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bigkracka
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Posted: 12/27/2011 9:07:14 AM
[Last Edit: 12/27/2011 9:07:14 AM by mag162]
I was at the range today and another shooter had one, he let me shoot it. I was impressed, light and quick handling, 45deg safety, half the recoil of my DI AR and I run a VLTOR A5 buffer tube with H3 buffer. I was surprised because most Pistons are over gassed, heavy and recoil more than DI's. Anyone here have experience with them?
terral
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Posted: 12/27/2011 9:02:26 AM
its ok unless something goes wrong with it, no customer service
cptx123
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Posted: 12/27/2011 2:40:53 AM
hard to find them. I liked the one I test shot.
" I done told ya! "
DeltaBravo555
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Posted: 12/27/2011 9:13:19 AM
Originally Posted By terral:
its ok unless something goes wrong with it, no customer service


I shot a suppressed SBR XCR yesterday and I liked it more than I expected but like you mentioned, lack of customer support / limited parts availability keeps me from buying one.
mouthpiece
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Posted: 12/27/2011 9:13:31 AM
Originally Posted By terral:
its ok unless something goes wrong with it, no customer service


What kind of customer service problems did you have with your XCR?
mparker762
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Posted: 12/27/2011 9:24:12 AM
Originally Posted By mouthpiece:
Originally Posted By terral:
its ok unless something goes wrong with it, no customer service


What kind of customer service problems did you have with your XCR?


You get Customer Service like this: ...if you post a bunch of whiny petty negative stuff here or anywhere, I guaranty very slow service. I have made that a policy. (quote from Robinson Arms' owner on Robinson Arms Forum)

I have two Robinson Arms rifles, an XCR and an M96. But I can't recommend them anymore, not after reading that. That is *not* a constructive way to deal with QC problems.
DeltaBravo555
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Posted: 12/27/2011 9:36:34 AM
Originally Posted By mparker762:
Originally Posted By mouthpiece:
Originally Posted By terral:
its ok unless something goes wrong with it, no customer service


What kind of customer service problems did you have with your XCR?


You get Customer Service like this: ...if you post a bunch of whiny petty negative stuff here or anywhere, I guaranty very slow service. I have made that a policy. (quote from Robinson Arms' owner on Robinson Arms Forum)

I have two Robinson Arms rifles, an XCR and an M96. But I can't recommend them anymore, not after reading that. That is *not* a constructive way to deal with QC problems.


Link requires a log in to view but that would be a great snippit to copy and paste here if able ......
mparker762
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Posted: 12/27/2011 9:51:04 AM
The referenced quote is from a pinned post in the "Robinson Armaments" section of the Robinson Arms forum, posted on Nov 17, 2010


Dear XCR Fans:

As usual I don't have much time to bother with these sites. We've made a lot of much need changes at Robinson Armament Co. Before I address the changes, let me put things in perspective.

Robinson Armament could have made lots of money making AR-15 knockoffs. It would have been infinitely easier for us to have just made an upper receiver which would have fixed some but not all of the shortcomings of the AR-15. Instead, we ventured to make a better battle rifle. We began with the M96. The M96 was a tough project. It had a piston drive and a better bolt and ejector. However, it still retained many flaws that were inherent in Stoner's design. Many didn't buy the M96s because they were "too expensive" or "had ugly welds". Nevertheless, the M96 was a step in the right direction.

The XCR was designed almost totally from scratch. We make or have made almost every part, pin, and spring. The goals of the XCR were very ambitious. Especially, the modularity and multi-caliber aspects. I pose this question: How many other firms have really designed anything really new from scratch? FN, Remington, Bushmaster, Colt? The answer is none of them. (I must admit that at least FN has made the P90 and that 2000 Bullpup).

The fact is that almost every "new" rifle out there is based on someone else's work. The XCR is not. It is truly unique. Yes, it borrows some concepts from other rifles, but each part had to be designed without copying anything else to get the result we wanted. In short, Robinson Armament dared to challenge the establishment with a very different rifle.

Robinson Armament's efforts should have been embraced. However, from the beginning, we have nothing but crap on the internet. I distinctly remember posts on AR-15.com shortly after I announced the XCR. The post were that it was "Vaporware". Other posts exclaimed that it would never be built or never work as promised. Such posts made it very difficult to get the XCR off the ground and made people very skeptical of the new XCR.

Other posts exclaimed that we were going out of business. It seem that the whole rifle world was against us. I have often wondered why so much negativity for a new weapon platforms? It is as though people really don't want any new platforms. Thee people claim to want the best but all they do is whine. It is no wonder to me that others don't venture out with new designs - they are shot down before they begin.

