember whether its follower prevents bolt travel when the magazine is empty)


Probably a large part of why the feature of a bolt hold-open is no longer included is that it's far easier to make the rifle safe one-handed with a non-impeding follower. Just check the chamber, close the bolt, and either dry-fire or engage the safety.
For most bolt-action shooting these days, the chance of being in a situation calling for such rapidity of fire that the shooter can't either count rounds or look to see if a round fed is astronomically remote. Even military snipers probably seldom see a situation calling for maximum-rate bolt action fire. Certainly most hunters never do.

Mosins don't hold open.

If you don't know when your last round has been fired in a bolt action. perhaps another type of gun might be wise.

5.56.
HOWEVER I NEED TO CORRECT MY LAST POST.
 The MVP has this little "flap" that grabs a round from the mag. When your last round is fired it Doesn't hold the bolt open. What it does is drag on the follower, giving you a different feel , than the smoothness you get when chambering a round. SO it's not a True BHO. More like a HEY You have an empty mag.

Either way, enjoy your new MVP.

That sounds a lot better than a true BHO in a bolt gun.



 

i see, ive heard in the 308 version the m1a mags will stick up enough to stop the bolt, but i can for alot of you guys (especially for hunting/ sporter use) just dropping one round in is fairly common,
does anyone make an aftermarket follower for a remington 700 that will stop the bolt? or a good tutorial on how to do it?
i can't be the only one thinking this, or maybe i am,

i see, ive heard in the 308 version the m1a mags will stick up enough to stop the bolt, but i can for alot of you guys (especially for hunting/ sporter use) just dropping one round in is fairly common,
does anyone make an aftermarket follower for a remington 700 that will stop the bolt? or a good tutorial on how to do it?
i can't be the only one thinking this, or  i am

Yes

lol, obviously im not because they were built into the Springfield 1903 (i don't know for certain but it was mentioned earlier) and the arisaka
and its basically a must for all modern semi rifles
but i hear your point

Yes they do  unfortunately  SR-25 / DPMS pattern mags do not.

AR15 mags do not LRBO in the 5.56 MVP.

A fix is in development for that.


The follower from a Rem 740/742/7400 mag might fit in a 700.
IDK If it has been tried but if it does fit then you would have the LRBO like real right proper bolt real guns were meant to

This.  I thought all bolt actions were that way. (1903 was my first bolt gun)  I guess I've been pressing down on the follower on some rifles needlessly.  

+1
thanks for the info!!!
i like the way you think!

My BOYS ATR has it .......................

There were some countries that used the Mauser 93/95/98 series that had the rear of the follower straight up to stop the bolt when empty, same as the M1903 Springfield.  Soldiers on duty back in the 30s, used to keep a dime on them.  This was inserted over the rear of the follower allowing the bolt to over ride the bolt stop.  This was used to smartly close the bolt during "Inspection Arms".  Check with Brownells to see if any company makes the follower you need for a Rem 700.


CD

No, the solution to that particular problem was a magazine cut off, as used on the 1903 Springfield.   The cut off prevents the rifle from feeding from the magazine at all, so a soldier can single load rounds while keeping the magazine in reserve.  The .30-40 Krag used a differently designed magazine and cut off but accomplished the same goal.

Think of it as the 1892-1903 version of final protective fire.

----

The 1898 Mauser  was designed so the magazine follower would hold the bolt open when the magazine was empty. Single loading a 98 Mauser, or any other non cut off equipped rifle with a hold open device just requires you to press the round into the magazine and feed it out of the magazine.

Many 98 Mausere war sporterized and the square corner at the rear of the follower was ground to an angle to allow the bolt to close over an empty magazine.   I suspect this was done to make it easier for an owner to cycle the bolt for clearing, cleaning, etc with a scope mounted on top.  But even then, the intent was not to single load roads by laying them in the tray.

That highlights a significant difference between the military 98 Mauser, the 1903 Springfield and the many commercial Mausers and clones.   The extractor on the military Mauser is as controlled feed as you can get and it will not push feed a round (that started out on top of the magazine rather than in it)  very well unless the extractor profile is modified slightly to help it jump over the cartridge rim.  That's exactly what was done to the 1903 to allow single feeding of rounds and the same thing has been down to a large number of commercial amusers clone and sporterized Mausers - to the extent in some cases that they are not true controlled feed actions anymore.

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Consequently, the answer is that it's complicated and it depends on a lot of factors involving the design and intended use of the rifle.

The 308 MVP will hold open with M1A mags but do not with DPMS style.

The Magpul DPMS style fit looser but cycle smoother since the bolt is riding over plastic. The M1A fit better but the sprial fluted bolt rides over it ruffer. The M1As also come in 15rd mags which I think are a perfect length for that rifle. Im torn on which to standardize to. Im thinking of the 10rd Magpuls for hunting and off the bench. 15rd M1As for fun.

As already stated, there's plenty of examples of old school combat rifles that had the feature, however in civilian hands this has not been as much an issue.  The way I figure it is if bold hold open was a desired feature in the tactical world, you'd see more rifles equipped with it.

The answer is that no one uses bolt guns for serious combat any more.   Even snipers are going to shoot once and move, not staying around long enough for any type of sustained fire.  These bolt action rifles today are not used in the same manner as before the era of high magazine capacity semi-auto or full auto combat arms.

I have many bolt guns.  All are for hunting, target  or long range precision work.  Many different manufacturers.  Remington, Winchester, Sako, Browning, Ruger, Weatherby and others.  None have box magazines. They all have either floor plates or blind magazines.   This streamlines the rifle, and keeps weight down.  None have any sort of magazine round count capability.  None is needed.

Depending on whether the rifle is a standard caliber or magnum, the magazine holds either four or three, plus the one in the chamber.  This is extremely easy to keep up with, even under stress.  I have never needed to empty a magazine, not even a three count magnum magazine, in the field.  If I can't put the game down with the first shot or a quick follow up shot, a third shot is not going to present itself.  The sole exception might be on dangerous game, but you certainly do not have time to recharge the magazine in such instances.

You seek a solution for a no longer existent problem, IMHO..