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Posted: 7/15/2014 2:36:03 AM EDT
If you've followed the work in the 12ga FH thread you've seen  585 HE cartridge and its development.
And you've seen some of the  24ga From Hell work, and both are related as to bore size.

585HE been put in different kinds of guns, and tested it with 650gr  bullet over 3000 fps as heavy
load to test the brass, and Bertram in Australia  made large run of 585HE cases last year
and  made a run this year of many thousands more. These are cases tested with the  heavy loads.
Also for lighter game like deer and hogs and target fun, it is found that some of  400gr- 560gr
58cal Minie bullets work great in  585HE and 24ga FH..

The barrel of our 585HE is .585" bore and rifled 24ga bore, are same size. And some of the 58cal
Minie bullets available to buy or cast are  .585-.687"  and work in the 24ga case fine.
Now we found a fast, easy way to get 24ga brass cases,  just get 577NE brass and reduce
the rim from .750" to 24ga size of .720" and stamp 20ga on the head. Using  3"  577 brass.
We made 24ga chamber for 3" case, brass  fits and the regular 24ga  2.5" plastic works also.



Below picture shows our 585HE  next to 505 Gibbs, it has same overall  loaded length as a Gibbs.
Holds up to 190gr ball powder under bullets...And any gun that can be set up for Gibbs can feed
the 585HE. The long bolt actions work, like Enfield, BBK, Savage, Ruger, MRC PH, etc,
and it is tested in break actions and falling block actions..

First picture is the 585HE next to 505 Gibbs.

Second  representative of some of guns  have tested it in.

Third picture is of the the first 585HE done and shooting in Australia, nice looking Ruger #1.Ed

..

.

.


The 585 HE is listed in the wildcat section, page 651  of the Ammo Encyclopedia, Third Edition.
It also was in the First and Second Editions.
Link Posted: 7/16/2014 8:39:34 PM EDT
[#1]


Great work, Ed.

I'm looking at the .585 case and wondering just how much black powder I could stuff in there under a 750-800gr cast bullet...thinking along the lines of an 'ultimate' buffalo gun...maybe a High Wall with enough barrel to bring it to 18 pounds or so.

It would make a great range toy and would also make great big holes in any unfortunate critter I pointed it at

Link Posted: 7/17/2014 1:55:33 AM EDT
[#2]
The 4  black substitute,  54cal pellets, I put in with minie bullets weigh  176gr.

Case Should hold about any amount of black you can stand.

Like 150 gr under a long solid heavy bullet. More under a

lighter minie..Black would Work in 24ga brass too.

Case being super strong never wear it out with black..Ed

Link Posted: 7/18/2014 2:05:47 AM EDT
[#3]


Thanks Ed.

Not sure I have the finances to take on a project like this without selling off something else, gonna have to think about it for a bit.



Link Posted: 7/18/2014 12:58:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Guys can have their smiths do them on an Enfield action bolt gun for a

fraction of what others charge for big caliber guns,  Ed
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 3:06:58 PM EDT
[#5]
Here are pictures of a couple of economical guns guys
have set up without spending thousands.

First is a 24ga FH set up in a Mossy 390 bolt gun, it was
originally a 16ga, and we put on heavy thumbhole stock.



Second is a 585HE in an Enfield with heavy walnut stock,
with extra recoil lug bedded in the forearm, with WIN style
safety, sporterized bolt handle.... Ed


Link Posted: 7/23/2014 4:36:22 PM EDT
[#6]
I'm afraid to ask - would that fit in a Mosin?
Link Posted: 7/24/2014 3:02:59 AM EDT
[#7]
Just fit with a little work, as a singleshot only.

Strong enough to hold heavy loads ok.Ed
Link Posted: 7/24/2014 3:10:12 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Just fit with a little work, as a singleshot only.

Strong enough to hold heavy loads ok.Ed
View Quote


Too long to fit in the magazine?  It's already set up to feed rimmed rounds.
Link Posted: 7/24/2014 10:29:50 PM EDT
[#9]
Yes on a Mosin you can rework the top to load the long cases from the top, but the magazine box

and the bottim of the action can't be opened enough to handle our loaded cases .

