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Posted: 7/15/2017 6:30:00 PM EDT
Got sick of struggling to see if that impression up ahead was a huge rock, a deep hole, or just an ant pile.



(pics of NV on page 2)

I think it works They are Rigid Industries D2 Infrared (940nm, which I was hesitant about at first given that I have a Gen 3 PVS14) but they work incredibly well. The only problem is that you have to be very careful not to leave them on accidentally.
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 7:18:31 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm guessing they cost a fortune. Lol

I have a wrangler and every accessory for it does. Lol
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 7:24:50 PM EDT
[#2]
BE SURE to install a visible lighted switch for those lights so you positively know whether or not they are on at all times.
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 7:56:00 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
BE SURE to install a visible lighted switch for those lights so you positively know whether or not they are on at all times.
View Quote
Excellent suggestion.
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 7:59:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Why is it so bad to leave them on?
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 8:04:00 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
Why is it so bad to leave them on?
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Dead battery in the middle of the night in the woods...
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 8:41:09 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
Why is it so bad to leave them on?
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Permanent Human Blindness
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 8:42:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Why not simply use low intensity white light????
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 8:46:22 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
Why not simply use low intensity white light????
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Because the choppers can see it, duh.
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 8:55:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
BE SURE to install a visible lighted switch for those lights so you positively know whether or not they are on at all times.
View Quote
Good idea. Is there a particular color that would show up least under NV so as to not flood my interior with light? (I've disabled the dash lights)
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 8:55:23 PM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:


Because the choppers can see it, duh.
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And aliens.
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 8:57:38 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:


Good idea. Is there a particular color that would show up least under NV so as to not flood my interior with light? (I've disabled the dash lights)
View Quote
I have a Red rocker switch for my IR to minimize NV distraction and keep interior blacked out, I use a Green rocker for my thermal pan/tilt that is a bit brighter.

I would recommend a Red rocker switch.
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 9:16:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 9:58:43 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:



Permanent Human Blindness
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Please tell me you only think this to be the case, rather than knowing it -
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 10:20:34 PM EDT
[#14]
I am extremely careful with all my NV gear, lasers, IR Illuminators and such, some of them have a heavy IR wattage output.
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 10:23:22 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
Please tell me you only think this to be the case, rather than knowing it -
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It is true. IR light manufacturers also state the warning regarding concentrated IR light. Since the human eye cannot detect IR, someone looking at an IR won't be able to see it and can damage their eyes, severely or permanently. Visible light causes a person to look away or the iris to close drastically to restrict the amount of light reaching the retina.
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 10:24:27 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:


It is true. IR light manufacturers also state the warning regarding concentrated IR light. Since the human eye cannot detect IR, someone looking at an IR won't be able to see it and can damage their eyes, severely or permanently. Visible light cuases a person to look away or the iris to close drastically to restrict the amount of light reaching the retina.
View Quote
Let me rephrase - I hope that you only know this in theory, rather than having seen the practical results of someone having been blinded by an IR light -
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 10:35:27 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:
Let me rephrase - I hope that you only know this in theory, rather than having seen the practical results of someone having been blinded by an IR light -
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Heeded manufacturers warnings. Suspect warnings came from either research, not theory, or from someone's experience. Don't want to use AI self driving vehicle.
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 11:21:00 PM EDT
[#18]
When I unboxed these lights they had a big warning sticker on the lens about not looking into them.

I would imagine an unrestricted IR laser would still be more damaging to your eye than these lights, but it most certainly cannot be healthy to stare into them for even a fraction of a second.

I'm sure CJ7 is just saying he hopes Skypup hasn't personally known anyone to get eye damage from such a setup and not that it can't happen, but the statements made in this thread have me reconsidering using this light to illuminate a range for IR shooting and other such tasks. It just seems too dangerous when using a monocular.

