User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 4:55:15 PM EDT
[#1]
interesting, tag
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 5:00:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Still an NFA item.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 5:14:24 PM EDT
[#3]
Back in the day a suppressor tube was the restricted part. You could to the fun show and buy a stack. The guy at the next table sold "flashlight" tubes.
You bought one of each. Got home and made an unregistered suppressor. ATF called shenanigans as they should have. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 5:22:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Back in the day a suppressor tube was the restricted part. You could to the fun show and buy a stack. The guy at the next table sold "flashlight" tubes. You bought one of each. Got home and made an unregistered suppressor. ATF called shenanigans as they should have. So back then the ATF changed their rules because they "assumed" someone was breaking the law? And you agree with that? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 5:32:16 PM EDT
[#5]
Engrave a tube and voila. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 5:34:46 PM EDT
[#6]
I don't think it would work. A tube is a suppressor and so is a baffle according to the ATF. Dude to that view I'd say there is absolutely no way this would work.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 6:19:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So back then the ATF changed their rules because they "assumed" someone was breaking the law? And you agree with that? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Back in the day a suppressor tube was the restricted part. You could to the fun show and buy a stack. The guy at the next table sold "flashlight" tubes. You bought one of each. Got home and made an unregistered suppressor. ATF called shenanigans as they should have. So back then the ATF changed their rules because they "assumed" someone was breaking the law? And you agree with that? For every stamped suppressor back then I saw ten not stamped. Just like lightning links and DIAS's they were everywhere and not a stamp in sight. Whether I agree with the law or not isn't the point. People were regularly breaking the law. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 6:36:22 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For every stamped suppressor back then I saw ten not stamped. Just like lightning links and DIAS's they were everywhere and not a stamp in sight. Whether I agree with the law or not isn't the point. People were regularly breaking the law. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Back in the day a suppressor tube was the restricted part. You could to the fun show and buy a stack. The guy at the next table sold "flashlight" tubes. You bought one of each. Got home and made an unregistered suppressor. ATF called shenanigans as they should have. So back then the ATF changed their rules because they "assumed" someone was breaking the law? And you agree with that? For every stamped suppressor back then I saw ten not stamped. Just like lightning links and DIAS's they were everywhere and not a stamp in sight. Whether I agree with the law or not isn't the point. People were regularly breaking the law. And yet not a documented case of someone using such a setup to commit an additional crime, at least not that I can find. but I admit my google fu is weak |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 6:37:36 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Has anyone ever thought about making 80 and 90% completed silencers/suppressors for sale. It comes to mind, that a machine company can save on both the FFL fees, and annual SOT fee if they machine 80% complete silencers that will not work without additional work on them, and depending on the the materials used, the could manufacture these at a cost of only a few dollars, and then sell them for a few hundred dollars, well below silencer market price (they can also sell to the general public) from there the person who purchases it can fill out for the form 2, and once approved can complete the mfg of the silencer. Am i just understating how complex this work would be? there seems to be a precedent with 80% completed firearm receivers, so why wouldn't this work with silencers as well? actually it is currently being done. at least sort of. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 6:49:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think it would work. A tube is a suppressor and so is a baffle according to the ATF. Dude to that view I'd say there is absolutely no way this would work. Here is a simplified image of my idea, this would prevent BOTH the tubes, and the baffles from working, (the tube will not work without modification with completed baffles and vice versa) both will require work. 
