I have an OTAL and a Dbal I2 (red vis) but want to get one more ir laser with an illuminator.  I currently use the 952V to serve as my illuminator with a taps switch.

The MAWL is out - simply can't afford it.  I have read almost every thread on here about the atpial-c and the DBAL D2 and still cant make up my mind.

Area of use would be mixed 75% country and 25% near the city.  I know the trade off's: D2 has a great illuminator but is 1) heavy/larger; 2) low 1.5 hr battery life; and 3) visible glow signature at 2 degree field of view.  Atpial C is reliable, smaller, rear facing battery, 6 hr battery life; but has a an illuminator that looks to weak, oval shaped and a mount that is less than desirable.  

For anyone that has seen, used or owned both - please let me know which one you prefer (edit - and had to only have one).  This will be my last laser.... (right).

A huge thank you in advance.

Why not consider the A3 or I2 single spectrum?

The adjustable focus gets you 25-50 more yards than the ATPIAL-C.

Only because, I have heard second hand, read on here from industry folk, and the John Lovell telluric video (comparing D2 and atpialc) -that the other Steiner models were not as reliable.   To be clear, I am not saying they are, and I have not knowledge if that's true. But I guess that is why I limited it down to those two.

Your OTAL with a M952V is good to @ 125M which is @ 25-50M more than an ATPIAL-C. Your D2 is good for 500M+ easily. As Sam stated the MAWL C1+ is the ultimate and dwarfs a full power PEQ 15 as far as illumination. A huge advantage the MAWL has over the D2 is the preset settings for close, mid, and long range since you have to manually focus the D2s illuminator. You can sell your D2 and your OTAL and add a bit more for the MAWL since you only need 1 LAM at a time. The only downside to the MAWL is it doesn't have that much time in service and it's 10ozs which is just under the weight of the D2s 12.5ozs

Short distance you can get away with an atpial. Long distances d2. It comes down to that. There is one on EE right now for $950 (a d2).  Sometimes they can be bought new for not much more.

Imo the MAWL doesn't perform to the tune of $1500+ better.

Yup.  And to be quite frank it's nice but not anywhere close to the $1500 more than a d2. Again, imo, for my use. I'm not in small areas quickly transitioning to large areas where quickly switching modes is necessary

Quite frankly I've lost some respect for you since this overpriced thing came out. You always say your straight up guys but you lie to sell it and here is the proof. You lie and try to say the d2 struggles to hit 350m and More than one person calls you out and owns you pointing out your very own website says otherwise.


You've also tried to say if Steiner came out with something similiar it would be the same price. Well guess what. A4 V2. Word on the street is around $1800. You guys are simply out of control with this thing and it's obvious the way you act when someone questions it. You'll lie to defend it. Says a lot.

I really appreciate all of the replies and comments.  But, this is not where I thought this thread was going to go.  Please don't make this a personal comment/call out thread.  Anyhow, here are pics of the rifle my new LAM (still undecided) will go on.  Thanks guys.





I am leaning more towards the atpial due to the visible signature of the D2 (this would be a home defense tool); but will give the MAWL a review/study.  If it is everything as advertised I will have to consider saving up....but I would like to see some track record (durability) though before I committed that amount of funds.  May wait it out....

I think the ATPIAL-C works well for 100y or less; D2 would be better for anything further.

I love my D2, but it's a pig. For HD and short range shooting, I'd go ATPIAL-C.

I don't see how anyone uses an atpial c past 30 yards with any success.

i can't even light up shit at my neighbors across the street with the illuminator, it's about 50 yards.

luckily I don't really use it, so not a big deal. Next time I'll probably pick up a full power unit though.

I had a D2, sold it and don't miss it. I got an ATPIAL-C and love it. The D2 is only better for over 200 yards illuminating in my opinion, it's very heavy and the ATPIAL is better in every other aspect. I won't swap it off my SBR but a MAWL will go on my longer range carbine build. 

A bold claim?  Childish?  I posted EVIDENCE. It's right there in black and white. It's not like I'm posting hearsay here.

So what you're saying is either that's not you who comments, in your companies name(or work for), on YouTube, or you have no control over the person who does. And am I wrong?  I see you guys constantly say "we are straight up" here. Constantly. Well one guy on your team isn't.