It has been just over 5 years since the first XCR shipped. The XCR was not perfect and our processes and procedures for making it have not been perfect either. When we began the XCR, we had no manufacturing experience. Not only did we come up with a new and different rifle design, we had to learn to manufacture it.

I will say that learning to make the XCR has been equally or more demanding that designing it in the first place. It has taken over 5 years to get the XCR where it is. The XCR now shoots 4 calibers (we are just finishing testing 5.45x39mm). I shoots them all well. It has the best ergonomics on the planet, and the most modularity. It is also super reliable and durable.

With this background let me explain the much needed changes.

We spent much of this year retooling our shop to make XCR parts better and faster. Concurrently, we completely revamped our quality control, not only during making parts but during assembly and final testing. Every rifle that leaves our facility now is much more thoroughly tested. There should be few if any returns needed from this point forward.

In addition to making the rifle better, we have also gone through our complete staff and made the changes necessary to improve customer service which was sorely lacking. We have a completely new staff for sales and service who are eager to help. Turn around on any service problem will be very fast. To get fast service, read on.

I'd like to post just a few more comments regarding service. Some of you will not like these comments:

First, when you call for service, be polite. If you are not polite to my staff, I guaranty you will have a pleasant experience. Remember the old saying, "You can attract more files with honey that with vinegar." If you call with an attitude, my staff has been instructed to put you on the back burner. If you are nice and polite, you will get quicker service.

Second, please read the manual carefully. I know it's boring but there's important information there. Many people do not understand that you need to set the gas correctly for function and durability. It's really quite simple - put it on the setting that throws the brass 8 to 15 feet from the rifle for any given ammo. Do not just leave the gas system on the highest setting, If you do, for some ammo it will kick like hell, throw your brass 40 feet, give you trigger slap, and damage your recoil buffer (a cheap part).

Third, please send us the following information:

Name, Address, Email and Cell number;
Serial Number;
Signed Copy of your warranty Registration found in the last pages of the Operator's Manual; and
A complete description of the problem, BE BRIEF. If you write and essay about your vast knowledge of firearms base on your long time relationship with your AR-15, we won't read it.

We will authorize the return to us of part or all of your firearm. WE DO NOT PAY FOR SHIPPING TO US.

Fourth, if you post a bunch of whiny petty negative stuff here or anywhere, I guaranty very slow service. I have made that a policy. Yes, we've made lots of mistakes with service but that is behind us.
Now for some parting comments. I am very happy with the current state of the XCR. It continues to gain in popularity. A great part of our sales are to Military and Law Enforcement professionals. Though we've got the XCR to the point where is nearly perfect, we are not stopping. We will continue to perfect the platform and add accessories. Work continues on the XCR .308. It will be finished when it is perfect and we hope that will be soon.

We appreciate those who stand by and support us. They are true patriots. We have to question the motives of those who continue to tear us down on this forum. They cannot stop us. Their petty feeble minds are easily exposed. The XCR will gain momentum until it covers the whole earth. There is no other platform like it and it is the best.


Sincerely,

Alex J. Robinson
General Manager
Robinson Armament Co.

P.S. Don't expect me to read and respond to this post. It is for your information only.

WholeBunches
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Posted: 12/27/2011 10:06:11 AM
I liked my 1st one enough that when a local, used one, came up for sale, I bought it also. I have the 1st one in 7.62x39 and the 2nd in 5.56mm (and the parts to convert the 1st one back to 5.56mm if I want). Very reliable, provided you have the gas set right (just as you would need to have the gas set right on a FAL). Easily adjustable gas system. You can change the calibers yourself with only an allen wrench needed. I may get a 6.8 SPC caliber kit for mine. I did break the charging handle (MY FAULT) on one, and it took about 2 months to get the replacement parts.
BB
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Posted: 12/27/2011 10:50:44 AM
I had one but I sold it after the firing pin broke. Didnt trust it. YMMV.
soapboxpreacher
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Posted: 12/27/2011 10:54:27 AM
[Last Edit: 12/27/2011 10:58:18 AM by soapboxpreacher]
I liked mine but the Customer Service...is bad...very bad!! I sold it for a few reasons...CS was one and how long it took to get the new stock out the other...it was years from what was promised to what has been delivered! But as for CS, emails go unanswered, phone calls, etc! Terra was a bright hope for the CS department there but she left the company. It is a nice flat firing platform with little recoil (when the gas is set right). But I had issues with quality or more so design. Screws would rattle lose. Easy to fix with some loctite but bad design in some areas and excellent in others. Barrel Nut would come loose, deflector as well. I did love the bolt, ergos, and it is built like a tank. It didnt "chew thru" Wolf as Alex told me first hand...even after break in with brass, a little disappointed with that! It also wasnt as accurate as I was hoping. It is "Combat Accurate" which for many is fine. The rifle also doesnt open up too far so it makes getting in and cleaning a little tough...not a major issue but annoying. The Trigger has been improved and is far better...the original had a nasty trigger slap to the finger when it resets after a pull! Overall the platform has been improved but it still needs some minor refinements and it will be excellent not to mention the CS. Alex is on the verge if he can just manage himself and company better. Improves are very slow there. He is a nice guy but was better selling then servicing. The new stock looks great and the versatility of this rifle is impressive however I think more of a novelty. Barrel Changing is nice but I would rather have another rifle that was made for the caliber it shoots. Just my 2cents but I am now entertaining another one since the new stock has shown up on the site! It looks good!
04freedom
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Posted: 12/27/2011 12:07:09 PM
loved mine but came a cross an awesome trade that I couldnt pass up. I will more than likely get another one down the road.
StephenNW
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Posted: 12/27/2011 12:19:09 PM
Ironically, Alex Robinson himself is the one thing most standing in the way of the XCR's success. If he was a better businessman than he is, he would sell or license the XCR to a company that is actually in a position to capitalize on it.

