I took on a project, hydrodipping a friends sportbike plastic.  No side fairings so the pieces are relatively small.  I took the project because I had been thinking about getting into this for my own rifle stocks etc.

Anyone here do any dipping before?  I know all the details of how the process works, and I've worked in automotive refinishing, as well as doing some custom finishes on the guitars I've built.  My real question is what topcoat would I use on a firearm?  The bike is going to be cleared at my friends body shop, but I know I wouldn't want a high gloss finish on any firearm.  Do they make a special matte finish for firearms?  Most of the matte clears I've used are still a little too glossy for a firearm as far as I'm concerned.  Is it common for firearms to not get a topcoat over the dip?  I feel like the dip itself wouldn't hold up to much abuse.

Dipping is not easy unless you have the right equipment. Even then, it's still not easy.
You need to have the right temps, the right amount of agent, the right amount of time.
Your going to need a top coat or it will scratch off very easily.
Several layers would be fine on a firearm as long as you don't spray inside the action parts...which should have been masked off anyway.
Hydro dip isnt really the best at durability. It's great, and prevents rust and a printed image, but it's not cerakote.
With use (depending on how light or hard you use the dipped part), it will eventually rub/scrape off and leave the base coat, until that wears off also.

I've got a relatively basic but workable dipping setup put together, definately not commercial grade, but suitable for my purpose and better than a bucket.  Aside from that I can do the whole paint thing, I figure I'll need to do a few trial runs to get the activator application just right, looks like it goes on pretty heavy, like a clearcoat.  Does cerakote make a clear?  

Interesting side note, back when I was taking an automotive refinishing course in college, I learned a method of transferring images from posters to vehicles.  If you soaked the poster in water the image would lift off and could be carefully transferred.  A guy put britney spears on the lid of his truck

Cerakote does make a clear, but it is high gloss. TWN Industries can supply you with an automotive grade flat clear. It's a 2 part mix. It's what I used on my 11-87.
I bought everything from TWN (base coat, film, activator, and clear coat).

The 2 part base coat seemed to be temperamental to the activator, so I went to Shirwin Williams and had them color match me a can of latex paint. The latex paint and a small amount of xylene mixed in my activator worked great.

 




Bolt, mag cap, and trigger guard I cerakoted in Patriot Brown.

That looks great!  TWN carries the kryptek film?  I didn't remember seeing any when I looked through their selection.  I would have assumed their base coat would have been the best to use with their activator.  I've got access to a PPG mixing booth and I can get a small amount of any color for free so I was going to do some test pieces with the PPG base to see how it works.  I've used a House of Kolor flattened clear before that looks great on motorcycles but I still think it has too much sheen for a firearm, I suppose I could play with the ratios a bit.  Is the activator anything that I'd want to use a dedicated spray gun for?  I'd hate to mess up my good guns, I wondered if the aerosol activator would be worth considering.

TWN is the only company that offers Kryptek, along with other proprietary patterns like Multicam and ATACS,
You want a dedicated activator gun. For some reason activator makes guns leak at the needle seat. But you still need a decent quality gun.
You can use PPG as a base coat. If you are doing bike parts, I would just go start to finish with a reliable automotive system.

Doing guns is a whole other story. First you need an FFL to do it for other people as a business.
You also might want to start experimenting with other paints as base coats. You have to be mindful of millage buildup with firearms, so some 3 or 4 step auto systems will prove problematic.
Also while they might be pretty durable, they wont be as durable as some other tougher paints out there. But the tougher the paints, generally the tougher they are to dip to.

Get ready for a frustrating and rewarding hobby.

Definitely not doing this as a business.  My coworker knew I painted my bike and wondered if I could dip his bike, I'm always up for learning something new.  Only guns that will get dipped are my own, probably just the furniture for now, I don't have anything that warrants a refinish.  Definitely using PPG primer, base and clear for the bike.  Might play around with HOK for a flat finish on firearm parts.  I'm used to keeping the buildup to a minimum on motorcycle plastic, although I could see that being tough on an AR receiver with all the nooks and crannies.  Probably going with aerosol activator for now so I don't mess up my good gun, already ruined a cheaper one spraying water based paints on a guitar.  Should be interesting, I'll post some pics of my test pieces.