Also FullAuto they cost about $650 with the brackets and wiring.
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 11:27:18 PM EDT
[#19]
I always HATED driving around blacked out with night vision.
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 11:27:42 PM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 1:41:53 AM EDT
[#21]
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RIGID makes the best Made in the USA vehicle lighting out there. Can't say enough how good their kit is.
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Can you advise on safety?

Also, can you advise about goggles or lenses to block IR light?
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 2:26:54 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
BE SURE to install a visible lighted switch for those lights so you positively know whether or not they are on at all times.
View Quote
I totally agree with this but I took it a step further. I have a Blackout Mode and a White Light Mode wired into my lighting logic for my vehicle. If the white lights do not come on then it's probably because I left it in Blackout Mode (and the IR might be "On"). I also have a Master Kill Switch that kills the entire 12V Rail so I don't have any parasitic drains (or IR goofs).

I have some 940nm lights that are collecting dust because I have not been motivated enough to upgrade from 850nm. For eye safety, I have always just tried to keep the IR beam out of my field of view. If I can see any red coming off of the light then I consider that a hazard situation. I have not really considered the safety implications of converting to a less visible band of supplemental IR light.

This is a good conversation and I look forward to any feedback (especially negative) regarding my observations.
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 3:01:44 AM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:
I have some 940nm lights that are collecting dust because I have not been motivated enough to upgrade from 850nm. For eye safety, I have always just tried to keep the IR beam out of my field of view. 
View Quote
Just a quick note on this - The Gen3 PVS-14 is more than 10 times more sensitive to light at 850nm than it is at 940nm, so for the same volume of illumination, you need to pump out more than 10 times the power to light up 940nm leds to equal brightness.

This has two effects.

1) You increase your changes of detection to digital and camera based NV.
2) You increase the NOHD by about 2 to 3 times. 

So while it may be good from a hunting perspective, it's probably a bad thing from a tactical perspective and a safety-based perspective.

This is due to the diminishing response from Gallium Arsenide to light above 850nm - 

Regards
David
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 5:44:36 AM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:


Makes no-never-mind to me what you believe, but you can try it out for yourself and let us know.....with your new braille keyboard.
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I think he's getting at the fact that hopefully you've never seen someone actually get damaged vision by these and you're just educated to the possibility.
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 7:10:43 AM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Just a quick note on this - The Gen3 PVS-14 is more than 10 times more sensitive to light at 850nm than it is at 940nm, so for the same volume of illumination, you need to pump out more than 10 times the power to light up 940nm leds to equal brightness.

This has two effects.

1) You increase your changes of detection to digital and camera based NV.
2) You increase the NOHD by about 2 to 3 times. 

So while it may be good from a hunting perspective, it's probably a bad thing from a tactical perspective and a safety-based perspective.

This is due to the diminishing response from Gallium Arsenide to light above 850nm - 

Regards
David
View Quote
Exactly. This is why I looked high and low for a plug and play, easy to use 850nm IR light bar but aside from some smaller company in Texas whose name escapes me it was Rigid or bust.

It's "neat" for sure that there is no red IR signature at the light, but that's also a bad thing for your eyes. And while (as you can tell from the pics and the video above) they are extremely bright they could have gotten by with much less power at 850nm to achieve the same level of lighting.
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 7:41:47 AM EDT
[#26]
I have the mil-spec Larson Electronics 850nm IR light bars on my UTV, they are incredible. Rigid IRs are first class too.












Main thing I would recommend when getting a set is DO NOT get a flood lens setup as way way too bright up close, get a concentrated spotlight beam lens for long throw, the spill from the spotlight is plenty up close.

















Thermal at night in front of one of my feeders and HogBalls.
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 10:32:17 AM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have the mil-spec Larson Electronics 850nm IR light bars on my UTV, they are incredible. Rigid IRs are first class too.


Main thing I would recommend when getting a set is DO NOT get a flood lens setup as way way too bright up close, get a concentrated spotlight beam lens for long throw, the spill from the spotlight is plenty up close.

