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Posted: 8/4/2012 10:51:56 PM
[Last Edit: 8/4/2012 11:10:57 PM by MOS11C]
Originally Posted By JonJR:
Originally Posted By MOS11C:
Originally Posted By JonJR:
PS...I know there are some accurate AKs and now optics are easier to mount but the ergonomics/controls are still poor. Also the mags are bulky. For me its just not a tier one weapon for current times. That's just the way I feel about them. I dont want this to turn into an AK debate. They are just not for me  I'm glad that you are not buying them. The more for the rest of us.  I have 4 already and do like them but IMHO they are not as good as a quality AR15/M4. I know the AK74 545 have good accuracy even with cheap wolf ammo but the ergonomics and mags are still not the best. If youre current military you may come across group guys. Its rare to see one with an AK. I have seen and worked with a lot and never see them with AKs in theater or on training. You may find some with a AK but I have never seen a current group guy with an AK. Maybe if they are trying to blend in to lacal population but as a choice they mostly use M4s or something other than and AK. I've had group guys tell me they like the Scar17s and hate the Tavor. The reason given for the Tavor was the erconomics and I think he said something about poor action drill type problems. This is the same reason why I dont like AKs. Oh crap Im turning this into an AK debate 
Again its just my 02 ok |
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Posted: 8/5/2012 8:38:10 PM
Originally Posted By JonJR:
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
I would consider adding a Larue OBR for a little extended range precision. Looks like a nice well rounded collection. Personally I would probably use the 10" AR for a PDW, as I have spent alot more time on the AR/M16 platform. I dont think an AR10 get down to 24 inches but Im not an expert on the AR10 The OSW is 24 inches with is perfect for a PDW or for PSD work for long range work I have my 18 inch DSA FAL but need more time with it at longer range. It does give me good enough groups and is more reliable than an AR10 I am considering an AR10 though based on your own experiences or other, empirical data? A PredatOBR would be great for long range work. |
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Posted: 8/5/2012 9:30:24 PM
Im thinking of trying out an AR 308 weapon
I think thats on the list |
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Nameless_Hobo
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Posted: 8/6/2012 6:32:18 AM
I am curious, where are you getting your "facts" from? Two that stand out are "Bolt guns need to be cleaned every few rounds to be accurate," (blatantly untrue) and the FAL is more reliable than an AR10. (Also untrue, but I will give you, can vary by situations.)
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Posted: 8/6/2012 9:52:49 AM
Originally Posted By Nameless_Hobo:
I am curious, where are you getting your "facts" from? Two that stand out are "Bolt guns need to be cleaned every few rounds to be accurate," (blatantly untrue) and the FAL is more reliable than an AR10. (Also untrue, but I will give you, can vary by situations.) never said the FAL was mor accurate. The AR10 is but my DSA Para is pretty accurate and accurate enough. And the FAL is very reliable and compact if you have a para. I picked up 2 bolt guns in the past and after about 10 rounds I noticed a drop in accuracy. could have just been me. Bolt guns are good weapons but I prefer semi auto. Maybe a bolt gun for longer range 1K+ but for 800 to 1k I think semi is fine. The thing that is lacking in my collection is something for long range 1k+ shooting. But, I'll have to work on that at another time. I'm just looking for CQB to mid range weapons. On my list for CQB and mid range weapons are: AR10 CQB weapons that I plan on SBRing: Robinson XCR Krink in 762x39 - want this so I can use a drum with it PS90 |
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Nameless_Hobo
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Posted: 8/7/2012 3:21:52 AM
[Last Edit: 8/7/2012 3:26:38 AM by Nameless_Hobo]
I never mentioned accuracy WRT the FAL and AR10. I was calling in to question the statement that the FAL is more reliable than AR pattern rifles.
