Hello everyone! I recently went on a hunt with some friends for hogs. While it's not the first hog hunt I have been on, it is the first hunt in which my friend had his new ATN X Sight II on his gun. I was amazed at the ability to see at night. While I am gun nerd and have seen images of people using night vision, there is just something different about seeing it in real life.
Now I know that scope to some of you is cheap/crap/*insert term here*. But for a kid in college, it is pretty cool. I would love to have a Gen 3 scope, a thermal, goggles and more, but that would be almost the price of my college tuition

I have looked at online the Sightmark Photon, the X Sight, and the Armasight Vampire (my current favorite). My thinking is that since the scope will be going on a 300 blackout, the max effective range of my hand loads would be about 150-200 yards.  All of these scopes seem to have the ability to put rounds on target at that range, and with a good illuminator, spot to about 400 yards. But when spending $500, $700, or $900 on a scope, it is less a buy once, cry once mentality because the technology is dated.

So what is my best course of action? But one those scopes? Wait for a good used deal? Sell a kidney for a gen 3 or thermal?

Yea the Photon looks good and it is alot cheaper than the Vampire

Check your PMs.

Gen 2 XSight is pretty impressive, I wouldn't trade mine for the Photon due to the features like single shot zeroing, multiple ballistic profiles, range finder and GPS.

Well I really dont plan on switching between guns and will be using this on a 300 blackout so I plan on getting closer than 200 yards so the range finder matters less. I mean the X sight looks cool but I want rock solid reliability.

Decent open box return price on a Photon 6.5x mag:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JAE0UCA?tag=vglnk-c102-20

If you watch it for a bit it may drop some more.

Should be $518; look for the one that is sold by amazon warehouse (deals in their open box stuff)

Yea, depending on what this guy quotes me for his used one, that may be what I get!

@southenwoodworking

A 4x for $386 just popped up:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NZ98OKG?tag=vglnk-c102-20

Look for a used PVS-4 or M845 (the 845 would be better for your stated application, its much lighter, and smaller) These are milspec Gen2 units which means they actually work, unlike the crap you posted about. They can run in the 800 range. They will be far far better than any of the gen1 or digital shit you are talking about. If you are really on a much smaller budget, consider a PVS-2 (500-600 ish) but they are huge and ancient and will still work way better than any of the things you posted.

ETA: There is one 845 on the bay, (last one apparently) for $825 that I guarantee will be infinetly better than any of the crap you listed.

So that is ready to go? Like I buy that and it works?

ROTC, IOBC, Ranger school...then you'll be issued kick ass NODs

Should be the case. NAIT was a decent company back in the day. Id check with the seller to make sure it works and what their return policy is, but i guatantee that a 90s era gen2 system will hands down beat any shitty commercial gen1 or digital garbage.

The image that I have seen really dont impress me. I think the Vampire is better. I can find very little data on the M845.

LOFL. Be my guest. I have been using NV probably 2x longer than you have been alive. As have most people on this forum, and every one of the will happily tell you the same thing... your "digital" NV is a glorified 30 dollar cell phone camera with the IR filter removed.

The m845 and pvs4 were used for decades by US forces because they worked and worked well. The 845 saw extensive use with US SOF during the gulf war. I dare you to find a single military unit unit using any of the units you listed.

At the bare minimum go read a few threads here abou how NV works and why your choices suck.

ETA, the 845 was sold by TNVC a few years back, and IIRC there should be some old reviews here if you bother looking.

To bad you don't live in Texas.  I let a friend borrow my M845 and when he gets done I would let you try it out.  I'm trying to hook him like a drug dealer.  Any of these will be a little taste leaving you wanting more.  But I would recommend the m845 it's a freaking tank and very easy to make running shots on pigs.  I was better with that than the laser, but a laser is cooler.

I forgot to add with the the m845 you can hunt 60-75% of the time with no additional illumination even though it's a gen 2 unit.  I hate using illumination and I hunt in the middle of nowhere.  The units you listed will need them most of the time.  To me that's a big distinction, you need rugged because you are new at this and will drop it and look how flimsy some of your choices are.  Another good option might be that German cascading unit that was shipped in for a surplus unit, but it will have fish eye at the sides and the 845 is better.

I'm in college and bought an ATN X-sight 2. I worked at Academy sports at the time and you get really good deals on certain products if you take an online class on them.