this is a simplified example using a already existing silencer. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 6:53:23 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And yet not a documented case of someone using such a setup to commit an additional crime, at least not that I can find. but I admit my google fu is weak One Mac ten open bolt semi converted and a suppressor Two suppresor They exist. There is a reason open bolt semis are banned. There is a reason suppressor stacks are regulated. It was too easy for criminal types to get their hands on. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 7:13:01 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So back then the ATF changed their rules because they "assumed" someone was breaking the law? And you agree with that? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Back in the day a suppressor tube was the restricted part. You could to the fun show and buy a stack. The guy at the next table sold "flashlight" tubes. You bought one of each. Got home and made an unregistered suppressor. ATF called shenanigans as they should have. So back then the ATF changed their rules because they "assumed" someone was breaking the law? And you agree with that? Actually the ATF has no business in the silencer market, it isn't a firearm |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 7:18:39 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually the ATF has no business in the silencer market, it isn't a firearm Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Back in the day a suppressor tube was the restricted part. You could to the fun show and buy a stack. The guy at the next table sold "flashlight" tubes. You bought one of each. Got home and made an unregistered suppressor. ATF called shenanigans as they should have. So back then the ATF changed their rules because they "assumed" someone was breaking the law? And you agree with that? Actually the ATF has no business in the silencer market, it isn't a firearm ... silencers are considered a firearm accessory... also, anyone ever heard of someone serialising a potato for use in a potato silencer? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 8:27:11 PM EDT
[#14]
So i went and sent a letter to the atf technology branch for clarification on this, lets hope for the best y'all
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 8:31:16 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually the ATF has no business in the silencer market, it isn't a firearm The law calls it one. Agree, disagree it makes no difference. Run for congress and introduce a bill changing it. I didn't like the 55 speed limit either. It being an offense less than a misdemeanor I ignored it as a rule. It was still the damn law. I paid many a damn fine for it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 8:32:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So i went and sent a letter to the atf technology branch for clarification on this, lets hope for the best y'all Good luck. I doubt it though. Honest to god I don't see the difference between a muffler for my car and one for my gun. The law sure does though. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 8:52:07 PM EDT
[#17]
Aren't the oil filter adapters essentially an 80% suppressor? You buy the adapter, form a trust, send off your $200, and engrave your oil filter. First time you pull the trigger you've created a suppressor.
The only catch is, when your oil filter wears out, it's another $200 to engrave a new oil filter @ home. An SOT can do so, and will charge a fee for the service. So unless you have a tame SOT, the oil filter deal is a tax rape. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 1:19:19 AM EDT
[#18]
It could be Argued that a "golf-ball launcher" is an 80% suppressor. Way over sized, but it could be a base for you form 1 build.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 1:37:36 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And yet not a documented case of someone using such a setup to commit an additional crime, at least not that I can find. but I admit my google fu is weak One Mac ten open bolt semi converted and a suppressor Two suppresor They exist. There is a reason open bolt semis are banned. There is a reason suppressor stacks are regulated. It was too easy for criminal types to get their hands on. I stand corrected. 2 out of how many? and both of those over 20 years old? yep complete justification for restricting them 
sure there is a reason open bolt semis are banned. the ATF is a an organization designed to restrict our rights just think of how many times an actual registered full auto was used in a criminal act. 2 maybe 3? there is not a single justification for suppressors being regulated by the ATF. none. you say you don't agree with the law. but you sure seem to be defending it pretty substantially. I wonder do you support the whole sale restriction on who can own a orange soda bottle and a roll of duct tape? Because it is really, really easy for criminals to get those. Do you realize how easily criminals get a hold cars. Those are used by criminals all the time. better restrict them. you know for safety. What about those hobby lathes? a mild mannered wannabe machinist with a little reading could all of the sudden become a horrible, evil murdering criminal. Better start regulating muffler pipe and freeze plugs. not to mention oil filters and yes I have an approved form one and a registered can to go with it. oh the noes it is evil incarnate look out evil inside oh the horror, my eyes my eyes criminals everywhere just waitng to kill, maim and destroy |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 2:40:59 AM EDT
[#20]
I having a feeling they will say no to your letter, but sending it in definitely can't do any harm so I look for ward to the results.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 3:36:56 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Aren't the oil filter adapters essentially an 80% suppressor? You buy the adapter, form a trust, send off your $200, and engrave your oil filter. First time you pull the trigger you've created a suppressor. The only catch is, when your oil filter wears out, it's another $200 to engrave a new oil filter @ home. An SOT can do so, and will charge a fee for the service. So unless you have a tame SOT, the oil filter deal is a tax rape. A smart individual or trust would have the adapter engraved, and replace the $3 oil filter whenever they wanted. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 5:13:39 AM EDT
[#22]
Back in the day we would be at the abandoned sand pit shooting. Here would come some wannabe Rambo with his open bolt MAC 10. He would disable the disconnector and run FA. Rambo usually had an unregistered can as well.
