Hmm, there's a few more people on here from my AO than I was aware of.  I'm also in the Tampa area and very blessed on multiple fronts- I've got several friends that are similarly equipped to me and multiple properties at my disposal, both here and in the panhandle.  I get out fairly regularly but those pesky adult responsibilities like work do limit what I can do.  

I do believe there are more people running around with technology than we think, no matter how much we want to convince ourselves that we're the coolest kids on the block.  This is something to be mindful of, as you want to know what kind of capabilities others have- especially if they happen to not share your views and ideologies.  The first time you're out on "night ops" thinking you're the Ruler of Darkness and the only one out there and you hear someone else pop off a suppressed shot, it'll hit home that there's others out there in your area just as equipped as you are.  We've been out coyote hunting before and have had just that happen- someone takes a shot in the area and then you are instantly glad that you practice both visible and IR light discipline.

Glad to hear about others getting out and actually using this stuff and not treating it like the Crown's jewels!

Some wailing wally just posted on my neighborhood listserv that mountain lion was seen stalking around the park at night.  I guess I will have to go exploring!

I have a couple of friends with NODs and I have a spare PVS14 I let people use.  I've been once this year.  None of the close ranges allow night shooting so it's either an hour north to family land or an hour south to a range that allows shooting at night.  It sucks but it is the reality of living in the suburbs.

@amediocreshooter

I watched.  Looks like fun although hard to see what's happening as you mentioned.

What comms do you use? How do you coordinate movement of an l-shaped ambush at night?

So I got into night vision about 5 years ago when I bought a Python night vision scope to kill some beavers that were destroying my property. Believe it or not, I had it on top of a KSG bull-pup 12 gauge. Nobody told me these things were recoil sensitive. I got lucky because of the loads I was using, and the quality of the tube, and didn't destroy it after about 50 rounds of 2 3/4" #4 buckshot. Solved the beaver problem too....Fast forward to today.

I still have the Python and loan it out once and a while to a couple good friends I trust, but I don't use it. I have 2 PVS-14s and 2 helmets. One has an older autogated tube that I bought used, and is my "beat around" device. I use it when I'm fearful of damaging it because of physical abuse, or light abuse, though I have never damaged it. My other PVS-14 is a filmless White Phosphor blem tube with off the chart specs. I built that one, and use it for recon and navigation mostly. It can really, really, let me see in the dark. The scope I use on top an AR-15 for coyotes is a Pulsar 550. Yes I know, but it works well and I paid like $700 bucks for it. I bought it as a hold over until I can get an IR Hunter. It's served me well and has cost a lot of coyotes and raccoons their lives. I can hit baseballs, or racoon heads, at 200 yards with the setup. I'm just now getting into IR lasers and exploring how to use them best on both long guns and pistols. It's been my obsession lately.

I live on a large parcel of land that is mostly forested, and I have no neighbors so I can, and do, shoot when ever I feel like it. A luxury for sure. I have only one friend that will come over a few times a year to shoot at night. That's it. I have a strong theory about the lonely nights the OP originally brought up.

I worked at a small gun store for over a year helping out a friend. I know for a fact less than 1 in 50 gun owners shoots regularly. It's probably more like 1 in 500 that shoot once a month. Then you branch out to night vision, and night shooting, and other than military people you've really narrowed the field down. There are area's where night hunting for hogs and such is popular, but over all we're a small percentage. And that's all right by me. Hunting in the day, it's getting harder and harder to find places to be by yourself. Hunting coyotes at night I have the whole county to myself. I also like to think if I need to see in the dark for more important reasons that I hope never come to be, that I have an edge over most.

So I shoot at night mainly because It's one area I can still learn a lot, and that makes it fun for me. Punching holes in paper out to 500 yards in the daylight has lost it's appeal for me. Now I'm into night shooting, and hunting day or night. I also have to practice with a pistol to stay competent. I'm going to try shooting a pistol at night now, with the aid of an IR laser that I just purchased. I'm really looking forward to trying that out. Any advice in that area would be appreciated.

I live in S.W. WA. State, and would drive a coupe hours to shoot with, or hunt with someone else at night. I'm not going to invite anyone I haven't met and don't know to my property. I'm funny that way. I just don't trust people that much in general, until I get to know them.