I've shot and like the XCR, but I'd never buy one. Too many unknowns, like what happens to the company if, for example, Alex Robinson gets hit by a bus tomorrow? (a silly example with a serious point.). He strikes me as someone who keeps tight control on things at Robinson Arms. Owning an orphan rifle sucks. There's also Alex's famously poor customer service...a big no-no in today's "reputation economy".
TheOtherDave
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Posted: 12/27/2011 3:12:19 PM
Originally Posted By soapboxpreacher:
I liked mine but the Customer Service...is bad...very bad!! I sold it for a few reasons...CS was one and how long it took to get the new stock out the other...it was years from what was promised to what has been delivered! But as for CS, emails go unanswered, phone calls, etc! Terra was a bright hope for the CS department there but she left the company. It is a nice flat firing platform with little recoil (when the gas is set right). But I had issues with quality or more so design. Screws would rattle lose. Easy to fix with some loctite but bad design in some areas and excellent in others. Barrel Nut would come loose, deflector as well. I did love the bolt, ergos, and it is built like a tank. It didnt "chew thru" Wolf as Alex told me first hand...even after break in with brass, a little disappointed with that! It also wasnt as accurate as I was hoping. It is "Combat Accurate" which for many is fine. The rifle also doesnt open up too far so it makes getting in and cleaning a little tough...not a major issue but annoying. The Trigger has been improved and is far better...the original had a nasty trigger slap to the finger when it resets after a pull! Overall the platform has been improved but it still needs some minor refinements and it will be excellent not to mention the CS. Alex is on the verge if he can just manage himself and company better. Improves are very slow there. He is a nice guy but was better selling then servicing. The new stock looks great and the versatility of this rifle is impressive however I think more of a novelty. Barrel Changing is nice but I would rather have another rifle that was made for the caliber it shoots. Just my 2cents but I am now entertaining another one since the new stock has shown up on the site! It looks good!


That's really odd.. I'm not calling BS but I got an early one and have had none of the problems you have.
soapboxpreacher
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Posted: 12/27/2011 7:38:42 PM
Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Originally Posted By soapboxpreacher:
I liked mine but the Customer Service...is bad...very bad!! I sold it for a few reasons...CS was one and how long it took to get the new stock out the other...it was years from what was promised to what has been delivered! But as for CS, emails go unanswered, phone calls, etc! Terra was a bright hope for the CS department there but she left the company. It is a nice flat firing platform with little recoil (when the gas is set right). But I had issues with quality or more so design. Screws would rattle lose. Easy to fix with some loctite but bad design in some areas and excellent in others. Barrel Nut would come loose, deflector as well. I did love the bolt, ergos, and it is built like a tank. It didnt "chew thru" Wolf as Alex told me first hand...even after break in with brass, a little disappointed with that! It also wasnt as accurate as I was hoping. It is "Combat Accurate" which for many is fine. The rifle also doesnt open up too far so it makes getting in and cleaning a little tough...not a major issue but annoying. The Trigger has been improved and is far better...the original had a nasty trigger slap to the finger when it resets after a pull! Overall the platform has been improved but it still needs some minor refinements and it will be excellent not to mention the CS. Alex is on the verge if he can just manage himself and company better. Improves are very slow there. He is a nice guy but was better selling then servicing. The new stock looks great and the versatility of this rifle is impressive however I think more of a novelty. Barrel Changing is nice but I would rather have another rifle that was made for the caliber it shoots. Just my 2cents but I am now entertaining another one since the new stock has shown up on the site! It looks good!