I've shot a couple of pigs with my X sight on a 7.62x39 AR with a faxon barrel. Works good. Highly recommend the streamlight IR long range illuminator over the ATN factory one though.

I use PVS-14s in the national guard. Mil issue stuff is nice but not needed for just hunting. I plan to get one after I get my engineering degree

I am sorry if I came off as rude. What I mean was, it is just hard for me to find many photos or videos of what it looks like to look through this device. The only ones I saw were not that impressive. But when looking up other gen II stuff, it looks really good. I just wish I had more zoom for spotting at longer ranges.

Yea thats a Mk4 and this one is a MKII. Also, making a shot on a hog past 100 yards would be really hard with that I feel. That scope has the 2.5 mag where this one is only 1.5.

Anyone recommend some good links for gen2 retailers. New to NV also.

Here’s my "sucky glorified 30 dollar cell phone camera” looking at a mailbox (immediately to the L of the crosshairs) that is 256 yards away.  Illum is on but pointed down and right on the street.

Do I like hunting with my thermal or my $4,000 TNV WP better?  Well sure.  Will the $500 Photon work for a college kid, and will it kill hogs?  You bet your red ass it will.

SW, I got your email and will try to get back to you by tomorrow.

Yea. I mean I cant even afford the MK845 but even if I could, it doesnt serve the roll I need. I am just trying to kill hogs, not kick down doors in the middle east.

We are just trying to save you time and money.

I'm not trying to be that guy but it's like a parent trying to tell a kid the way things work but the kid thinks he knows better.

See we've all made the mistake, despite being told not to, of buying a unit that's not up to snuff. You'll get the unit and try running it in your dark house and thinknits goid enough but when you actually go to use it you will see it's limitations very quickly and get that sinking feeling you get when you realize you should have listened.

Save up and buy a decent unit. Pvs-4, the one mentioned above, et cetera.

I am but no means rich. I thought an Armasight Spark core would be fine for me. It was "ok" but guess what?  Now I run dual 14's and even. Ow I'm thinking of pulling the tubes and putting them in a MOD3 housing.

We are just trying to save you money.   Deals pop up. Just keep a sharp eye. Do you want to be happy the first time you actually use it or disappointed?

Look through night goggles the stuff they sell is the low bar you want to shoot for you will be disappointed with less.  You can't afford what you want but you should get used to it that NV.   You need to make some decisions about what you want to do.  Want to kill some pigs cheap fine get a spotlight the most effective least expensive addition to hunt at night.  Want to say you have NV and kill a few pigs when you get lucky the list you have will work but not for long.  Anyone who does this for any length of time doesn't use those because they won't hold up.  If you want to pick this up as a hobby do it 12+ times a year and not have your equipment poop the bed you should look at the recommendations given more closely and yes for your budget you would likely have to buy used which has risks.  This is from the guy who seems to be one of the cheaper guys that post here.  Think about what you actually need and don't settle for less or you will regret it.  
-rugged at night you will trip, fall, bash it, have other people or yourself leave it on maybe in the light rugged will matter for you.
-gen2 or better. Gen2 will be more than enough you will be able to see what y.ou need to on all but full overcast nights.  You can still hunt on those nights but your detection range will go from 500+ yards in an open field to 200 or less without IR.  And I almost never use IR unless to sharpen my laser.
-focus on finding stuff then get closer to know what it is.  You pay big money to identify a pig over a cow or calf past 300 yards.  I only hunt in cattle areas and I can usually tell a pig from a calf on a good night with that m845 at 6-800 yards.  At that range they are dots mixed together but how they behave gives them away.  You learn that from experience watching them and i was better than people with much more expensive gear because I had to be.  
-resale is hard with NV if it's not a brand name good luck, watch the EE to see what I mean.  Certain items earn a good reputation and you have a better resale, in your price range it's a short list so focus on those.  Best of luck.

I've used a gen II m845 from NAIT its great for the price, its bit brighter and clearer than even the gen 1 cascade units be it german or US military (fero-z51 or PVS2)
PVS4 is great too just heavy.  They made a gen III pvs-4 that's even nicer.

Understand, I am not, not listening to y'all. I am taking all of yalls advice. But what I struggle with is when you have some that say a Sightmark Photon, Armasight Vampire, and stuff like that works just fine. Like I see the points y'all make, but I have people making two opposite points. I get it, buy once, cry once. But there is so much conflicting information. Nobody's first car is a Ferrari. So it would be totally overkill for me to just walk into night vision with a PVS-14 gen 3 with all the best stuff. I want to get what best serves my needs. The only experience I have with night vision is a X Sight II. That is what my friend has and he likes it. So whatever the best scope is that serves my needs is what I want to get. If that is a MK845, then I will have to save, if that's a Photon, then I will get the one the guy is selling on here. I just don't want to waste money on something overkill.