I have been training in the shooting arts for over 40 years, both day and night, and with night vision for the last ten or so.  I think the comments about how many train in general, and then who does it at night, are pretty spot on.  The vast majority of gun owners do very little training at all.  If they do, it is at a local square range.  In day light.  Doing any kind of SUT, which adds movement into the mix, such as a jungle walk type scenario, cuts the field WAY down.  Doing it at night, cuts that down even further.  So in the end, those peeps doing any kind of SUT, as the OP suggests, under NV is a very small subset indeed.  

Most of the guys (at least those that will comment on open forum) seem to be hunting with their gear, as opposed to any kind of tactical training.  Yes I realize there are overlaps in T,T,P's, but there is a huge difference between a lone or even two-man hunting party, and a 2-4 man team practicing small unit tactics.  The need for firearms safety, IFF, comms, and maneuver SOP goes up exponentially.  I think what is sometimes forgotten is how many hours of training are needed for a team to be able to fire and maneuver, safely, at night under NV.  You might need to train (at least) once a week for (at least) 4 weeks before you are able to pull off a live fire night patrol under NV.  On top of training for your individual skill sets.  That is a lot of time to commit to, but is a bare minimum IMHO.  Hence the reason why I think most guys have trouble getting to that level.  It's not that the skill sets are that hard, it's just that most folks don't have the time or commitment to get there.

And once you're there, we get into sustainment training.  Trying to keep the same level of training over a multi-year period.  My experience has been most guys last about 4 years, if that, and then fade away to other stuff.  Jobs, family, and many other things get a vote here.  If you can find a few guys who are willing to commit to one weekend a month for team skills training you are lucky.  You will eventually get there; it just takes a lot longer.  Sorta like Reserves or National Guard.

So yeah, to the OP, it is a very small world.

I've got time but no one around me actually will do anything. Lots of talk but when I email saying let's make a plan everyone goes dark.

I take that back. One guy has a hard schedule and I've been out once with another.

But mostly it's all hot air.  I'd love to learn and train all of that stuff. But as if now it's just me.  

This is a very astute analysis, and I can relate to all of it. SUTs is a whole nother level -if only because I don't really want to do an L shaped anything with people I've never met. You have no idea of the skills of anyone you run into. Usually, shooting with someone new is setting up a steel target at 100y (So many people never even shoot their NV beyond 25 or 50 yards which is pretty sad.) for rifle or 25y for pistol and just plink. Working on reloads, position transitions, transition from rifle to pistol, etc. The real deal SUT stuff - you're absolutely right. I wouldn't do anything even close to that with guys I haven't known for years.

Now folks are having kids and working and all sorts of BS. I guess my level of interest is just higher than others. I would suit up and sweat my balls off every single weekend if I had buddies to do it. Heck, I already throw my helmet on weekly as it is but it sucks when all you can hear all night long are the buzzing of mosquitos. Maybe I need to get used to that.

@agBQ08 , good questions. You're all going to laugh but we use clone PRC-148s with Peltor comtac IIIs and PTTs. It sounds goofy, but it's a legit 10w handheld and waterproof, crush proof, sand proof, idiot proof. It also gets HAM freqs for us licensed folks. With a milspec whip antenna I've reached a repeater 20 miles away. That aint no shit.

If you see in the video (I know, its really bad) we're all wearing IR glow sticks on our sides. They also glow a fuckton and you can see even if it is on the other side of the body. We know our AO like the back of our hand. There's a lot that goes into coordinating movement, but it's very deliberate and very careful. It would be much much harder without IR chemlights and we probably wouldn't even do it without an IR light source on all of us.

Thanks for the details.  Sounds like good setups for the well-prepared civilian.  You are light years ahead of most other firearm owners.  I'm about to jump into night vision and luckily have a buddy on the same wavelength even though he's married.  Hell, his wife approves of it all and wants her own gear now that he has his.

Sounds like you are single like me.  Keep trucking on and enjoy life as you see fit.  I always harass my friends to go out (all married) but usually strike out.  I got divorced last year so it's been a trip figuring out my place in life and being the only single friend.  Make the most of the time you get with your old friends and find new things to keep you moving forward.

another great thread made useless by the generic geographic label.

In SWFL I had a quarry I shot in but the Napels astronomy club kicked me out in 2015.

I will get out this saturday & shoot under nods for the first time in a long time.

In Wyoming  it is near impossible to get anyone to shoot with you.

How did they get to make that decision?  Was it theirs?  Why did they get to chose?