Cases loaded are 3.9" long. We are going to do one here soon.Ed
Link Posted: 7/24/2014 10:32:44 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yes on a Mosin you can rework the top to load the long cases from the top, but the magazine box

and the bottim of the action can't be opened enough to handle our loaded cases .

Cases loaded are 3.9" long. We are going to do one here soon.Ed
View Quote


Sweet!  Antique 24 ga....
Link Posted: 7/25/2014 6:54:27 PM EDT
[#11]
Now that lloaded length  quoted is with longest bullets in brass case , we use shorter bullets

but the length is 3.5" or so and is still too long for the magazine, And rim to big for magazine.

The rim is also much bigger, actualy bigger  than the boltl, so we will  rework

the front half of the bore in the action to handlle the rim, like was done on the

old Mausers made into shotgun calibers. Only with 24ga in the Mosin we still have

all the oriiginal bolt lugs making contact for great strength.  ED
Link Posted: 8/5/2014 10:26:25 PM EDT
[#12]
They put some of the 585HE bolt guns in composite and Hogue
stocks, and they are rugged for extreme weather. And they
grip nice with good pistol grip.Stocks are decent price , they have
aluminum pillars and/or aluminum bedding blocks.
And with their hollow butts very easy to add weight to take up
recoil. If lead and epoxy added to a complete fill of the hollow,
butt,  too much weight, so I found a nice cheap substitute.
We using rubber coated computer mouse balls that we have bunch of.
They are steel with rubber coating, and the right weight.
They add just the right weight and and wedge in good.
Don't rattle with rubber coating, and we hold them in tight with
a piece of dense foam under butt pad.



We get asked about how much speed potential we have.  
We start by mentioning  585HE cases can hold 190 gr of ball powder
with the bullets loaded out longer. And The 24ga FH cases can
hold 140gr. The Enfield pictured below,  I use as one of my
585HE test guns.



And more fun shooting, using a pistol grip on one of the
585HE falling block test guns. Heavy loads try to spin us
around like merrygoround.. Ed


Link Posted: 8/5/2014 11:39:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:  And more fun shooting, using a pistol grip on one of the
585HE falling block test guns. Heavy loads try to spin us
around like merrygoround.. Ed

http://www.gunownerstv.com/585tact.jpg
View Quote


Ok, you did that for a laugh.  Post the video.
Link Posted: 8/7/2014 5:09:10 AM EDT
[#14]
Sorry no video, all I can do mostly is a few pictures.

And that action then was put on a Compstock to test how
the stock reduced recoil. Then they traded it off.Ed
Link Posted: 8/13/2014 1:05:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Here is the picture of that FBW falling block in Hogue Knoxx Compstock.




Here is picture of our 585 with the CEB bullets.




Here is picture of  24ga FH in 87WIN.


Link Posted: 8/14/2014 11:23:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Do you have a website for the cartridge with info about where I could get one of them? Also where can I get dies and a bullet mold for it?
Link Posted: 8/15/2014 3:14:11 AM EDT
[#17]
Part of info on the thread, for more  you can email me.

[email protected]

WE have list where you can get  dies, cases,

barrels, etc. We have load data..ED
Link Posted: 8/19/2014 9:15:04 PM EDT
[#18]
You can get moulds on Gunbroker, from Lyman, from Lee.
Can get slugs and bullets on Gunbroker
We and CH4D have dies. MgGowen has barrels,

Here is picture of 585HE with 24ga FH ...
Both use same bullets/slugs, same bore barrels.
Main use difference,  24ga FH  easy setup in break
actions and 585HE in bolt actions and falling blocks.



Picture of  non-discarding 585/24ga sabot cup I found that holds
458 bullets and slugs tight. It had hammerhead type slug in it that
was pulled out, wouldn't stay in tight after pulled. Sabot was a loose fit
in 20ga, though made for 20ga, but small, so I shrunk the bottom rib,
fits perfect, super tight, in 24ga and 585HE.  A  press in  fit gives
good resistance for good ignition.



