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AKsala
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Posted: 2/12/2011 2:00:54 AM
I am trying to get ideas for a reasonable match grade AR, not bottom of the barrel prices or anything, but not extreme custom stuff either. Anyone have any ideas?
eric10mm
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Posted: 2/12/2011 2:12:45 AM
START with a great barrel, then build around it.
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AKsala
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Posted: 2/12/2011 2:23:46 AM
do you like shilen barrels? how critical is the bolt and carrier to accuracy? how big of a difference between say, 18 and 20 inch. How big of a difference does the profile of the barrel make, if any. do bull barrels affect accuracy? is it possible to have a piston system on a match barrel? will that affect accuracy?
cyrus-the-virus
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Posted: 2/12/2011 3:47:36 AM
Originally Posted By AKsala:
do you like shilen barrels? how critical is the bolt and carrier to accuracy? how big of a difference between say, 18 and 20 inch. How big of a difference does the profile of the barrel make, if any. do bull barrels affect accuracy? is it possible to have a piston system on a match barrel? will that affect accuracy?


Well what do you want to do with it?


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Specop_007
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Posted: 2/12/2011 10:56:02 AM
Well, heres my opinions on it.

Precision shooting seems as much black magic as hard science. You can take 2 barrels from the same manufacturer, same vendor, turned to the same profile, same length, same twist and they shoot differently. Why? Well I just chaulk it up to black magic. I mean we could get nitty gritty in the details and explain it but thats some serious paperwork.

So really the important areas to focus on arent in the little details such as what carrier but rather where you can get the most increase in performance. Thats going to be where you get your barrel, where you get your trigger and where you get your ammunition. Those are kind of the "Big 3" of shooting.


I built my precision rig for right around $2,000. Some of it is "as good as it gets" and some of it as truly bottom of the barrel.

I went with a 22" Krieger barrel with matched bolt from Compass Lake. I want to say it was 550 or so. Then I went with a JP Enterprises trigger. Another 200 or so. Everything after that was middle of the road at best. Oh except the stock which is a Magpul PRS which was around 250.

It shoots 3/4" 5 shot groups. Not where I want it to be but I think thats more the shooter than the rifle.

If you dont get lost looking at the forest for the trees and can see the trees for the forest you'll save a lot of headaches. Buy a good barrel. You wont get any better than Krieger although theres many that are just as good. Get a good trigger. Geissle is very popular but I do like my JP. Then find (or reload) quality ammunition and you'll be well on your way to having a precision rig.
What the fuck were you going to do? Laugh the last three guys to death, funnyman?!

Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble. - Kharn
Specop_007
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Posted: 2/12/2011 11:01:10 AM
Originally Posted By AKsala:
do you like shilen barrels? how critical is the bolt and carrier to accuracy? how big of a difference between say, 18 and 20 inch. How big of a difference does the profile of the barrel make, if any. do bull barrels affect accuracy? is it possible to have a piston system on a match barrel? will that affect accuracy?


Shilen is good. Pac Nor, Obbermeyer (Spelling?), Krieger, and half a dozen I've forgotten right now.

Well, I wouldnt say its "critical". It may have an affect on accuracy but I really dont believe anyone would be able to see the differences. As long as the bolt/carrier are new and within tolerances you'll be fine.

Little extra velocity. Only really matters if your really stretching its legs at which point the 22 and 24" options look attractive.

Profile affects heat and weight more than anything.

Bull barrels? Thicker barrel heats up more slowly which minimizes shifts in POI due to heat.

The idea is that the extra weight of the moving piston affects accuracy. By how much I havent a damn clue. I cant imagine its all that much.

Everything affects accuracy. The more important question is to what degree, and is it enough of a change to be noticeable?

My thoughts on it.
What the fuck were you going to do? Laugh the last three guys to death, funnyman?!

Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble. - Kharn
wheelchairman
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Posted: 2/12/2011 6:37:19 PM
Originally Posted By AKsala:
do you like shilen barrels? how critical is the bolt and carrier to accuracy? how big of a difference between say, 18 and 20 inch. How big of a difference does the profile of the barrel make, if any. do bull barrels affect accuracy? is it possible to have a piston system on a match barrel? will that affect accuracy?


I may be offbase due to my limited experience but I'm not a believer in bolt carrier groups doing much. My "precision build" uses just a stock rock river arms bcg. Some will swear by a low mass bcg or some special coated but not I. Accuracy of a barrel has nothing to do with length. At distance is where you will see a 24" beat an 18" but inside even 400 yards, it is negligible in my opinion. At range, you will see the slower bullets dropping more and be effected by wind more. A bull barrel will just simply help with your heating. It won't get hott as fast but it also won't cool fast. If you are shooting under 300, I'd feel fine buying a 16" but if you are like me and shoot it to 600, I'd go long.

One major aspect I feel you have overlooked would be the twist weight and the gas block. Personally, I like a 1/8 twist. It will stabilize anything you are trying to load mag length. As far as the gas block goes, get an adjustable. I like mine to where it just barely cycles with the match load. This gives less wear on moving parts and helps you spot your hits. It will make the 3 recoil pulses feel like 1(fires projectile)...2 (bcg hitting rear... 3 bcg slamming home instead of 1 2 3....

I'd spend my money on a barrel, trigger, stock and bipod. You will only shoot as good as you are comfortable behind the gun and a good smooth trigger will help you with the pull. As far as the stock goes, If an A2 gives a good LOP I'd just duct tape a small piece of foam to the stock at a height perfect for your cheek weld. Unless multiple people will be using this gun, no need for an adjustable stock like a PRS. Just use tape to make your cheek rest.

My rig is a no name lower, DPMS LPK, A2 stock with a RRA 2 stage sporter. Upper consists of a no name upper, RRA BCG, YHM free float specter length rail, low pro gas block with a wilson 15.6" stainless 1/8 twist barrel. I built it on a college budget. If I were to do it again I'd use the adjustable gas block and a 22-24" tube since I shoot it out to 600.

Sorry for the book of a response.
Why mount an ar15 to my wheelchair? Because every wheelchair should have the ability to hard mount rifles and it's badass!- me
Intelligentsia
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Posted: 2/12/2011 7:13:13 PM
Barrel, then trigger. Get good training and practice. Don't skimp on optics.
USMARINE1108
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Posted: 2/12/2011 9:54:36 PM
Originally Posted By Intelligentsia:
Barrel, then trigger. Get good training and practice. Don't skimp on optics.



This, plus quality ammo. Also, make sure the barrel is floated.
AKsala
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Posted: 2/12/2011 10:56:07 PM
Thanks for all the responses, especially the book length ones. I am going to try out a shillen barrel, custom made bull barrel style for 500 bucks. timney trigger and good old fashioned gas system. I hadnt thought about twists yet, but I hear 1in8 is most versatile, as was mentioned. Ill need a bipod for sure.
Specop_007
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Posted: 2/12/2011 11:17:18 PM
Honestly if your doing bench work I'd skip the bipod and go with a good rest.
What the fuck were you going to do? Laugh the last three guys to death, funnyman?!

Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble. - Kharn
lithgow303
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Posted: 2/13/2011 1:04:14 AM
White Oak Armament barrel and a Geissele trigger. It works for me.
Colt_sporter
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Posted: 2/13/2011 3:13:54 PM
Having built many an AR including match grade AR's. I say save the leg work and buy an OBR Lite.
"If you don't have full auto weapons on day one of the revolution, you will have them on day two." EricThe(NeverToBeForgotten)Hun

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