That's really odd.. I'm not calling BS but I got an early one and have had none of the problems you have.


Go over to xcrforums.com...it has been sometime since I had one (XCR) but some...who shoot a lot have had all the issues I have had some with more...but certainly not all. Trying to get help from Rob Arms was a joke! The barrel nut drove me ape! There are several with this issue...but it is easy to fix...loctite! But it is a bad design...he chose a bad fastener for that application. My XCR did not have the trigger issue...for I bought when the new "enhanced" trigger came out so I never had the "slap" issue. Other had issues with the damn thing popping open while shooting it...you can youtube that! The accuracy...side by side to any rack AR was inferior...not terrible but not as good. It isnt a bad platform it just to me is unfinished platform lead by a man that has zero emphasis on customer service. He is slow to improve and his past history with such rifles as the M96 where completely abandon...I learned this after I had the XCR. I dumped my rifle for the worry of where the company was going...frustration of the wait for the promised stock, which took 3 plus years...2 longer than I was told by alex! And all the little things that just werent refined enough. It was (before the new stock) a Frankenstein rifle! If an AK and an AR got busy this is the result! Now with the new stock it is looking pretty nice. I loved the ergonomics...he did a great job with every aspect of that...I also love that bolt design...it is a TANK! But I am still soo reluctant because considering the small amount of XCR actually on the market there are a lot of gremlins still in the design...ultimately that was the biggest reason I left! There were barrel issues...resolved, trigger issues..resolved, out of spec gas port, ejector plate, random bolts loosening...there are too many little things that hold this platform back!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSU_d1DNVFw[/youtube]


SkagSig40
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Posted: 12/27/2011 10:20:14 PM
I too have one of the very 1st XCR's to hit the market back in 2006. It had a lot of problems but Terra was incredible about making all the problems right. My bolt was out of spec and was causing FTF and jammed up the gun tighter then a virgin on her wedding night. Terra got me all fixed up and did a bunch of upgrades for free. Her customer service is truly top notch and my XCR is 100% now. With that said I would be very worried if I had to send in my gun right now with a problem. I love my XCR but I keep thinking about trading it in for a high end AR like an LMT or something. I fear I may not be able to keep it running in the future. On the flip side in the future I don't want to regret selling it....what do you guys think I should do? What is the going price for a excellent condition XCR on the used market these days?
CaverX
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Posted: 12/27/2011 11:24:38 PM
I have several XCR's, including an SBR. I've had a few problems. I've either taken care of it myself, or the one thing I had to send a bolt back for they fixed and returned in good order. Mine all run great now, I shoot mainly 5.56 and some 7.62x39. Pretty much exclusively Wolf beacuse it's relatively cheap.

I like the rifle, parts ARE available, maybe not always the same week but it's not that hard to stock up. CS varies. As has the quality of manufacture. Some folks run great out of the box, others have multiple problems. Sometimes self-induced, other times not.

If you don't mind the possibility of having to tweak it to get it reliable then I'd say you might enjoy it. Otherwise it might not be for you.

If you do decide to get one try and make sure it is recent manufacture, with the newer trigger and gas system.
B44T
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Posted: 12/28/2011 12:34:31 AM
Originally Posted By bigkracka:
Anyone here have experience with them?


A little.

In the summer of 06 I ran Sn.112 pretty hard for several hundred rounds of mixed bag 5.56 and 2.23 ammo and various magazines. I have also recently done the same with Sn.42xx which was built sometime in 08 I believe.

Both ran 100% and had virtually no muzzle jump, some disturbance but no jump. Ejection was positive and forward at 2 O'clock with cases landing between 5 and 15 feet away depending on the ammo.

Ergonomics were the best I have experienced to date, conveniently located and easily operated by the firing hand without breaking the grip.

Fit and finish were excellent with the edge going to Sn.112. as Sn.42xx had a few minor tool marks visible in internal recesses of the lower.
Play between the upper and lower was barley perceptible with almost some up down and no side to side or rocking.

The folding stock and hinge are stoutly built with no play observed. The left side non reciprocating charging handle is pushed in to engage the bolt carrier for forward assist purposes.

Sn. 112 had none of the updates. Sn. 42xx shipped with the improved firing pin, gas piston and gas adjustment knob. The triggers ( old style) were two stage with a light smooth pull and a clean break at what I would guess as around four pounds.