For ease of getting actions in stocks I like composites.Theyneed weight, so;
Here is easy way to weight plastic stocks with hollow butts,  use  rubber
coated computer mouse balls, weight comes out perfect without being  
too heavy if using that much lead.And coating keeps them quiet, and
we hold them in with piece dense foam under butt pad....Ed






Link Posted: 8/22/2014 11:55:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Where does one get a 24ga barrel?
Link Posted: 8/23/2014 12:12:11 PM EDT
[#20]
Uses same rifled barrel as all  577/585 rifles,

like our 585HE, like the 577NE.

They got some here. Ed
Link Posted: 8/26/2014 5:37:44 PM EDT
[#21]
The 585 cases have a diameter that works with regular bolt guns,  
without extreme machining on the bolt, as opposed to 577NE and Trex.
Here is picture of a case held in a Ruger bolt, for example..



And our case is large enough capacity to get the power, without being an
oversize, soft case. Thicksided  cases relative to size of the case are much
harder to harden the heads and the lower body back up  to proper strength.
because of the extreme annealling needed, in the drawing
and heading operations in the manufacturing process.
Our cases are made with same cups and draws as the ultra high pressure
Cheytac cases, and our real high pressure tests show they perform with
no extraction problems.



Here is picture of a O/U I had top barrel sleeved with smooth tube, and use
the 585HE in it with lightweight, hollowbase Minie bullets. Shoots about as
accurate as foster slugs in a 12ga. Bottom barrel is 3.5" 12ga smooth.



Here is side view with some in # 31 holders.No special holders needed.
Plain old #31 holders. .Notice how uniform belts are on the new
shiny ones. Darker ones are ones I made years ago.  

 

Our moderate loads are still more tham 577NEs. We've used moderate
loads in singleshots that we mono-blocked barrels into and the cases fall
out after firing. Here are couple a nice singles with 585HE  in them.





Link Posted: 9/4/2014 9:24:08 PM EDT
[#22]
Here is a 58cal sabot by Hornady that uses  .451" and .452" pistol
bullets that will fit in our 585HE and 24ga FH. Used originally for ML.
Wedges real tight fit in brass cases for good ignition.



Our 585 and 24ga cases work for black powder  loads using .585" Minie  
Bullets also. Here is picture sectioned 585 case with 4 Pyrodex 54 cal
pellets stacked behind a 440 gr Minie  Bullet.Goes over 2500.
Can be loaded down with 3 pellets and 24ga cushion wad.




Here is an innovation in a 585HE Falling Block we did. It's in a
one piece thumbhole rifle stock. Nice to handle and shoots heavy
loads a comfortable as a weighted bolt action gun does..
It is a  FBW brand.



Here is a bunch of .585"  barrels we have, the wrapped ones are slow
twist just for guys doing 585HE and 24ga FH  guns to use Minie bullets
for deer, hogs, target, and plain ole fun using black or smokeless.Ed


Link Posted: 9/8/2014 5:47:49 AM EDT
[#23]
First AUS buffalo killed by 585HE. By Tankunter with his Ruger #1.

If you use closeup on picture, you see loaded round on the buffs hide

next to the 585HE Ruger #1.... A nice heavy barreled gun..Ed




I put the 585 in a Savage 112, lots of room lengthwise,  figuring out an
extractor is a  problem, but then got a look at the savage 212, the 12 ga
one with big diameter bolt and locking lugs. Its locking lugs are bigger
than the lugs in a big PH bolt action. So one day will do one
on a Savage 212, and adjusting extractor to fit no problem...Ed


Link Posted: 9/16/2014 9:35:22 PM EDT
[#24]
For 24ga FH,  picture of way to get a good plastic seal to use in behind
a .585" Minie bullet for 24ga fH work, especially with our slower powder
loads where we use more powder and no stack of wads. WE cut a
BPI 24 ga brush wad in two lesving out the middle. makes two wads
each with a protrusion that goes up in the base of the Minies perfect.



First shipment, barrels from McGowen, with other barrels we already had..
We got most of the McGowens profiled and some are straight blanks.
Others we have before shipment  are the slow twist and smooth...
Barrels work for 24ga FH and for our 585 HE.
Shown behind are some of the cases and die sets.



