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Posted: 5/23/2017 3:19:32 PM EDT
Looking to get into the NV game in a year or so and I was looking at getting either the Gen 3+ White phosphorous PVS-14s or the White Phosphorous Sentinels from TNVC... or wait a few more months and get the PVS-21s
For those that have tried either or both of the first two, do you prefer to have the ability to move one monocular to the side, or are the dedicated binos a better investment overall? As as a side note, are the PVS-21s substantially better than both with a traditional cheek weld and is the image quality the same or better? Price isn't really an issue, just would like firsthand feedback on the above systems. |
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[#1]
I like the option of being able to separate an individual tube and hand it to a friend / family member so I went with dual PVS14s (photo in avatar). That along with being able to flip up or remove a PVS14 tube and use a thermal optic (handheld monocular or my rifle mounted thermal scope) are the two main reasons I didn't get a binocular device.
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[#2]
I own two pvs-14s and have never mounted them on the same rig. Looking through both at the same time is very cool, but it's also nice to have some night-adapted vision working with the image intensification.
My suggestion would be to grab one '14 and all the accompaniments, hell, get a really good one- and take a low light class before deciding if you want binocular i2 or the ability to use the other eye for something different. |
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[#3]
Another option is the mod3 bravo. I am saving for the mod3 bravo's now as you get a goggle rig that can separate the pods into individual monocular's like a dual 14 setup but with allot less weight. Just another option thrown out there.
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[#4]
Ive never tried the PVS-21.
I have looked through white phosphor sentinel binoculars before and it was stunning, but at $9k+ there is no way thats going to happen. https://tnvc.com/shop/tnv-sentinel-binocular-night-vision-system-l-3-un-filmed-white-phosphor/ As a civilian who has to buy his own gear a PVS-14 is what I own and is more than sufficient for my needs and at a price I can afford without selling a organ. |
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[#5]
Quoted:
Another option is the mod3 bravo. I am saving for the mod3 bravo's now as you get a goggle rig that can separate the pods into individual monocular's like a dual 14 setup but with allot less weight. Just another option thrown out there. View Quote If you want the ability to separate them I would get the Mod 3 before two PVS14's. If you don't need to separate them get the Sentinels. |
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[#6]
Hmmm, the MOD 3 Bravos look like the best of both worlds. I imagine manual gain control is the preferred option correct? Also side by side, how is the image quality vs the other two options?
Mod 3 Bravo PVS -14 Sentinel |
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[#7]
Quoted:
Hmmm, the MOD 3 Bravos look like the best of both worlds. I imagine manual gain control is the preferred option correct? Also side by side, how is the image quality vs the other two options? Mod 3 Bravo PVS -14 Sentinel View Quote |
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[#8]
Quoted:
I'm pretty sure they all use the same gen 3 image intensifying tubes, just in different housings. So they will all be of the same quality. More of your personal preference for a monocular or binocular. And if you go binocular do you want the ability to take the tubes off, keep in mind this would mean needing a second helmet, mount, and various other accessories easily costing hundreds or even thousands of dollars. So how often will a friend borrow your second tube and how much would you be willing to pay to hook them up. I personally just tell my friends to go buy their own. View Quote And as far as weight balance and neck strain is concerned, which is preferrable a ballistic helmet like the Ops Core FAST or a lightweight one like the Ops Core FAST Carbon Bump? |
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[#9]
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All my friends make at least 60k, so I'm telling them to buy their own shit. I always let them try out my stuff though. And as far as weight balance and neck strain is concerned, which is preferrable a ballistic helmet like the Ops Core FAST or a lightweight one like the Ops Core FAST Carbon Bump? View Quote |
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[#10]
Quoted:
Depends are you ever going to be getting shot at? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
All my friends make at least 60k, so I'm telling them to buy their own shit. I always let them try out my stuff though. And as far as weight balance and neck strain is concerned, which is preferrable a ballistic helmet like the Ops Core FAST or a lightweight one like the Ops Core FAST Carbon Bump? If you are a non-martial user of the BNVD then the lighter weight of the Carbon Helmet will help with neck strain a little provided it is counterweighted properly. A Ballistic Helmet tends to require a little less counterweight because of the overall weighting of the ballistic material around the circumference of the skull. Additionally the Carbon Helmet comes factory standard with a very good Halo type suspension system that puts the standard ACH chinstrap to shame. The ACH can be upgraded but this comes at a significant cost so don't think that an equivalent ballistic option is a bargain compared to the Carbon Helmet. |