My friend will be doing the clear for the bike at his body shop, he's got an $800 clear gun and he can get it done with one nice coat so it'll stay nice and flexible.  I used a clear from PPG while I was in school that was called diamond-clear if I recall.  You could run a key down the side of a car (not too hard of course) and it wouldn't scratch it, of course it didn't like to be sanded or polished either so you had to lay it down perfect the first time.  I think just about any urethane/polyurethane automotive clear will be infinitely more durable than an aerosol clear, just not sure what will give me the best matte finish.  That's going to take some experimentation.  The AR won't be getting dipped until I find the right clear for the job, if at all.

I should be doing the dipping Friday if I can fit it in around my work schedule.  I'll post some pics of my improvised setup and the results in case anyone's interested.

I absolutely want leftover paint!  I do alot of guitars and small paint projects so I usually go through any leftover materials.  That's the only reason I'm dipping this bike, not making any profit aside from the labor to repair and prep the plastic, just getting the experience and leftover materials.  I'll have a decent selection of smaller sections of films to work on my own projects.

I've still got leftover HOK coarse green metalflake and diamondplate from these two guitars I built.  Leftovers are great!

Just started my test runs today.  First time I used too much activator and some of the print rinsed off.  The second run was much better, but wasn't as crisp as I'd like.  It's a skull pattern similar to reaper, clear skulls with a black background.  Dipped it over a silver base, seemed like the silver was showing through the black a little bit.  I'm wondering if I'm not letting it sit long enough before rinsing.  What is the timeframe between dipping and rinsing?  I was rinsing the small test pieces in the sink under luke warm water about 10 seconds after dipping.

The print it somewhat transparent. Especially when the print hits the water and expands.

All of the issues you list could be caused by multiple factors.
How hot is your water?
What type of activator are you using?
What type of paint are you using?
How long are you letting the film sit on the water before activating?
How long after activating are you waiting to dip?

etc.......

Activator is aerosol from Mydipkit.  Not the brand I was hoping to use, but the film my friend wanted was only available through them.  The spray pattern is actually pretty good and consistent.  Letting film sit on 85* water for 60-90s, dipping 15s after activator (per manuf. instructions).  I feel like I'm rinsing too soon after dipping.  These are the trial runs so I figured I'd have to play around a little.  Paint on these parts was flat silver engine paint, lays down like an automotive silver base.  What is the general timeframe between dipping and rinsing?

With some solvent paints people typically wait about 5 minutes to half an hour, just depending on the brand and what they have found to work best.
Water based paints can go in immediately.

Rattle can paints... all bets are off. Nothing is ever consistent with them.

Im going to give it several minutes after the dip before I rinse the next time.  From what I understand the image on the film actually etches into the basecoat?  That would explain why the dark parts are coming out a little light.

So I'm right that the image from the film is etching into the basecoat, and the formulation of the base affects the time required for the image to etch?

Once the film hits the paint, it's as etched as it's going to get.
If your basecoat has cured too much or not enough, it can cause the film to not stick at all, or to get so soft that it melts it back off the part. There is what we call a dipping window with every different type of paint out there. You have to experiment with solvent paints to find the sweet spot.

With spray cans, paint isn't always mixed completely, solvents are not uniform, spray patterns aren't uniform etc. So when some parts are well under the dip window, other areas on the same paint are already passing it.

we just recieved our hydro supplies a 1/2 hr ago, and I hope to start experimenting this weekend...pics to follow...good or bad

i always had good luck with dipping the item and holding it underwater moving it back and forth for a minute.i think it helps calm down the activator. once it comes out of the dip your just looking to gently get the slime feel off. if you use a strong sprayer or rub with your fingers too hard the finish can wear or come off a bit. its a feel thing.i used a sink sprayer very gently like 2 feet above the part. you wanna keep moving the water and not beat up a spot.