Thermal at night in front of one of my feeders and HogBalls.
View Quote
Damnit! Larson is the company I mentioned in my previous post, but their website seemed finicky and the lights themselves didn't seem as "user friendly". While I know my way around a 12v system there was a lot to be said for buying it all in one shot. Again, not that Rigid is bad or that I can't see damn near everything with 940nm but 850nm would have been good.

Also, per your above post I installed the lights using the Rigid IR switch. I was using a cheaper, smaller more discreet switch because I really didn't like the idea of drilling into my dash (I can't put light switches on the A Pillar because it will blind me using NV) but I got over it pretty quickly. If I sell the Jeep I can always throw some visible Rigid Duallys in there or something.

I haven't had a chance to see how much light they emit under NV at night, but considering it is below the steering wheel and red I can't imagine it being a problem. I think in the future I will get identical, but blue, light switches for my visible lights and place them to the left of this switch.

Link Posted: 7/16/2017 10:55:54 AM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Damnit! Larson is the company I mentioned in my previous post, but their website seemed finicky and the lights themselves didn't seem as "user friendly". While I know my way around a 12v system there was a lot to be said for buying it all in one shot. Again, not that Rigid is bad or that I can't see damn near everything with 940nm but 850nm would have been good.

Also, per your above post I installed the lights using the Rigid IR switch. I was using a cheaper, smaller more discreet switch because I really didn't like the idea of drilling into my dash (I can't put light switches on the A Pillar because it will blind me using NV) but I got over it pretty quickly. If I sell the Jeep I can always throw some visible Rigid Duallys in there or something.

I haven't had a chance to see how much light they emit under NV at night, but considering it is below the steering wheel and red I can't imagine it being a problem. I think in the future I will get identical, but blue, light switches for my visible lights and place them to the left of this switch.

http://i.imgur.com/0s4qjlJ.jpg
View Quote
If it's too much just toss a piece of black electrical tape over it when you're using it. You don't even have to cover it completely if you don't want to.
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 11:08:52 AM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:


I think he's getting at the fact that hopefully you've never seen someone actually get damaged vision by these and you're just educated to the possibility.
View Quote
O.K. Read it differently. Nope, no actual experienc, but wouldn't find it entirely impossible someone experienced it in one of those; "Hey, watch this shiet" U-tuber moments.

I will take the manufacturer's warnings as being accurate.
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 12:20:01 PM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 12:25:51 PM EDT
[#31]
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 12:27:06 PM EDT
[#32]
I have a set of those on my side by side, they're excellent. The red switch is a must.
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 12:28:46 PM EDT
[#33]
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 1:48:50 PM EDT
[#34]
Any in depth reading to be had on various ir illumination and it's effects on various nv/generations ?
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 5:52:02 PM EDT
[#35]
I have installed Rigid lights on both my truck and my wife's  SUV.
I tried other brands. I will never buy anything else.
I want to put one IR in my grill for just incase.
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 6:18:09 PM EDT
[#36]
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Quoted:
Any in depth reading to be had on various ir illumination and it's effects on various nv/generations ?
View Quote
Search for Cj7hawk's threads / posts on the Photonis INTENS tubes, he's put up a lot of info about them and in some of the threads also on other Gen2 "generations" and for example their wavelength response curves.

I guess the short answer to your question is latest Gen3 see deeper into NIR, but the INTENS tubes considerably more so and thus the 940nm lights will look a lot brighter.

Here's a comparison with 915nm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RT55zMJXRQ

Edit: bear in mind this is a laser illuminator with a very narrow bandwidth. LEDs tend to "leak", have a wider bandwidth. A 940nm laser might not be visible with most Gen3 at all.
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 6:56:46 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Search for Cj7hawk's threads / posts on the Photonis INTENS tubes, he's put up a lot of info about them and in some of the threads also on other Gen2 "generations" and for example their wavelength response curves.

