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sven556
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Posted: 10/12/2011 11:07:26 PM

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
I'm looking for a red dot to mount on a remington 700 in 30-06. It will be used for hunting deer out to around 300 yds.

All I'm asking is for honest opinions on a good red dot sight for this application! I know red dots aren't as accurate as a scope. I won't mount a scope on this rifle. I'd rather use iron sights than a scope! I'm looking for a compact red dot sight that can me mounted at the rear of the action. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
sven
bobweaver
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Posted: 10/12/2011 11:27:11 PM
I personally don't think a red dot sight would allow you a humane shot on an animal past 50-75y or so, definitely not 300. You owe it to the animal you are harvesting to make a good shot and a red dot sight isn't your best tool for this...unless of course it is a pig, then shoot it anyway possible
Pigs are evil little bastards!
sven556
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Posted: 10/12/2011 11:35:20 PM
Apparently you don't have much if any experience with a red dot then. I know from personal experience that red dots are capable of putting rounds in a decent group (not target accuracy but decent 6-7" groups) out past 450 yds using an m4 with an aimpoint mounted. I'm looking for a red dot sight that can withstand the recoil of the 30-06.
Capt-Planet
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Posted: 10/13/2011 12:02:09 AM
The Trijicon RMR might suit your bill well.
Hizzie
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Posted: 10/13/2011 12:48:23 AM
Greg Rodriguez wrote an article or two about this. Both times optic used was an Aimpoint Micro mounted to the front scope base. Several guys over on AR added RDS's to big bores and double rifles with good effect. My plan is to mount a Vortex Sparc on my .458WM to try this out before I invest in an Aimpoint. 300yds is pushing it. 2MOA dot x 300yds = 6" of target obscured. 4MOA dot x 300yds = 12" of target obscured.

http://combatopticsreviews.com/aimpoint-micro-h-1-review/

http://www.titanium-gunworks.com/express-montage/henneberger-mounts-for-docter-sight/hennberger-mount-for-docter-sight-blaser-r93.html

You could also mount an Aimpoint 9000L or H30/H34 on your 700.
carterbrunelle
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Posted: 10/13/2011 1:49:53 AM
[Last Edit: 10/13/2011 1:50:39 AM by carterbrunelle]
nothin against captain planet, but i definitely would not buy an RMR for your application. For taking shots that far out with a red dot where accuracy is crucial, I would use a 2 moa dot
Capt-Planet
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Posted: 10/13/2011 2:00:37 AM
Originally Posted By carterbrunelle:
nothin against captain planet, but i definitely would not buy an RMR for your application. For taking shots that far out with a red dot where accuracy is crucial, I would use a 2 moa dot


You have a valid point, but I'm under the assumption that the 300 meters isn't actually a realistic distance. Perhaps I'm wrong.
ch1966
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Posted: 10/13/2011 6:14:06 AM
[Last Edit: 10/13/2011 6:19:05 AM by ch1966]
Originally Posted By sven556:
Apparently you don't have much if any experience with a red dot then. I know from personal experience that red dots are capable of putting rounds in a decent group (not target accuracy but decent 6-7" groups) out past 450 yds using an m4 with an aimpoint mounted. I'm looking for a red dot sight that can withstand the recoil of the 30-06.


I can understand the use of a red dot for reflex shooting inside a certain yardage limit. I recently mounted an AimPoint PRO on my 9422M for semirural coyotes and "rimfire only" public lands (100 yds max).
However..... 6-7" groups is the difference between a heart/lung shot and a three legged or gut shot deer.

That said, any quality sight that is rated for use on a 12 gauge should stand up to a 30-06.

I would rethink the either yardage limit or sight choice personally....

bobweaver
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Posted: 10/13/2011 8:01:13 AM
Originally Posted By sven556:
Apparently you don't have much if any experience with a red dot then. I know from personal experience that red dots are capable of putting rounds in a decent group (not target accuracy but decent 6-7" groups) out past 450 yds using an m4 with an aimpoint mounted. I'm looking for a red dot sight that can withstand the recoil of the 30-06.