Here is picture of an Enfield and a BBK in Hogue recoil
reducing stocks. These stocks are the rubber coated ones with
the easy to grip, nice pistol grip.Both have Mcgowen 26 inch barrels,
1 to 20 twist, barrels are heavy profile and taper
to .980 inch at the muzzle.



Here is a visual comparison of why I really like Enfields and
Rugers for big bore work. An Enfield on the left(Ruger built same)
built built much stronger, simpler to put barrels in actions,
without the wall in the middle of front reciever. Easier
to shape breaches to feed big cases, so they don't hang up.
Left lug longer and forward,  so with more metal forward on the left
side of the bolt face,simpler to do bolt faces to hold
bigger cases...Ed


Link Posted: 9/22/2014 8:52:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Here is picture of the 585HE in a Montana Rifle Co. PH action.
The double stack factory mag box for the 505 Gibbs they make works ok.



We also had guy show us how the case can work for a
high energy subsonic, real high energy for subsonic cases,
with a 1600 gr at 1050 fps. 400O ft lbs. The 585HE Whisper.
Anyone   with some way overbore 14.9 mm necked
cases on huge actions, can make case chamber inserts for
using our case to fire subsonic  And still   fire 650gr or 750 gr
at high speeds.Many who  can't get  14.5 Russian cases, use ours in
same gun  with inserts.




A Break action I like, we did one on a CBC by mono-blocking a 585
barrel, in 585HE, set up especially for  Minie bullets of 440 to 540 gr.
Have since after a few months changed it to a
24ga FH by setting barrel back,  and rechambering, still
great for same weight and style bullets, but can be
used in shotgun only areas. As the barrel is stamped 24 GA.Ed




Link Posted: 9/30/2014 6:38:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Here is some math to show why I really like really big bores.
There is term called Average Barrel Pressure, which is the average of
all the pressures in a barrel, from the start where you have highest,
called peak pressure. to the lowest at the muzzle when bullet exits.
For high powered rifles average barrel pressure  run 15-18000 psi.

There is a formula that can be used to get Average barrel pressure
fairly close if you know the muzzle energy.

We multiply ME times 12 and divide by  barrel cross section x length.
We simplified formula to get the 12 figure, It is inverse of the bore dia x 5
For the 585 it comes out about 10

Example a 458Win usually loaded to 5000 ft lbs, say in a 24" bbl.

ABP  = ( 5000 ft lbs  x 12)  divided by  (.17 sg in x 24")  =  15,000 psi

Now you see there isn't a lot of room for big  gains, as it would take
peak pressures damaging to brass and gun, to get say 50% increase.

Now example of  585HE in the 26" bbl ,we have, say a 7,000 ft lb l mild load,
a real moderate load in this case. Could use 10 in place of 12,
but kept it all simple

ABP  =  (7000 ft lb x 12)  divided by (.27 sg in x 26")  =  12000 psi

The bigger bore allows for a much larger potential,
a 50% gain is easy to do.Ed

Link Posted: 10/12/2014 3:32:34 PM EDT
[#27]
In above math, it works for lower pressures used in shotgun loads also.

Like our 24ga FH. Say you have a 2000 ft lb load in a thin Magtech 24ga
brass case  In a regular barreled 24ga gun.
And  we  upgrade brass and set up a  26" heavier barrel gun.

ABP= (2000 x 12) divided by ( .27 sq in x 26") = 4800 psi

The heavier rifled 585/24ga barrels we have and the cases can take rifle
pressures, so say we have average barrel pressure  12,000 psi.

So you can increase energy in this instance  2.5 times(12000 divided
by 4800) to 5000 ft lbs,  In a 24ga!!!  Why we call it 24ga FH,
Here is pic of one  we doing with monoblocked in barrel.Ed



Link Posted: 10/12/2014 3:41:28 PM EDT
[#28]
   OUCH!  
Link Posted: 10/16/2014 11:43:35 PM EDT
[#29]
Oh it is not bad except for the deer or hogs on the recieving end.
That thumbhole stock, weight in the stock, thick barrel gives 12lb
gun that shoots easy, even with 5000 ft lb load.