Look man, don't get mad at me and call me names. I'm pointing out something someone on your team did that flies in the face of your repeated claims. Not just you but all the tnvc guys who post here. Clean up your own backyard before getting mad at people who noticed your.........inconsistencies.


It's not like those comments can't be edited. If it wasn't a lie and just a mistake why wasn't it fixed?  In fact once the call out was made whoever at tnvc made the comment vanished instead of owning up to the lie or claiming mistake and fixing it.

And now that I think about it what about the claims that if Steiner made something comparable it would priced similarly?  Well they are and they added a freaking white light and it's rumored to be roughly $800 less.

I could bring up more things like how you downplayed the vis signature of the d2 when it first dropped but I've seen you overplay it now that the MAWL is out.

Face it. You guys are out of control over the MAWL. I think we all get it. You guys love it. But there is example after example of you guys(one of you) straight up lying (evidence above) to bs'ing about price and everything else. Again, don't get mad at me. I'm simply pointing out what my eyes see.

And you know I wasn't going to bother saying anything but if there is one thing most customers and people in general don't like is being treated like they are stupid. And that's exactly what whoever from TNVC did when they lied in that YouTube comment. As evidenced by how many people jumped on him about it. Thats what was done with all of the examples I gave. And maybe that's not your intent but that's the result.  Just something to think about man.

OP. I highly recommend you try to find a way to test a MAWL first. Yes it is very nice equipment but for what you'll use it for I highly recommend you figure out if it's worth the extra $1500. For me it's not. I don't care about it being ambidextrous. I don't care about the ergonomics because I use a tape switch. I don't care about rapid change in the illuminator because I'm not using it in dynamic situations.

Unless money grows on trees for you. It's not like I wouldn't have one if money grew on trees for me. Well, at least until the a4 v2 comes out. Which Im really looking forward too.

I have no dog in this fight.

But the picture you posted earlier started the conversation about IR laser power, not illuminator power. TNVC's website says the IR laser range for the D2 is 400-450 yards. I am assuming that is under perfect conditions with a more realistic range less than than (which would be 350 yards).

You should post more of that conversation to show if they are talking about the illuminator not the laser, or you are misrepresenting the situation and attacking a reputable company for something they did not do or say.

Also, I am saving my pennies to get a MAWL. Hopefully by Thanksgiving

Edit: Jesus H. Christ, I just realized the TNVC rep said 350 meters for the laser. That is pretty damn close to a 400 YARD best condition distance.

Enough with the call outs and personal attacks.  This is a tech forum/thread.  Mods can lock this up if they want.

Didn't TNVC's original review of the D2 prototype discuss and even showed pictures of the D2's visible signature.  So unless those photos aren't real, I don't think they have misrepresented anything.  
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_37/361577_.html

I have two pvs-14s from them, they have always answered my questions and been straight forward with me. Hell both Sam and Chip have talked to me for hours when I was trying to just understand thermal so I could decide if I wanted to buy one.  

Some people have PM'd me really good info and comments (because they don't want to post in this mess).  Thanks to all that did.  I appreciate it.

Going with a Tan D2 (green vis).  

I would be embarrassed to post with feedback like that

Had a MAWL DA on a 60 day T&E, and I totally agree. Clarity of beam & illuminator, plus switchology and form factor, it blew the other products we evaluated out of the water.

I went to BE Meyers direct for a quote for a large quantity of MAWL DAs. The price per unit we were quoted and the price that TNVC sells individual units for are pennies apart. Trust me, TNVC is not selling the MAWL because they are making a killing on it, they are selling it because it really is the best thing around. I am not a cutting edge guy, and I do not like deviating from "the standard" when ordering products that need to hold up and be supported for years. I don't want my team to be somebody's beta tester. Same reason we held off on the piston AR fad and stuck with our trouble free Colts. I got a MAWL in for T&E simply because I wanted to cast a wide net. Even if you ignore performance, the MAWL just that much more user friendly when switching modes. That does not mean other lasers are not good, only that the MAWL is far more user friendly, ESPECIALLY when you have to switch modes going from indoors to outdoors, etc.

I think all the confusion about max effective range is TNVCs statement of 350m with the D2s IR laser not IR illuminator which has been pretty constant from all the post I've read. Like most I'm relying on feedback from those on the front lines, instructors, and in the industry since they see the volume of returns and problems. I actually like the no BS answer even though it's not the most popular.

Haven't had a thread go down the shitter like this in a while.