I guess the short answer to your question is latest Gen3 see deeper into NIR, but the INTENS tubes considerably more so and thus the 940nm lights will look a lot brighter.

Here's a comparison with 915nm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RT55zMJXRQ

Edit: bear in mind this is a laser illuminator with a very narrow bandwidth. LEDs tend to "leak", have a wider bandwidth. A 940nm laser might not be visible with most Gen3 at all.
View Quote
The L3's and ITT looked way better than the photonis in that video in general. I'd take that over the fact that the photonis picked up the 915 better.
Link Posted: 7/17/2017 8:47:15 AM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The L3's and ITT looked way better than the photonis in that video in general. I'd take that over the fact that the photonis picked up the 915 better.
View Quote
True, though some of that is due to the dark green phosphor being harder for the cam. Was just giving an example of how different tubes react to certain illumination. No doubt the INTENS lacks in gain compared to new Gen3 with the same-ish FOM.
Link Posted: 7/17/2017 9:10:15 AM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:
Because the choppers can see it, duh.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why not simply use low intensity white light????
Because the choppers can see it, duh.
Any chopper flying at night can see the IR too... Just sayin... (and I Think you were joking)
Link Posted: 7/17/2017 10:19:27 AM EDT
[#40]
This is much better than holding my surefire out the window
Link Posted: 7/17/2017 1:35:08 PM EDT
[#41]
Y'all just driving blacked out is ameture.
I tow blacked out.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 7/17/2017 1:37:57 PM EDT
[#42]
But I've also done some runs on trails at night in this faster then my friends can do it during the day.
I bought one pair of the Rigids b4 they were popular/available.
These are the UNV ones and I am very happy with them. I have some 10" bars but have not found that I need to mount them.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 7/17/2017 1:46:50 PM EDT
[#43]
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Quoted:


Any chopper flying at night can see the IR too... Just sayin... (and I Think you were joking)
View Quote
Not sure he was...

Link Posted: 7/17/2017 2:13:13 PM EDT
[#44]
So for all you driving blacked out guys, how did you rig your vehicle for it? I mean cutting the cabin and tail lights?
Link Posted: 7/17/2017 3:33:27 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So for all you driving blacked out guys, how did you rig your vehicle for it? I mean cutting the cabin and tail lights?
View Quote
I pull the fuses for my low beam headlights and tail lights/brakelights.  This way I still have high beams if needed in an emergency, and reverse lights, again, if needed.  I'm just hunting, so this is not tactical.

My cabin lights go completely black with a dimmer rheostat that came from the factory.
Link Posted: 7/17/2017 3:34:11 PM EDT
[#46]


How much splash-back are you getting on your hood?
Link Posted: 7/17/2017 4:00:29 PM EDT
[#47]
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Quoted:


How much splash-back are you getting on your hood?
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Those lights are driving beams. Not much at all surprisingly. That's one of the reasons I didn't want to put them up there but it isn't an issue. I also have mine pointed somewhat off to the side and up.

I'll get a pic up sometime.
Link Posted: 7/17/2017 6:40:49 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So for all you driving blacked out guys, how did you rig your vehicle for it? I mean cutting the cabin and tail lights?
View Quote
Lots of relays.....and time.
Link Posted: 7/17/2017 8:24:53 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Lots of tape.....and beer.
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Ahem



Link Posted: 7/17/2017 8:28:26 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
But I've also done some runs on trails at night in this faster then my friends can do it during the day.
I bought one pair of the Rigids b4 they were popular/available.
These are the UNV ones and I am very happy with them. I have some 10" bars but have not found that I need to mount them.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/102939/IMG-3574-256264.JPG
View Quote
I'm happy with green and thought I never would switch but the more I look at WP the more I get the itch to sell my tubes and pick up some L3 WP's.  I just can't stop spending money on this stuff.....gah
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