More about increasing power, In thin brass case a 440gr slug goes
1500, with about 2000 ft lbs,  This is  with thin brass but to get
this speed, brass expand a lot and hard to resize without crumpling
the cases. And using better heavier brass , same bullet, increasing speed
to 1750 fps increases energy 50%, same bullet going  2000 about doubles
energy. And going to 2300 which good brass holds ok, resizes ok, gives
2  1/2 times the energy. Making  a relatively smaller bore shotgun compared
to 20, 16, 12ga, with 458WIN power. A good reason to call it
24ga From Hell..Ed
Link Posted: 10/26/2014 6:45:45 AM EDT
[#30]
Here is picture of 585HE 100 cases a guy got   loaded, CEB solid nose bullets
and hollowpoints. This bullet is a turned solid with wide meplat
or wide hollowpoint. .



Our 585 caliber is modern bolt action continuance of the 577 Nitro
Express rimmed case,  that many big game hunters like, usually
set up in double rifles. It has an interesting history, from the old 24ga
size to 577NE, to 585 Nyati  with G&A picture of Ross Seyfreid
shooting one in a Ruger #1 under recoil knocking his shooting glasses
off, to the Trex of internet fame knocking guys over with recoil,
to our 585HE the strongest yet.

The 577NE is an offshoot of  24 gauge caliber paper cases, only they went
eventially to brass cases. Back in the 1860-70s, starting first with short
cases and black powder,  cases built like shotgun cases, called the
577 Snider, then going to coiled brass cases, still with black powder,
then on to drawn brass cases, called 577 BP Express. then to 3"
and other longer cases with smokeless. The Snider started out with a bullet
of .570" diameter and through the progression to the 577NE bullet
diameter ended up at .585". This general bore diameter of cartridge guns
and muzzle loaders, it is really interesting on how they developed
and were used by military and then hunters over the years. The Snider
was necked down to make the 577-450 , a military round used all
over the British Empire, by the tens of millions.

Bases of both 24ga and 577NE are about the same. Now we have made a
24ga FH, a  slight regression to earlier times, by  taking 577NE brass, and
reducing rim diameter to 24ga specs. Two minute job. And
stamp the caseheads 24 ga.

For shotgun upgrading in power and range, It is all about increasing
the power in easy to find brass cases, stronger actions,  and finding
reasonable price  rifled barrels. Same barrels we found for 585, work for 24ga.
The 577NE brass we make 24ga drawn cases from, for example are
about a third the cost of  600NE brass, or getting turned 24ga cases made.
We could use 24ga thin cases but they are a pain, expand way too much,
with slug loads which makes resizing without crumpling cases a problem.

Perfect with Minie bullets. Perfect for deer and hogs, bear, etc.
Great for slug hunting in shotgun only areas. We mark barrels 24ga
and cases 24. A decent case that is complimentary to our 585HE....Ed

Link Posted: 11/5/2014 6:30:02 AM EDT
[#31]
Here is a different look at 585 sabots holding 458cal bullets.
Sabots hold leafd as well as jacketed.



Here is a long turned streamlined bullet in our 585.




Anyone wanting to import barrels, actions, cases, etc into Canada from
here can work through Prophet River Firearms in Lloydminster, AB.

The here being the US, as well as our group with barrels, dies, cases,  
and McGowen with .585 barrels  in stock, CH4D with 585HE dies
in stock, gunshops with # 31 shellholders.
And later few retail outlets setup with cases in stock... . Ed
Link Posted: 11/5/2014 2:04:18 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Here is a different look at 585 sabots holding 458cal bullets.
Sabots hold leafd as well as jacketed.

http://www.gunownerstv.com/458-585f.jpg

Here is a long turned streamlined bullet in our 585.

http://www.gunownerstv.com/barlong.jpg


Anyone wanting to import barrels, actions, cases, etc into Canada from
here can work through Prophet River Firearms in Lloydminster, AB.