Brownells has an Aluma-Hyde II clear satin that I've always thought of using as a top coat.

The activator isn't really getting any calmer under water. It is still trapped between the PVA slime and the base coat. So if it's too hot, it will continue to cook until the slime is rinsed off completely or it burns your pattern back off.  
Now if you have solvent based paints, the activator does make the paint soft. Some more than others. So if you rinse it too hard, bump it, yank it out of the water too fast, it could mess things up. Because you essentially have a wet coat of paint all over again.

But these are all variables that are dialed in with experience. If the recipe is right, things move like clockwork and you don't have to worry too much about those issues.

when you rinse off your using water. if you dunk through the activated film your in water... gotta remember the activator is still floating on the top pissing off the film and breaking it up. its still hot so... its possible to pick up blotchy artifacts on your nice dip job if you just quick dunk and pull it back out. if you hold the item under a little longer and gently move it around while still under water it will break up the top surface tension and remaining blobs and floating activator so when you pull it back out it wont have artifacts. its a feel thing. you need to get the shiny slime off. if you blast it with too high water pressure your looking for trouble. id rather spend 5 minutes rinsing with hardly any pressure. just what works for me.

Not really.
Once the PVA is between the part and the water, it doesn't matter if you get film remnants or more activator on it.
I double dip parts all the time by not rinsing the PVA and going again.
Where the slime still is, no dip will stick.

The swirling underwater thing is mainly just a habit people picked up from watching too much youtube.
I go in and come straight back out every day without moving anything on top of the water with no problems.

What a beotch I definitely need more practice

this is the 3rd time on the grip, she likes it now

still needs clear matte

and the hand guards took 2 tries, these have matt clear on them, one pattern stretched a little, but looks good on the bottom of the barrel



it really is a learning curve, biggest thing I have discovered is to make sure you have plenty of ink on the water, don't cheap out on an inch or 2

the hand guards are no way perfect, they have small "bubbles/holes" that she said was fine, can't see them from a foot away

Looks good Bansil!  I've still gotta get the activator down.  I think my problem is that I spray it like clear, with too much overlap.  I'm almost through my test film and then I'll be getting into the pattern I'm using on the bike plastics.  I was smart and I ordered twice as much film as I needed for the bike, and the activator seems to go a long way.

Here is a thread i started on my hydro dipped ar that I built...was definitely a learning experience.

Hydrodip Project

The bike parts turned out nice!  I started out dipping some gun parts with skulls.  Clear skulls on a black background.  Started with silver, then went to desert tan.  Black with tan skulls, looked pretty good.  But since I was using random hardware store aerosols, I had adhesion problems.  Initially too much activator stripped the print and the basecoat off.  I finally got the activator down, but still just had general problems with durability.

I had the dipping process down at this point, so I shot the bike parts in bright white from PPG, let them dry for about 8-10hrs, and dipped.  Almost all of the parts came out perfect!  A little stretch on the front fender, and the tank had to be dipped 3 times because my bathtub wasn't big enough.  The automotive basecoat was amazing for print adhesion.  The dips went smooth and the image held up to some heavy rinsing/rubbing.  Hung everything up to drip-dry and got them to the shop for clear the next morning.  Automotive paints (urethane) are really the way to go, and if I dip my AR that's what I'll use.  Probably gonna need to look for some bigger containers or build something bigger but square.  Don't plan on doing it professionally so I wont be buying a real tank.

These pics are right after the dip, before clear, except for the picture of the small piece at the end.  Kind of hard to see the shine with the pattern, but it's like glass.  I'll put up some more pics after he gets it all back on his bike.

You can dip to automotive paints much sooner than that just for future reference. I usually go as soon as it tacks off well enough to handle.

The quicker you move the easier it is to stay inside your clear window.

As far as using automotive systems on guns, be aware that most of those systems have some pretty high mil builds, so clearance could be an issue on some things.

Other than that, looks like you are having fun so keep it up!