This is a real problem for serious folks.  But on the plus side, you can at least net with like-minded individuals on forums like these.  This is huge.  I went for decades only meeting local guys.  Well, after the Marine Corps, which allowed you to meet guys from all over.  Not to belabor the point, but military service used to be the way you made friends and had a common basis to train from.

But, here we are, and at least you know there are others like you.  A start.  So how to go about it.  Well, it's hard.  My experience has not been good.  I have a good friend who is a ten year SF vet, with 6 combat deployments.  He has killed a lot of bad people.  He sat down and taught me a lot of real T,T,P's.  Trouble was, the guys who met up with me had issues with the fact that I was pushing "an agenda" on them; they wanted to be all equals and resented the fact that I was "imposing my standards" on them.  Now a lot of that might have been my fault; perhaps I approached the situation assuming these guys would want to learn what my buddy had taught me; perhaps they thought I was an old geezer that had no credibility.  Whatever the case, it was a disaster.  

So I don't want to discourage you from trying, but rather caution you about the difficulties involved.  So, I would suggest you first sit down with some prospective training partners and hash out just exactly what you want to accomplish, and exactly how you want to go about it.  Then, you need to "elect" leaders.  Establish a chain of command, even if you just rotate it.  Someone has to lead.  Someone has to follow.  If you self-critique the training, you can hash out the problems before guys get pissed off and quit.  My buddy has a saying: "The point man is always right."  A lot of you have heard it.  But it's so true.  Training (not to mention combat) has to have structure.   You follow the point man in, regardless.  Kick his ass later if he fucks up.  But enough of that.

By the numbers.  I think the best start is to take a course, like TNVC/Telluric offered.  The guys who bother to get off their ass and spend the time and money to train are your best bet.  Meet up after class and discuss what you'd like to accomplish.  As an alternative you could PM guys here and try to get something going.  Once you are all on the same sheet of music, set up a training sched.  And give it a shot.  But expect a lot of fuck-ups before you get it right.  Currently I have one guy who is serious enough to train with.  So we are just doing things more along the lines of a 2-man "scout-sniper" team, and will pump that up if and when we link up with others.    But hey man I don't want to be Debbie-downer here;  I would strongly encourage you guys to meet up and train.  Just be advised it's fooking hard.

Ugh. I would kill to find someone like you around me who was willing to pound all of that knowledge into my hard head.

I've been down the learning road. For me, it's a dead end, as there is no mission unless I start having delusions of grandeur. YMMV

Hey man, it's not me, I was a black boot, cold war Marine.  It's my buddy who learned all the latest T,T,P's- on the job, from the last ten years of warfare.  But yeah I am very fortunate he is willing to share all this stuff with me, when he is at home.   He currently works for a company that is teaching these updated T,T,P's to the Fibbers, and Boarder Patrol, among others.  They are very busy.

To the OP, it's extremely difficult to get a starting point with guys you've just met, or with no prior mil service.  Everyone has an opinion and it's hard to establish a standard way of doing things.  What I have found from the SF community is a pretty coherent, standard way of doing things, that comes directly from combat deployments.  They actively seek out feedback from the field and incorporate that into their program.  So they have a common base to build from.  When you get a bunch of civvies together, there is none of this.  I would say you have to build some kind of trust and commitment to each other before attempting to pull this off.  So if it wuz me, I'd actively seek our individuals within my local area, that I could build this bond with.  And yeah it's a lot of work.  You will kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince.  But I'd rather have a decent guy, local, that had my back, than the best operator miles/hours away.

So yeah, to borrow a page from "John Mosby", aka "Mountain Guerilla" doctrine, you need to start local and work out from there.  Ideally you would attend a class as a team, and learn this stuff together.  But the reality may be that one or two of you go and try to disseminate the knowledge within the group.  This is where the problems start, but may be your only option.

I hate to say it, but I think what it comes down to is that a lot of this stuff will be learned OJT, if or when something happens.  Anyone training now, will be WAY in front of the curve.  But again that depends on your estimate of the situation.  Some folks don't see the need for all this.  After the last 8 years, I don't know how that could still be, but, you know.

When I lived in MT we had NVG three gun matches twice a year. Other than that and yote hunting it was difficult to find places to shoot after dark. Ranges closed at sunset and land owners don't like the idea of bullets sailing off into the darkness (most ranchers have no idea about the capabilities of NVG's) or want to listen to gunfire at night.