The here being the US, as well as our group with barrels, dies, cases,  
and McGowen with .585 barrels  in stock, CH4D with 585HE dies
in stock, gunshops with # 31 shellholders.
And later few retail outlets setup with cases in stock... . Ed
View Quote


You going to take some of those long high BC bullets to a 1000 yd match?
Link Posted: 11/5/2014 9:25:27 PM EDT
[#33]
Those high BC bullets should make fair showing in a heavy barrel, long

barreled, gun..  Even spire pointed regular weight bullets, like 750gr

should do tight groups at 1000yds.  Got a guy is planning on doing a heavy

barreled singleshot to test  accuracy.Ed
Link Posted: 12/6/2014 3:34:58 AM EDT
[#34]
Guys with russian 14.5mm PTRDs, who are tired of monkeying with steel cases,

expensive cases, can make chamber insert and use our cases,  In a 5 foot long

PTRD barrel we can get  650gr spire point  over 3300; pictures of insert model later..Ed
Link Posted: 12/13/2014 9:45:18 PM EDT
[#35]
Another application for our 585 HE is for guys with the 14.5mm
PTRDs, to use our case with chamber insert. In many places  14.5
cases are scarce, real expensive, as well as most 14.5mm cases
being steel are not the easiest to resize/reload. Our case sizes
like regular cases and can be easily reloaded many times.

And in a PTRD with almost a  5 foot long barrel  can get 650gr
spitzer bullet to the same speed the 14.5mm gets a 900 gr using
3 times as much powder. 3300 fps.  Or get a 900gr at 2800.
Great possibilities for fun shooting. And tactical use in a place
where it would be useful to reload in the operations field, where
steel cases are scarce. A 100 cases do over 2000 reloads.



I  like Enfields to put our 585HEs in, for reasonable cost guns. .
Here is inexpensive way to fancy up the Enfield Bolt handle by
cutting the dogleg part of the old handle off and welding on
inexpensive contoured handles I found, one of which is like
Ruger 77 handle, one on  the right . Something even a novice
like me can do.....



A lot of guys are crazy about CEB bullets. Here are light 450gr
ones in our 24ga FH. The hollowpoint  can range in weight 450gr
to 700gr.. The 24ga FH is nice complement to our
585HE for the shotgun only deer hunters... Ed



Link Posted: 12/19/2014 5:04:15 PM EDT
[#37]
Even with my bad eyes, big enough so I can't miss. Ed
Link Posted: 12/31/2014 5:15:33 AM EDT
[#38]
For lightweight plinking, deer hunting, etc, in 585HE as well as 24ga FH
here is picture of 58cal Hornady sabot that holds  .451/.452" light
bullets 225 to 300 gr.  A way to shoot targets economically. Low recoil
but a big bang and satisfaction. That sabot is one made for ML, but
with .452" bullet in it is a real tight fit in brass cases, to stay
in place and give good ignition. A 250 gr bullet would go about
mach 4 with a top load..



Here is what 585 bull barrel, target blank looks like, 1 5/8" OD and 32" long.
It'll go in heavy action of some kind. 4th one from the left. The one in yellow
sleave on top, is a heavy contoured one with muzzle of  .980" ..The 5th, 6th,
7th blanks on bottom are straight  1.375"  585 regular twist blanks.
One in paper wrapper is slow twist 585 barrel...Ed

Link Posted: 1/26/2015 11:33:49 AM EDT
[#39]
Here is picture, nice cast bullet I like for the 585HE and 24ga FH.
It is .585" diameter and  650 gr and these particular ones are a
hard lead alloy, plus they've been heatreated. They are about as
hard as copper jacketed softs. These have a flat base, and
fairly streamlined..