Engineering and fabrication were generally excellent IMHO also with no visible tool marks on the internal parts.
Weight was 7.5 pounds and the only polymer parts were the charging handle knob and ejection port buffer.

What I did not like;
The folding stock does not latch in the folded position.
The monolithic upper has rails at 12,3,6 and 9 O'clock, I prefer a hand guard and top rail only.

I am told Kermit Zahn of Wild Thang Farms is the go to guy, dealer and source for parts and all things XCR.

B44T
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Posted: 12/28/2011 2:28:05 AM
Originally Posted By SkagSig40:
I too have one of the very 1st XCR's to hit the market back in 2006. It had a lot of problems but Terra was incredible about making all the problems right. My bolt was out of spec and was causing FTF and jammed up the gun tighter then a virgin on her wedding night. Terra got me all fixed up and did a bunch of upgrades for free. Her customer service is truly top notch and my XCR is 100% now. With that said I would be very worried if I had to send in my gun right now with a problem. I love my XCR but I keep thinking about trading it in for a high end AR like an LMT or something. I fear I may not be able to keep it running in the future. On the flip side in the future I don't want to regret selling it....what do you guys think I should do? What is the going price for a excellent condition XCR on the used market these days?


Your XCR is built tough. Overbuilt IMO.

Take a good look at the parts, see anything fragile or likely to wear out in a lifetime or two ?
I don't think there are any.

What parts can be lost when field stripping it ?
The gas knob is the only part that I can chink of.

If you wanted to you could buy some spare springs and whatnot from Kermit Zahn and save them for just in case you or maybe your grand kids need them.



elray
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Posted: 12/28/2011 2:38:14 AM
i have owned 3 m-96's and 2 xcr's.
i no longer own them.
BLACK RIVER MAFIA
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Posted: 12/28/2011 8:32:27 AM
[Last Edit: 12/28/2011 8:33:30 AM by LoadedDrum]
It is a great rifle whose genius is greatly misunderstood by many. I get it and that is why I have 3.

The genius of the XCR is that it combines the best of old ideas from the AR, FAL, and AK along with unprecedented ease of user serviceability. You can literally take the entire rifle apart with nothing more than a pin punch, a few allen keys, and crescent wrench. All of these can be found in a Walmart and they all fit in pouch or pocket. Compare that with the tools needed for just about any other rifle. Now is a better time than ever to get the XCR as the new stock is finally available. Other things, like 1/7 twist barrels and the 2-stage trigger have been out for a while. Request the 1/7 barrel when you order as you still get the 1/9 by default as far as I know.

As far as the CS thing goes, yes, there definetely have been issues. Ask Sean K about that if you are curious as he is the best example. However he still is on board with the platform in spite of the shit he went through. The XCR is that good.

FWIW, I had to use the CS for my first XCR. This was in '06 in the pre-XCRmonger/Terra era. The service was great. I had an issue with the bolt. They, unlike many companies had me send in just the bolt and not the whole damn rifle. Communication was excellent and I got my bolt back promptly. Currently, communication is their biggest issue with sales not communicating enough and Alex occasionally communicating too much. Some people run around this by purchasing parts from Kermit (Wild Thang Farms in ID). He is a great guy to deal with.



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Furyataurus
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Posted: 12/28/2011 10:05:40 AM
IN before Robinson finds this thread and locks it.




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Posted: 12/28/2011 7:50:47 PM
Originally Posted By Furyataurus:
IN before Robinson finds this thread and locks it.







Unfortunately, part of RA locking down anything they didin't like when they had an industry sub forum here was that a bunch of small cocked assholes were giving Terra a hard time because they were too stupid to properly troll Alex. These days it is hard to find some one on ARFcom who is aware of Terra and does not like her.
Keith_J has forgotten more than I will ever know and Deej86 has forgotten less than I will ever remember.

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Posted: 12/28/2011 11:12:54 PM
I will report on the XCR Saturday night as I'm getting one tomorrow and will be using it in a 3 gun match on saturday.
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Posted: 12/29/2011 1:47:24 AM
Originally Posted By owtlaw:
I will report on the XCR Saturday night as I'm getting one tomorrow and will be using it in a 3 gun match on saturday.


You need to break it in before your match!! RA states 500 rounds of brass on highest gas to get it worked in. This is well known. Just a heads up. For I have seen other in carbine course with fresh out of the box rifles that had issues...and among them were XCR!...I was one way back in the day...had to borrow a Olympic Arms AR to finish...you read that right!

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Posted: 12/29/2011 5:15:05 PM
I've thought of getting one and I wonder if being local will help if I have an issue as far as service goes.
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