Actually, that is all I did for quite some time. I specialized in hog eradication for a wildlife management company and I own pretty much every high end red dot sight on the market. Even with a 2MOA dot, you won't be getting groups tight enough at that range to make ethical shots. As for your claim of M4's shooting 6" groups at 450 with an Aimpoint . The science isn't there my friend. We aren't here to bash you brother. You asked a reasonable question and I gave you the reasonable answer. It's your decision to make though.
Pigs are evil little bastards!
carterbrunelle
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Posted: 10/13/2011 9:44:23 AM
Originally Posted By Capt-Planet:
Originally Posted By carterbrunelle:
nothin against captain planet, but i definitely would not buy an RMR for your application. For taking shots that far out with a red dot where accuracy is crucial, I would use a 2 moa dot


You have a valid point, but I'm under the assumption that the 300 meters isn't actually a realistic distance. Perhaps I'm wrong.


I agree completely with you. Hunting out to 300m with a red dot sounds ludicrous. A 1-4x sounds like a much better option if he wants the 1x
brasidas
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Posted: 10/13/2011 9:47:03 AM
[Last Edit: 10/13/2011 9:56:46 AM by brasidas]
I put a red dot on a muzzleloader and wasn't happy with it. All dot scopes except EoTechs have fairly dark sight pictures, which really interferes with your ability to see targets (at least ones that are not white or orange) at longer ranges. Some scopes, like the Aimpoints, are better than others, but they are still darker than irons or a conventional scope. The red illumination does not help, which makes it difficult to see objects around the dot in my experience. Red almost stands out too well as compared to green or amber.

That being said, I'd go with an AP Micro.

I was looking at an elk 300 yards away on Saturday, and I don't think I would be comfortable taking that shot without magnification. I could surely hit the animal, but a magnified scope would give me additonal confidence that I was hitting it in the right place.
PA452
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:05:30 AM
I agree with those that say rethink the sight choice or range.

You owe it to the animal to at least try to make a clean kill. There are much better options for what you want to do.
Gotta enjoy the little things.
1IV
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:19:00 AM
Use a 1-4 illuminated reticle scope for reflex like shooting. Primary arms.
TheRedGoat
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:34:38 AM

However..... 6-7" groups is the difference between a heart/lung shot and a three legged or gut shot deer.




It's just my opinion, but few hunters can hold a 1-2MOA sight picture, in the field, on deer. Nerves, unknown windage, unknown distance, weather, poor support for the rifle, poor shooting stance/position, proper breathing ... lots of ways to ruin a 1MOA rifle's capability in the field.

300yds, with a 'field MOA' of 2-3", using a scope, is 6-9" of accuracy at that range.

I think this cancels out the basic inaccuracy of the 2-4MOA red dot at that range.

I've thought about running a red-dot on my .308 this deer season, because my normal hunting range is under 150yds.

TRG
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TheRedGoat
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:35:44 AM
Originally Posted By 1IV:
Use a 1-4 illuminated reticle scope for reflex like shooting. Primary arms.


You seen the new 3x (fixed) compact?

TRG
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PA452
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:39:56 AM
Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

However..... 6-7" groups is the difference between a heart/lung shot and a three legged or gut shot deer.




It's just my opinion, but few hunters can hold a 1-2MOA sight picture, in the field, on deer. Nerves, unknown windage, unknown distance, weather, poor support for the rifle, poor shooting stance/position, proper breathing ... lots of ways to ruin a 1MOA rifle's capability in the field.

300yds, with a 'field MOA' of 2-3", using a scope, is 6-9" of accuracy at that range.

I think this cancels out the basic inaccuracy of the 2-4MOA red dot at that range.

I've thought about running a red-dot on my .308 this deer season, because my normal hunting range is under 150yds.

TRG


But you forgot to add your "field" adjustments to the RDS group size.
Gotta enjoy the little things.
TheRedGoat
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Posted: 10/13/2011 12:10:44 PM
Originally Posted By PA452:
Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

However..... 6-7" groups is the difference between a heart/lung shot and a three legged or gut shot deer.




It's just my opinion, but few hunters can hold a 1-2MOA sight picture, in the field, on deer. Nerves, unknown windage, unknown distance, weather, poor support for the rifle, poor shooting stance/position, proper breathing ... lots of ways to ruin a 1MOA rifle's capability in the field.

300yds, with a 'field MOA' of 2-3", using a scope, is 6-9" of accuracy at that range.

I think this cancels out the basic inaccuracy of the 2-4MOA red dot at that range.

I've thought about running a red-dot on my .308 this deer season, because my normal hunting range is under 150yds.

TRG


But you forgot to add your "field" adjustments to the RDS group size.