But to penetrate good and do great damage to game or target they
can be soft lead and hollowbase like Minie Bullets. Here is picture
of timber drilled through with .585 soft lead Minie from 585HE.
Picture is the back of 6x6 timbers where Minie bullets came out. Ed



Link Posted: 1/26/2015 1:37:35 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:  Here is picture, nice cast bullet I like for the 585HE and 24ga FH.
It is .585" diameter and  650 gr and these particular ones are a
hard lead alloy, plus they've been heatreated. They are about as
hard as copper jacketed softs. These have a flat base, and
fairly streamlined..

http://www.gunownerstv.com/585castbul.jpg

But to penetrate good and do great damage to game or target they
can be soft lead and hollowbase like Minie Bullets. Here is picture
of timber drilled through with .585 soft lead Minie from 585HE.
Picture is the back of 6x6 timbers where Minie bullets came out. Ed

http://www.gunownerstv.com/58calpen.jpg
View Quote


That box is a chiropractor's wet dream.  Have you gotten around to building a suppressor yet?
Link Posted: 2/12/2015 1:07:25 PM EDT
[#41]
No I haven't, but we can load heavy bullets subsonic,

and there is some  talking about subsonic and suppressor

but haven't heard of any suppressor yet. I guess they need a licence

to do one.Ed
Link Posted: 2/13/2015 2:46:44 PM EDT
[#42]
In  Canada there are 3 guys there now setting up 585HEs,
and one setting up 24ga FH. Another friend setting up a 585HE
handed out a bunch of cases and info sheets at the SCI convention.
We are getting some more reamers made. Some more dies sent
here. Another pallet load of cases  coming.

Here is picture  of a light spitzer bullet in the 24ga FH case,
will work in 585 also. Good for hunting and medium range
target work.



Here is picture of 585HE we did in the FBW with regular two
piece stock.We put a tenon on the forearm to wedge into the
front of the action below the barrel and a tight barrel band
on the front. Ed



Link Posted: 2/13/2015 2:52:37 PM EDT
[#43]
Y'all should seek sponsorship from the North American Chiropractor's Association.  
Link Posted: 3/2/2015 1:29:44 AM EDT
[#44]
Here is comparison of our 585HE and Trex case, and while
we have barrels of cases and more coming and many available
in stock in AUS, many are finding Trex cases scarce...



Here is picture of a neat falling block that could work for our
585HE with little work, the Wickcliff.




Here is picture of the singlestack mag box we built for Enfields
fitted to the bottom of BBK action.Very little changing and
it fits a lot of different actions, as a fixed magazine, with its
own feed lips,and we load from the top.Ed



Link Posted: 3/25/2015 3:47:12 AM EDT
[#45]
Here is picture of a 585HE we did in a Mauser 98 as a
singleshot test gun.  We used a composite stock we
adapted to fit action. Weighted to 12 lbs.



And speaking of singleshots a fellow in the Yukon is
just finishing up one in a Ruger #1.

Here is one reason to like 585 calibers is bullet varieties,
this picture is only about half the bullets and slugs
we know of, and most can easily found. Ed


Link Posted: 4/20/2015 5:55:34 PM EDT
[#46]
There is  couple 585 videos  on Swann Gunsmithing's Facebook site;

Of our 585HE in first Ruger #1,  that was done in Australia, set up

for the poster Tankhunter on the AR big bore forums. That gun killed

the first buffalo that I posted picture of above. You can go

direct to the page and click on the videos to watch the test firings..

https://www.facebook.com/swanbarrels/videos


Here is picture our 585HE in a Montana PH action in a MPI stock, with the

style of a CZ stock, that a guy is setting up. The stock  will be finished brown

and metal finished with a Gun Kote finish...Ed

Link Posted: 6/13/2015 10:45:02 PM EDT
[#47]
One of the first of  modern 585 caliber wildcats, since WW2,  the 575 Miller Greiss Magnum,
was first in records in the fifties,  It was made from BMG brass shortened  to 2.70" long
and necked up from 50 cal to .585" with what looks li\ke a little sharper shoulder..

They rebated the rim quite a ways to .618" to maybe  fit 98 Mauser bolt.Used a special action.
Listed as a shooting 750gr bullet about 2400 fps. It holds about 150gr of ball powder under
a 750 gr bullet, maybe little less than 3" 50cal spotter case,  where our 585HE holds
180gr under a 750gr'.

We made one for experimenting on a full length BMG case.With rim left same as the base
and would need a BMG sized bolt and action. I'm glad to be a big bore wildcatter,
and happy to be in the company of big bore nuts, old and new. Years ago when
guys did big wildcats they took what was available, to rework, and maybe
they could have used the 3" spotter case if they could have found  couple barrels full.