Up here in Fairbanks, AK we shoot twice a month in the daylight savings months. December is the best because its perfectly dark at 4pm. But it gets ridiculously cold. When it drops below -20 it becomes a bitch to do anything due to wearing heavy trigger finger mittens. Not to mention it's just cold. But it is fun. The only downside is when it's anywhere near a full moon on a clear night with snow on the ground its so bright out you can see all your steel out to 200y with the naked eye, making NVG use not so much fun. Cloudy nights are best. Summer time is obviously too bright to shoot with NVG's at any time of the night because it's too bright out.

I'm going to TX in September. I'm just hoping I'll find a range in Bell county where I can shoot NVG's and hog hunt often.

I tend to avoid other people.

I can hear them breath and they all wear boots that make lots of noise and they want to talk and stuff.  :D

well there seems to be several of us Tampa members with NVG and no friends to shoot with.

I dont have anywhere to night shoot, but wife and i go urban exploring every saturday night with NVG. Industrial areas are creepy at night, my wife was glued to my side for the first few weeks.  We have spotted a mini homeless camp, bobcats, teenage pot smokers, and a couple having sex in the grass around a lake lol. 

humidity is brutally for sure. 

Where in Tampa?  I was there for 8 years and didn't see too many urban industrial areas that were abandoned.

And yes, the humidity is awedul. It's why we didn't choose to move back there. We picked AZ. Plain hot is way better than humidity.

Now what I will say is that if you guys ever go to a SHOT Show or NRA Convention, then it's a good time to met up with fellow arf-comers, esp from the NV persuasion.   Depending on where you're at, it may be hard to find someone local.  Or you could be lucky and be in FL!

Wow, I had no idea there were so many people in SWFL/Central FL interested. For those who don't mind the trip to the Tampa AO, I am considering proposing a night shoot.

There are only a few concerns that I need to work out:

1) Timing - I think attendance will be better in the winter. I personally don't care about the bugs and the rain and the humidity but many do. I won't be able to open our range if we're only earning $20 in revenue.

2) Noise - I don't want to institute a mandatory suppressed rule, but with our closest neighbor being ~400 yards away and it not even getting dark until 9:30 in the summer, it may be a requirement. In the winter on a Friday when it's damn near dark at 6pm it is less of an issue. I will walk over to our neighbors and ask what they think.

3) Safety - I will be the RSO at this event and I know modern NVGs have incredible vision ability however it may make the Board a little apprehensive if we do anything but static shooting. It doesn't have to be bullseye shooting from the bench, but movement drills are unlikely to fly.

I will throw out the idea at our executive committee meeting and see what the consensus is. If we do it once and it is safe, enjoyable, and there are no issues then we can make it a regular thing.

Of course, once we get to know each other we can plan a trip out at private property in the center part of the state and do whatever we want but I'm not throwing 6 strangers from the internet with NV in my truck and going out into the woods without hanging out with them first

100% in.

41 across from the ports mostly, in between 22nd street/Causeway and madison.

As part of this class?

Haven't spent my training budget yet this year Can you give some detail about the NV shoot?

I never knew TNVC had a location in Jax. Do you guys have any showroom/store front for customers? I've been in the area all week and fly out of Jax tomorrow night.

To stay on topic... My family has land that I am able to shoot on at night. The issue is there is housing near by, so everything at night has to be suppressed and I'm still concerned about the noise. It's tough to find a good spot to shoot at night. Also, I almost always shoot alone because my friends are too cheap to get NV. My plan is to put together a cheap PVS14 so I can get my dad out with me.

Double tap

I typically play with mine about 2 nights a week in the summer and nearly every night in the winter. This could be anywhere from a 10 minute quick look around the farm to a 4 hour at drive around or shooting hunting.

I got into the NV thing some 6 or 7 years ago for free as I was issued a PVS-14. At the time, I knew noting about it... I started playing with it while on night shift, then started driving around in the dark with it... everyone looked at me like.... But... the only way to get good with something is to use it... and by damn I've used the shit out of mine all these years and it works great.

Several years back I started shooting at night with the NV mounted on the rifle, then tired shooting with it mounted on a helmet w/o laser, and now I've got my own IR laser.

Like some, I have my own range facility in North FL and access to lots of land here in central FL where I hunt coyote and pigs at night. Last year I started actually night hunting alone and realize I've missed out on a lot of opportunity. Hunting at night and navigating the woods alone doesn't bother me one bit. I just tell the wife what general area I'll be in and what time I should be home.