You do realize that most every precision shooter leaves their rifles dirty? It is a rather commonly accepted idea that cleaning a bolt gun regularly does not improve accuracy. You and your two rifles must be the only ones out of millions who have found cleaning after every 10 rounds to result in more accuracy. I myself clean my Savage infrequently. Anyway, to address your latest question, if you are wanting a semi-auto precision rifle for under 800 yards, your best bet is going to be something like a LMT MWS or a Larue. If you want to be really high speed, you can look into calibers like 6.5 Creedmore, instead of .308. Those two are the big names in .308 AR pattern rifles. I like the MWS personally. Also: Krinks are cool. So are PS90s, but I wouldn't want to actually have to defend myself with either. Not a fan of the XCR. |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 7:45:38 AM
Originally Posted By Nameless_Hobo:
I never mentioned accuracy WRT the FAL and AR10. I was calling in to question the statement that the FAL is more reliable than AR pattern rifles. You do realize that most every precision shooter leaves their rifles dirty? It is a rather commonly accepted idea that cleaning a bolt gun regularly does not improve accuracy. You and your two rifles must be the only ones out of millions who have found cleaning after every 10 rounds to result in more accuracy. I myself clean my Savage infrequently. Anyway, to address your latest question, if you are wanting a semi-auto precision rifle for under 800 yards, your best bet is going to be something like a LMT MWS or a Larue. If you want to be really high speed, you can look into calibers like 6.5 Creedmore, instead of .308. Those two are the big names in .308 AR pattern rifles. I like the MWS personally. Also: Krinks are cool. So are PS90s, but I wouldn't want to actually have to defend myself with either. Not a fan of the XCR. I always though that it was well known that the FAL was more reliable and durable than an AR10 but I'm not an expert on the AR10 or bolt guns. I think I would rather have a semi for 800 yards or closer shooting The 762 krink with 75 rd drum would make a great PDW as would a PS90. Why wouldn't they? why dont you like ths XCR? |
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Nameless_Hobo
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Posted: 8/7/2012 1:02:25 PM
[Last Edit: 8/7/2012 1:05:58 PM by Nameless_Hobo]
"Well known facts" tend to be myths. A good AR pattern rifle gives nothing to the reliability of any other weapon. I say this as someone who is enamored with the FAL.
The 5.7 round is a poor performer. That is my biggest argument against the PS90. It makes up for it with an extremely high cyclic rate in the P90. The PS90 doesn't. My issue with the Krink is weight and size. Same thing issue with the FAL PDW you have. (Don't get me wrong, it's a really cool rifle, but it is too big and heavy for a PDW) One of the stated design features for the "PDW" is small/light carbine. Hence why the PS90/P90/MP7/MP5K/ KAC PDW are so small. I don't like the XCR because of proprietary parts. I try not to buy guns that will likely have no parts available in 10 years. If you want my honest opinion on a PDW, I would built a lightweight 11.5 inch AR. |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 1:05:38 PM
[Last Edit: 8/7/2012 1:08:07 PM by bradpierson26]
Originally Posted By JonJR:
Originally Posted By Nameless_Hobo:
I never mentioned accuracy WRT the FAL and AR10. I was calling in to question the statement that the FAL is more reliable than AR pattern rifles. You do realize that most every precision shooter leaves their rifles dirty? It is a rather commonly accepted idea that cleaning a bolt gun regularly does not improve accuracy. You and your two rifles must be the only ones out of millions who have found cleaning after every 10 rounds to result in more accuracy. I myself clean my Savage infrequently. Anyway, to address your latest question, if you are wanting a semi-auto precision rifle for under 800 yards, your best bet is going to be something like a LMT MWS or a Larue. If you want to be really high speed, you can look into calibers like 6.5 Creedmore, instead of .308. Those two are the big names in .308 AR pattern rifles. I like the MWS personally. Also: Krinks are cool. So are PS90s, but I wouldn't want to actually have to defend myself with either. Not a fan of the XCR. I always though that it was well known that the FAL was more reliable and durable than an AR10 but I'm not an expert on the AR10 or bolt guns. maybe 15 yrs ago this was thought to be true. I think I would rather have a semi for 800 yards or closer shooting The 762 krink with 75 rd drum would make a great PDW as would a PS90. Why wouldn't they? I feel a 75rnd drum would be awkward and unwieldy indoors. PS90 shoots an anemic bullet. FA is the reason PDs use them. why dont you like ths XCR? i love them - in spite of the owner 
Originally Posted By Nameless_Hobo:
If you want my honest opinion on a PDW, I would built a lightweight 11.5 inch AR. 8" .300blk AR with RDIAS FIFY  |
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Nameless_Hobo
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Posted: 8/7/2012 1:38:14 PM
You almost did. If you are going that route, you need it suppressed too, hah. I will admit, I wasn't thinking FA when I said that.