Whether you agree with the law or not. It is still the law that carries a significant penalty. Our day of shooting ended as we didn't want to be associated with this stupidity. Buy a stamp or contribute to a candidate that will try to repeal the NFA. It is an infringement of our rights, but the courts don't agree. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 5:36:30 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A smart individual or trust would have the adapter engraved, and replace the $3 oil filter whenever they wanted. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Aren't the oil filter adapters essentially an 80% suppressor? You buy the adapter, form a trust, send off your $200, and engrave your oil filter. First time you pull the trigger you've created a suppressor. The only catch is, when your oil filter wears out, it's another $200 to engrave a new oil filter @ home. An SOT can do so, and will charge a fee for the service. So unless you have a tame SOT, the oil filter deal is a tax rape. A smart individual or trust would have the adapter engraved, and replace the $3 oil filter whenever they wanted. That's not how it works. It has been tried and the ATF said no.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 5:47:30 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's not how it works. It has been tried and the ATF said no. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Aren't the oil filter adapters essentially an 80% suppressor? You buy the adapter, form a trust, send off your $200, and engrave your oil filter. First time you pull the trigger you've created a suppressor. The only catch is, when your oil filter wears out, it's another $200 to engrave a new oil filter @ home. An SOT can do so, and will charge a fee for the service. So unless you have a tame SOT, the oil filter deal is a tax rape. A smart individual or trust would have the adapter engraved, and replace the $3 oil filter whenever they wanted. That's not how it works. It has been tried and the ATF said no. Cadiz gun works has the econo can and only charges 25 bucks for a replacement filter. 90 bucks or so for the filter and adaptor. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 7:42:33 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cadiz gun works has the econo can and only charges 25 bucks for a replacement filter. 90 bucks or so for the filter and adaptor. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Aren't the oil filter adapters essentially an 80% suppressor? You buy the adapter, form a trust, send off your $200, and engrave your oil filter. First time you pull the trigger you've created a suppressor. The only catch is, when your oil filter wears out, it's another $200 to engrave a new oil filter @ home. An SOT can do so, and will charge a fee for the service. So unless you have a tame SOT, the oil filter deal is a tax rape. A smart individual or trust would have the adapter engraved, and replace the $3 oil filter whenever they wanted. That's not how it works. It has been tried and the ATF said no. Cadiz gun works has the econo can and only charges 25 bucks for a replacement filter. 90 bucks or so for the filter and adaptor. Yeah, you're better off w/ a real can pretty quickly. That's not counting postage of your adapter being mailed to them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 10:05:28 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I stand corrected. 2 out of how many? and both of those over 20 years old? yep complete justification for restricting them
sure there is a reason open bolt semis are banned. the ATF is a an organization designed to restrict our rights just think of how many times an actual registered full auto was used in a criminal act. 2 maybe 3? there is not a single justification for suppressors being regulated by the ATF. none. you say you don't agree with the law. but you sure seem to be defending it pretty substantially. I wonder do you support the whole sale restriction on who can own a orange soda bottle and a roll of duct tape? Because it is really, really easy for criminals to get those. Do you realize how easily criminals get a hold cars. Those are used by criminals all the time. better restrict them. you know for safety. What about those hobby lathes? a mild mannered wannabe machinist with a little reading could all of the sudden become a horrible, evil murdering criminal. Better start regulating muffler pipe and freeze plugs. not to mention oil filters and yes I have an approved form one and a registered can to go with it. oh the noes it is evil incarnate look out evil inside oh the horror, my eyes my eyes criminals everywhere just waitng to kill, maim and destroy Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
And yet not a documented case of someone using such a setup to commit an additional crime, at least not that I can find. but I admit my google fu is weak One Mac ten open bolt semi converted and a suppressor Two suppresor They exist. There is a reason open bolt semis are banned. There is a reason suppressor stacks are regulated. It was too easy for criminal types to get their hands on. I stand corrected. 2 out of how many? and both of those over 20 years old? yep complete justification for restricting them
sure there is a reason open bolt semis are banned. the ATF is a an organization designed to restrict our rights just think of how many times an actual registered full auto was used in a criminal act. 2 maybe 3? there is not a single justification for suppressors being regulated by the ATF. none. you say you don't agree with the law. but you sure seem to be defending it pretty substantially. I wonder do you support the whole sale restriction on who can own a orange soda bottle and a roll of duct tape? Because it is really, really easy for criminals to get those. Do you realize how easily criminals get a hold cars. Those are used by criminals all the time. better restrict them. you know for safety. What about those hobby lathes? a mild mannered wannabe machinist with a little reading could all of the sudden become a horrible, evil murdering criminal. Better start regulating muffler pipe and freeze plugs. not to mention oil filters and yes I have an approved form one and a registered can to go with it. oh the noes it is evil incarnate look out evil inside oh the horror, my eyes my eyes criminals everywhere just waitng to kill, maim and destroy I know this is not what you want to hear. But the BATFE is not the sole source of the problem or the sole source of any regulations plaguing us for the last 80 years. By the time the ATF came along the National Firearms Act was law for 38 years. Way back in 1934 there was rampant crime being committed with readily available off the shelf machine guns. Basically we all got screwed over by bank robbers and the mafia. It is just easier to blame it all on the ATF. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 2:20:55 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good luck. I doubt it though. Honest to god I don't see the difference between a muffler for my car and one for my gun. The law sure does though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So i went and sent a letter to the atf technology branch for clarification on this, lets hope for the best y'all Good luck. I doubt it though. Honest to god I don't see the difference between a muffler for my car and one for my gun. The law sure does though. Weight, size , reducers to bring it down to size of barrel, and ability to place it in a rifle carry case. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 3:11:44 PM EDT
[#28]
Way back in 1934 there was rampant crime being committed with readily available off the shelf machine guns. Basically we all got screwed over by bank robbers and the mafia. While your statement is true, a lot of those machine guns were taken off the shelf of the local National Guard Armory, or from a police department. Some were purchased, and purchased legally, then used to commit crimes. But many were stolen from gov't/LE. At least 1 Maxim was offered for sale mail order during that time, as I remember seeing the classified ad in the back of an early 30s American Rifleman. Yet, I don't remember of any belt fed machine guns being used to commit crimes during that time period. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 5:19:18 PM EDT
[#29]
Suppressors and silencers should be on the retail shelf, right next to the ear plugs.
Best, JBR |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 6:38:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know this is not what you want to hear. But the BATFE is not the sole source of the problem or the sole source of any regulations plaguing us for the last 80 years. By the time the ATF came along the National Firearms Act was law for 38 years. Way back in 1934 there was rampant crime being committed with readily available off the shelf machine guns. Basically we all got screwed over by bank robbers and the mafia. It is just easier to blame it all on the ATF. I am fully aware of the bogus things the congress and the president used to justify the NFA in 1934. problem is I can't vote against any of them. they're dead. and Rex Davis died in 2008 |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 7:29:39 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Suppressors and silencers should be on the retail shelf, right next to the ear plugs. Best, JBR They're the same thing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/23/2014 8:36:48 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know this is not what you want to hear. But the BATFE is not the sole source of the problem or the sole source of any regulations plaguing us for the last 80 years. By the time the ATF came along the National Firearms Act was law for 38 years. Way back in 1934 there was rampant crime being committed with readily available off the shelf machine guns. Basically we all got screwed over by bank robbers and the mafia. It is just easier to blame it all on the ATF. And thank God! Otherwise we would live in a world with 82 shootings over 4th of July weekend! In Chicago alone! The NFA has not stopped or hindered criminals. The ATF has not stopped or hindered criminals. They have, in fact, facilitated criminal organizations illegal acquisition of firearms. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/23/2014 9:30:24 AM EDT
[#33]
The ATF has both stopped and hindered criminals. But at the same time they have supplied weapons to organizations that they should not have. The biggest problem with the ATF is the top slots are filled with political appointees and anti-gunners. All the field level guys I have met have been cool. Not apologizing for all their actions in the past, but everyone should realize that the good far outnumber the bad.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2014 1:45:46 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The ATF has both stopped and hindered criminals. But at the same time they have supplied weapons to organizations that they should not have. The biggest problem with the ATF is the top slots are filled with political appointees and anti-gunners. All the field level guys I have met have been cool. Not apologizing for all their actions in the past, but everyone should realize that the good far outnumber the bad. And that's the truth |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 1:12:54 AM EDT
[#35]
So, the atf responded that having any parts of a silencer constitutes having a silencer..
so i guess that means have that solid lump of titanium that i plan to turn into baffles constitutes me having a silencer. i think they didn't understand what i said, oh wells. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2014 5:24:01 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, the atf responded that having any parts of a silencer constitutes having a silencer.. so i guess that means have that solid lump of titanium that i plan to turn into baffles constitutes me having a silencer. i think they didn't understand what i said, oh wells. Their answer is the same position that they have always taken, namely a silencer part is a silencer. Really you need to ask a different question, specifically at what point does a lump of metal become a silencer part. I'd expect that their answer would be that they can't answer that because of too many variables and for you to send them drawings / plans / a better description of the item you want them to classify. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