Few moths ago a fellow ARFCOM'er in this thread took me night hunting and introduced me to the thermal scope scene... so now I'm wanting a thermal as I was looking hard at a D790 Magnus NV scope. Unexpected financial help to the kids right now has me stalled...  

With the exception of my new AFRCOM friend referred to above, no one I know even cares about stepping into the NV scene because of $$.

Tonight wasn't lonely.

But the bugs were totally unbearable. We were ankle deep in water the entire night and I swear to God (I've got a video to prove it) a catfish started swimming across the concrete pad where that exact picture was taken. It is just a swamp right now and kind of killed the vibe. Thermacell, OFF, and citronella didn't do shit against the palmetto bugs, mosquitos, bats, frogs, spiders, snakes, and all the other creepy crawlies.

I still had fun

You wonder why it's a lonely world? The rest of America is shooting off fireworks and getting drunk.

we go out usually weekly, sometimes couple times during the week. located in NW Florida but willing to drive for hunting or just shooting. otherwise we have a spot here


where you at!

I grabbed some of this cat shit stuff.  Hope it works.  FL humidity sucks espcially when you pull up to the range and get out of the A/C.  Insta-fog.

I got everyone together to go on a long nightvision hike tonight and tomm for 4th of July we planned a little nightvision shoot.

We all agreed bugs rain humidity ect F it will load up in our gear guns NV and shoot.

Also we will be shooting fireworks as well.

Even my girlfriend will be joining in for the hike and NV shoot.

I've been hounding everyone to join me since this thread got started hope everyone on here has a awesome 4th of July

I use my night vision gear all the time, but rarely for shooting.    I am trying to change that, but not much interest in it with other shooters that I am friends with.

I have the gear and the desire to use it. But no place near me that I can use it. Need to make friends with people with NV and property.

I'm a no shoes convert. Thanks Bushman. ;)

Sorry I'm still a mouth breather.

I have pretty much the same problem.

Most of my shooting at night involves .22lr, mostly a 15-22 just to cut down on the noise.


but I cant get ANYBODY to go out at night with me.
I even bought a cheap FLIR scout TK (which works awesome for the money) just so a buddy could have a night capable optic while hunting yotes with me.

still nothing.

I think more people are afraid of the dark than we think- it's the only reason, besides $$$, that I can come up with that everyone has a hard time finding NV buddies.  

Have you ever heard of colawarrior.org

I'm in Northern VA as well.  Sucks not having a place to shoot under NODS.  An RO at NRA said he could possibly host a No-light shoot after hours.  I haven't heard from since.

the laser "splash" as you call it, is usually referred to as bloom, and is due to the laser actually having too powerful of an output for the distance being lased.

the answer to this, is to use an optical neutral density filter, to cut the output of the laser down and decrease the bloom.

posting some pics of skypup's to show the difference, and a link to the thread for info - note, if you need a filter that isn't commercially available, you probably can make your own if you order some optical nd filter plastic material and cut something out and rig a cap to hold it.







http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/395739_Laser_Neutral_Density_Filters.html

look in the thread for a link to tnvc nd filters

I am having the same issue. I used to have property I could go shoot on, and did a lot of night shooting there on steel targets. The owner passed away and his Lib kids told me NO when I asked. Oklahoma doesn't have much at all in the way of public shooting land. My private range forbids night shooting. I've got a bunch of great gear and no way to use it. Been thinking of buying 20 or 30 acres in the middle of nowhere just to go out to and practice/shoot whenever I want.

Thanks CM!  That is the info I was looking for.  No wonder mine are blooming, they are around 10mW.  I will cut down some used film as everything is export controlled including laser sunglasses.   I tried to get the manufacturer in China to cut down the power but they know best, even though they can't use real guns!

I got a set of these to try out for fogging http://www.safetyglassesusa.com/essgoggles-profile-turbofan-goggle.html.  I would rather have something that sets closer to my face like Bolle goggles but this is all I could find that was powered.  Between that and the filtered laser I will work over the possums this weekend.

Sounds like there needs to be a men seeking men with night vision thread. I'm in snohomish WA and have a little spot for coyotes at night but none of my buddies have got anything yet. I'm trying to work a trade for my hk94 for another pvs14 and laser so I have a loaner but the guys being a flake. Next week I'm getting moved to first shift from 3rd so night hunting will be a little harder on the weekends.