No one has mentioned high end NV that I have seen.  I laid out the brackets you should shop within.  Sounds like your friend is a causal user in the middle bracket.  Which bracket do you want to be in?  Every unit listed is best focused for new users.  You should ask your friend if he had 15k of other NV gear would he still have and use his unit?  I still have and use on occasion the m845 I bought when I was in college roughly 10 years ago and it still works great.  I have picked up a lot nicer gear along the way.  Ask in the hometown forum if someone will let you look through the NV they have for a case of beer.  That might help you more than talking with us.

Photon XT.... I have one on a 300 BO and have many a hog with it.   Is it thermal quality?  No. But is more than adequate for your application.

I bought one of the highly reviewed gen 1 rifle scopes and was surprised by how well it worked with a good IR light, passive use without the IR it was about the same as what I could see naked eye.
I was happy with it but couldnt shake the "what am I missing" thought.
I went the DIY route. Sold my gen1 for $300 (didnt take much of a loss) Bought a milspec pvs-14 housing for $650, then saved a couple checks with overtime money and bought a milspec omni VII autogated tube for cheap that had a outer field of view blemish.
I only have $1300 in it and it completely blows the gen1 and digital stuff ive seen out of the water. I dont even notice the blemish.

Buying the gen1 instantly got me in the game, but It never felt adequate....so then had to spend weeks waiting for it to sell.

Where there is a will there is a way. Im not a college kid but work my ass off welding for far less than what im worth and have 4 kids and a mortgage....but found the patience to build my pvs-14 on a budget.
I was told to skip the gen1's and digitals just a few months ago....and it sucked and felt like my parade was pissed on, I know you want to hear the lower end stuff will work out, but in the end youll be buying twice.... I just went through your delima.

I would say....save up and even think about the DIY route with a blem tube if your handy like i did.

No worries. I was a bit reactionary myself. Honestly we are just trying to save you some of your hard earned cash. Modern gen1 is basically crap that needs an illumniator. It has 0 resale value, I wouldn't pay more than 100 bucks for any commercial gen1 scope and most guys wouldn't either. A used 845, you can probably sell it for near what you bought it (or more) depending on the market at the time.

I see several folks here spoke up about the 845, and thanks to Vic for posting an old image. Most people who take vid or photos of their units usually do a poor job so the real life image always look better, but Vic is an expert at it and provides great representative pictures.

Honestly image quality is going to be fine for your stated purpose. The m845's used decent gen2 tubes for their day, and modern gen2 is somewhat better, but its not a night and day difference.

Mag wise, 1.5 or 2.5x I don't think its a deal breaker. The 1.5x will look "brighter" than the 2.5x since its loosing less light (for a given lens system more mag = less light is an oversimplified way of thinking about it) Its basically like using an NV aimpoint its very fast and easy to use.

If you really feel like you need magnification step up to a PVS-4. But its significantly larger, heavier and bulkier. But repair parts/spare tubes can still be had.

IF you don't have 800 bucks...
You could try older Gen1 cascade units. These will work better than "modern" gen1 since they have 3 tubes in them that allow them to actually be used without an illumniator. The biggest issue is actually mounting one to a gun it wasn't designed to be used on.

PVS-2, I don't really recommend these much, they are huge, hard to zero, but they were designed to be offset mounted (side) with an AR carry handle. They tend to work better on the M14 IMO, since it has more mass. depending on the tube/era these can have some distortion but most have been rebuilt with better tubes, so basically no distortion.  ~500

Ferro Z51, designed for the G3 series of weapons but it is stanag compliant, so you can get a rail mount for them IIRC. ~700 +100 for the mount most likely. These are some of the best gen1 TC scopes built, very little image distortion.

If you have an AK, a 1pn34, or 1pn58 and their cousins aren't the worlds worst choice for 300-500 bucks. Again, gen1 triple cascade. These will have serious fisheye though (only the center of view is usable), and are basically non-repairable if they go tits up. They will mount to any combloc side rail mount. I don't really recommend em due to the lack of repair-ability, but they are cheap and they do work (make sure it works before buying).