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Posted: 8/7/2012 3:30:07 PM
[Last Edit: 8/7/2012 3:35:43 PM by JonJR]
Originally Posted By Nameless_Hobo:
"Well known facts" tend to be myths. A good AR pattern rifle gives nothing to the reliability of any other weapon. I say this as someone who is enamored with the FAL. The 5.7 round is a poor performer. That is my biggest argument against the PS90. It makes up for it with an extremely high cyclic rate in the P90. The PS90 doesn't. My issue with the Krink is weight and size. Same thing issue with the FAL PDW you have. (Don't get me wrong, it's a really cool rifle, but it is too big and heavy for a PDW) One of the stated design features for the "PDW" is small/light carbine. Hence why the PS90/P90/MP7/MP5K/ KAC PDW are so small. I don't like the XCR because of proprietary parts. I try not to buy guns that will likely have no parts available in 10 years. If you want my honest opinion on a PDW, I would built a lightweight 11.5 inch AR. well ... a PDW/PSD mission is a CQB range and made to get you out of trouble. Not stay and fight. Although I have a 10 and 7.5 upper its also good to have more fire power. 20, 30 or even 50 rds of 308 in a 2 ft package could be veryhelpful keeping the bad guys head down in a close range. It is heavier but more compact and more fire power. I guess you could go for an AR in 300 or 6.8 but the Para FAL isnt a bad PDW either. Also, a krink with 75or 100 rd drum in 762 would be very good at that too. I would be happy with a SBR AK AR or FAL in a PDW/CQB scenario. It is hard to beat a quality AR though I didnt know that about the xcr but makes sense The PS90 has its limitations also I guess. I guess a 10 or 11 inch piston AR15 is my next purchase. I dont think I need much more...damn you guys ruined the excuse I give to my wife to buy more rifles |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 8:20:32 PM
[Last Edit: 8/7/2012 8:21:54 PM by MOS11C]
Originally Posted By Nameless_Hobo:
I never mentioned accuracy WRT the FAL and AR10. I was calling in to question the statement that the FAL is more reliable than AR pattern rifles. You do realize that most every precision shooter leaves their rifles dirty? It is a rather commonly accepted idea that cleaning a bolt gun regularly does not improve accuracy. You and your two rifles must be the only ones out of millions who have found cleaning after every 10 rounds to result in more accuracy. I myself clean my Savage infrequently. I don't even remember the last time when I cleaned mine. Wrote it down some place. And this is the one that sees more action. He will tell me when I need to take out theTipton rod. 
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Posted: 8/13/2012 3:15:26 PM
[Last Edit: 8/13/2012 3:17:36 PM by JonJR]
now with updated pics
I'm thinking of putting a TR24 on my Para FAL 18 inch or 3x Mag with flip mount The POF will also have a 3x mag with flip mount in the same way as my other AR I'm also upgrading the FCGs of both ARs with either Timney or Geiselle |
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Posted: 8/14/2012 11:52:22 AM
[Last Edit: 8/14/2012 11:59:12 AM by garretts1776]
Originally Posted By JonJR:
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
I would consider adding a Larue OBR for a little extended range precision. Looks like a nice well rounded collection. Personally I would probably use the 10" AR for a PDW, as I have spent alot more time on the AR/M16 platform. I dont think an AR10 get down to 24 inches but Im not an expert on the AR10 The OSW is 24 inches with is perfect for a PDW or for PSD work for long range work I have my 18 inch DSA FAL but need more time with it at longer range. It does give me good enough groups and is more reliable than an AR10 I am considering an AR10 though *Deleted by self* -All this "tier 1 weapons" stuff is too gay to start an argument over |
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Posted: 8/14/2012 3:52:53 PM
[Last Edit: 8/14/2012 4:25:34 PM by JonJR]
just looking for more weapons...Im moving away from lesser weapons and want to get into better ones
Im considering the next 308 being the SCAR17 or Larue ORB or ? and the next 223 being the SCAR16 or GP LWRC Next suppressor is going to be a 223 or 6.8 AAC my other weapons will either be sold or given to my kids |
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Accomplice1
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Posted: 8/14/2012 6:27:37 PM
[Last Edit: 8/14/2012 11:40:00 PM by Accomplice1]
Scar in the car, Sigs in my digs...