But it takes a lot of work to reform cases that much, with the multiple dies,
multiple annealings and case trimming and extreme reworking of regular rifle actions,
which is why I like our cases, simple and straight, any regular long bolt action,
falling block, break action, etc, good for dozen or more heavy loadings.

In making our 585HE we made it a size, a new belted size, to fit regular size guns,
not BMG actions,that didn't have to be used from a tripod, and could be put in a favorite,
the Ruger #1, other falling blocks, without taking metal out of the feed trough.
And to get the same and much more powder space like a cut back,
real short, fat, BMG wildcatted cases to 585, we made longer case and worked
with a group buy to get a factory run. We thank gun nuts for the help.

Here is picture from the great site, cartridgecollector dot net, of the M&G Mag .Ed

Link Posted: 7/6/2015 12:39:42 AM EDT
[#48]
Probably  first 375 caliber cartridge made from  585HE necked down,  the 375 Warlord.

Guy did a real nice job, with what looks similiar to a Weatherby style shoulder.

Kinda outdoes Weatherby & Cheytac. We have cases with no headstamps for wildcatters.

First picture I got sent me  today off of  facebook and this one is from the great sniperforums.





Another fellow is planning on shortening the 585HE  to maybe 2.4",  for use Marlins and Henrys,

and other leverguns, redoing their 45-70s. With the belt they will have good headspace control.

Without a rim that takes up circular space, say like our 24ga FH, a 585 bore,  but which is perfect

with a rim for break actions like our 24ga FH in a Magtech...Ed

Link Posted: 9/6/2015 4:49:53 PM EDT
[#49]
Sorry to be away so long. Health and money problems.
Here is how the top of the singlestack magazine looks that we
made to use in Enfields and other bolt actions. The lips that hold the
cases are springy, and we can load it from the top. The inside of action
below feed rails are relieved a little and that allows feed  lips to
move and spring and  work ok.



Here are couple 24ga FHs  break actions, a CBC with  monoblocked
585 barrel in it, and a guys NEF he had a 585 barrel monoblocked in.
The 585 barrels are perfect fit for 24ga,  and 585 Minie Bullets
are a perfect for barrel and 24ga case fit.







Link Posted: 9/24/2015 4:52:20 AM EDT
[#50]

Here is picture of a lightweight Barnes bullet in 24ga FH.
Guys cut the back off of  750gr bullet off to get 500gr weight.



Here is picture 58 cal Minie slug that's little long on the side  for our 12ga
sabot, with the front of the slug above the grooves swaged to fit in
sabot. The swaged front third of the slug fits next to the internal ridge in
sabot and the sabot doesn't bulge out.Just run front into a die
and punch it back out.




And some info about 12ga FH and other hopped up shotgun slug loads,
You know we like to use the  rifle, IE slower than shotgun, powders.
We like to use IMR 4759 for some loads and RE17 for others where
we have room for larger charges. Those two powders are ignited ok in large
diameter cases like 12ga, 10ga, 16ga, etc, without needing BMG primers.
But we have always been looking for easy to ignite powders of the RE17
type, when cold, that has a speed between IMR  4759 and the RE17.  
RE17 uses different process to put the deterrents in the powder to control
speeds, which allows much easier ignition, compared to big majority of rifle
powders with all the deterrent on the outside.

There are some out there  made by Nitrochemie  in Switzerland, who makes
RE17, RE26, RE33, etc,  for Alliant. It's the ' RELOAD SWISS'  brand available
for those in UK and Europe, They are called  RS 40, about same speed
as RE12,  RS 50 & 52,  same speed as RE15,  RE60 & 62 same as RE17.
Also one ' Vihta Vouri ' powder  called  TR140 available  over there,
that Nitrochemie made..

Many guys can't get IMR 4759 anymore, some can't get RE17.
I'd like to get some of  RS 40-50-52 powders or V V  TR140
into the states, would really be great help for hairy slug load work.
And guys in UK/EU now can load some real hairy, slow powder, slug loads,
even though not having IMR 4759....Ed

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