IMHO, it's a wash.

At 300 yds, scoped or irons or red-dots will still exceed most hunter's actual ability to hit where they think they are aiming.

If the red-dot is covering the area when the trigger is pulled, it is no more/less likely to hit the heart/lung of the deer.

TRG
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Moondog
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Posted: 10/13/2011 9:52:30 PM
I see guys at the range using paper plates as sight-in targets for hunting deer-sized game. The plate is about the size of the heart and lung area. If they can hit the pie plate, they're good to go. I'd be concerned if the dot covers a larger area than the pie plate, and it's not guaranteed you shots will fall in that vital zone.
TheRedGoat
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Posted: 10/13/2011 9:59:14 PM
Originally Posted By Moondog:
I see guys at the range using paper plates as sight-in targets for hunting deer-sized game. The plate is about the size of the heart and lung area. If they can hit the pie plate, they're good to go. I'd be concerned if the dot covers a larger area than the pie plate, and it's not guaranteed you shots will fall in that vital zone.


I've spoken to long time deer hunters who consider the paper plate test to be the touchstone of accurate deer hunting.

TRG
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sven556
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:02:20 PM
Thanks for all the input. I still think that if the shooter is up to it (decent eyesight, practiced shooter, etc) then 300yds with a red dot is not out of the picture. That said most of my hunting is well within 200 yds and the majority is a fair amount less than 200, some even less than 100.

What is a good red dot for the money? I know I could drop the dough for an aimpoint or eotech and be satisfied, but I think there has to be some better priced, quality red dots out there.
carterbrunelle
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:41:16 PM
[Last Edit: 10/13/2011 11:41:36 PM by carterbrunelle]
I've never used anything other than aim point or eotech, but from what I hear primary arms sights work well. However, my only concern about lower quality red dots is keeping a zero. I highly doubt you'll be running it through a torture test though
Hizzie
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:57:15 PM
Burris Fastfire II and Docter Optic seem to survive just fine on big bores. Vortex Sparc is rated for 1000rds of 375H&H. Bushnell TRS25 is supposed to be rated for 375H&H. Of course the Aimpoint Micro is tougher than a New York cockroach and seems impervious to heat and recoil. I asked the guys at Primary Arms about the recoil resistance of their Micro clone and while they could not guarantee it would survive they did guarantee to warranty the sight if my 458 knocked the snot out of it.
Ridley
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Posted: 10/14/2011 2:16:20 AM
For a hunting application, why WOULDN'T you want magnification? I see no reasons whatsoever to NOT choose a 1-4x over an RDS for hunting, especially on a bolt gun....it's just plain counter intuitive.
Hizzie
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Posted: 10/14/2011 12:12:00 PM
Originally Posted By Ridley:
For a hunting application, why WOULDN'T you want magnification? I see no reasons whatsoever to NOT choose a 1-4x over an RDS for hunting, especially on a bolt gun....it's just plain counter intuitive.


Actually RDS are very popular in Europe for Red Stag and driven boar. Animals are usually hunted in brush conditions and shots are usually taken on running game.
1IV
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Posted: 10/14/2011 12:34:52 PM
Primary Arms 3X Compact
Features
FOV 35' at 100 yards Red Illuminated Reticle Waterproof Fog resistant Eye relief 3.5" .3 MOA windage and elevation adjustments 5.5" long 15.5oz Multi-coated lens One year warranty Fits in Acog mounts Uses single CR2032 battery (Included) Base can be removed for use on a AR15/M16 carry handle Note: If upgrading to Butler Creek Flip Ups, rails must be removed.



All the fun of a red dot but with good cross hairs, hmmmmmmm

Veery nice TRG- that's going on my next boomstick.

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Posted: 10/14/2011 1:04:54 PM
knowing what's the "average" shot distance in bagging your game and that should answer the question OP. if you're good to go out to 200 yards with a red dot that's pretty good. i'd be comfortable using mine (and have done so) under hunting conditions but a shot longer than 100 yards is not very common here in the SE where i hunt. i'd guess the average shot around these parts is 50-75 yards and sometimes less so under those conditions a red-dot is quite adequate. i use one on a Marlin 35 Rem lever gun. no problem connecting at all at the shorter ranges.

for my 6.5Grendel AR though, i run a 1.5-4X Leupold scope and am much more comfortable under hunting conditions out to 200+ yards with that setup.....

YMMV
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