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Furyataurus
Be a Fountain, not a drain
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Posted: 8/14/2012 7:48:32 PM
All my firearms are "go to" right off the bat.
MSAR STG-556 
My .308 5R 
HK USP 9 and USPC 40/357Sig 
Railed 336C 30-30 
870 
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Posted: 8/14/2012 11:24:13 PM
I never considered sigs ... just didnt think they were as good as an AR. They are more compact.
I think I'm going to stick with ARs, SCAR as the better platforms In 308 I think the recommended Larue or SCAR and my Para FAL will fith the medium range ticket As for long range I may go with a bolt action rifle Can anyone suggest a better platform for 223 or 308 ? |
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Accomplice1
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Posted: 8/14/2012 11:32:25 PM
[Last Edit: 8/14/2012 11:39:27 PM by Accomplice1]
Originally Posted By JonJR:
I never considered sigs ... just didnt think they were as good as an AR. They are more compact. I think I'm going to stick with ARs, SCAR as the better platforms In 308 I think the recommended Larue or SCAR and my Para FAL will fith the medium range ticket As for long range I may go with a bolt action rifle Can anyone suggest a better platform for 223 or 308 ? Sigs are solid. My go to crew Scar and Sig 556 Patrol...  |
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Posted: 8/14/2012 11:59:56 PM
Originally Posted By Accomplice1:
Originally Posted By JonJR:
I never considered sigs ... just didnt think they were as good as an AR. They are more compact. I think I'm going to stick with ARs, SCAR as the better platforms In 308 I think the recommended Larue or SCAR and my Para FAL will fith the medium range ticket As for long range I may go with a bolt action rifle Can anyone suggest a better platform for 223 or 308 ? Sigs are solid. My go to crew Scar and Sig 556 Patrol... http://i50.tinypic.com/9k6r5z.jpg I always thought Sigs were a lesser weapon compared to a quality AR (GP or DI) So, you would rather use a Sig over an AR |
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Posted: 8/15/2012 12:24:13 AM
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Accomplice1
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Posted: 8/15/2012 6:49:41 AM
[Last Edit: 8/15/2012 6:53:05 AM by Accomplice1]
My 556's would run thousands of rounds beyond the DI ARs I've had without a stoppage. Less mag, ammo, cleaning and environment sensitive in my experience. Avoid the 2009 production guns and you're good to go.
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Posted: 8/15/2012 7:24:11 AM
Originally Posted By Accomplice1:
My 556's would run thousands of rounds beyond the DI ARs I've had without a stoppage. Less mag, ammo, cleaning and environment sensitive in my experience. Avoid the 2009 production guns and you're good to go. Glad my 3 ARs are piston. The 2 in the pic on the 1st page are CMMG GP on a S&W lower and POF Are you saying that the Sig is a better weapon than a DI but not GP AR? |
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Bushmaster1984
one of the sheeple
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Posted: 8/15/2012 1:54:10 PM
[Last Edit: 8/15/2012 1:55:33 PM by Bushmaster1984]
my 2
savage scout rifle, and a BCM lightweight carbine with fixed stock missing is my 228...Im in NY and dont have a pistol permit 
I have an eberl stock pack that carries the scout and some of my essentials perfectly. |
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Posted: 8/15/2012 8:04:45 PM
Originally Posted By Bushmaster1984:
my 2 http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae18/Bushmaster1984/001.jpg savage scout rifle, and a BCM lightweight carbine with fixed stock missing is my 228...Im in NY and dont have a pistol permit
I have an eberl stock pack that carries the scout and some of my essentials perfectly. not bad brother...but you have to come down to the free states |
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