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[#11]
Sentinel for sure if you want duel googles. PVS-14 is a good monocular though. But two PVS-14's is very front heavy and I wouldn't recommend it. I personally just have one PVS-14 helmet mounted since it's cheaper and works well. If you have the money and want depth perception, then yeah get the Sentinel
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[#12]
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leo84 covered the most important point but I would like to add: If you are a non-martial user of the BNVD then the lighter weight of the Carbon Helmet will help with neck strain a little provided it is counterweighted properly. A Ballistic Helmet tends to require a little less counterweight because of the overall weighting of the ballistic material around the circumference of the skull. Additionally the Carbon Helmet comes factory standard with a very good Halo type suspension system that puts the standard ACH chinstrap to shame. The ACH can be upgraded but this comes at a significant cost so don't think that an equivalent ballistic option is a bargain compared to the Carbon Helmet. View Quote |
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[#13]
I Recommend not pairing PVS-14's, its 2x the weight of a dedicated dual tube system and after you incorporate a bridge system and dovetail mount its the same price as something like a MOD3, that will split apart.
The 2 to 1 capability is kind of cool, but the Mod3 will never be as rugged as the Sentinel, which so far seem to be the number 1 dual tube system out there in terms of built like a tank ruggedness. |
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[#14]
Owning both, I don't completely understand the claims of the more advanced ruggedness of the Sentinel. Sam, I know you have also used both and likely seen more extreme usage on both bino's. How and where did the MOD3's fail?
That being said, if I do not need to split them, I do prefer the overall design of the sentinel better - it is sleek and feels less busy. |
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[#15]
Quoted:
Owning both, I don't completely understand the claims of the more advanced ruggedness of the Sentinel. Sam, I know you have also used both and likely seen more extreme usage on both bino's. How and where did the MOD3's fail? That being said, if I do not need to split them, I do prefer the overall design of the sentinel better - it is sleek and feels less busy. View Quote By and Large most of the hard use that is put on dual tube systems is done by State and Local LE SWAt teams we outfit. Including our local SWAT Team for Jacksonville FL, its a full time 30 man team that is, believe it or not, one of the most squared away teams in the South, if not the country, they probably have over 150 call outs a year not including scheduled high risk warrant stuff and Standby QRF for large events held within the city. As of now over half the team is running Sentinels and have been for about 2 years without one single issue, in addition the Dive Team/ Maritime unit is also outfitted with Sentinels for their ops in and around the St. Johns river and the large port facility we have in Jax. The mod3 and Sentinels share many of the same features but the fixed bridge is sturdier, any one who gets to hold the two will immediately notice the difference. The Sentinels are stiff and rigid with no wobble, while the MOD3 wobbles slightly as the tolerances of the eye pods and bridge must be so to accomodate them sliding on and off. the MOD3 is also taller than the Sentinel and less low profile when stowed in the up position on a helmet, and weigh about 2 ounzes more than a Sentinel. One other thing that I noticed while comparing MOD3's to Sentinels is during offroad courses on ATV's or Jeeps on particularly bumpy sections of roads at high speed the MOD3's will flickers on and off due to the spring loaded contacts on the eye pods bouncing around, this isnt a huge issue but your screen goes black for a tenth of a sec here and there which is somewhat noticeable . |
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[#16]
The Sentinels are looking better after reading up more on the uses of both monocular and binocular systems. Since this will mostly be for home defense or hog hunting, and a few classes, I don't feel that I really need the one eye with night adapted vision or to gauge the ambient light, since I don't live in the city. Also I like my depth perception .
How well do these things sit behind an aimpoint T1 while mounted on a ops core carbon fast? |
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[#17]
Quoted:
The Sentinels are looking better after reading up more on the uses of both monocular and binocular systems. Since this will mostly be for home defense or hog hunting, and a few classes, I don't feel that I really need the one eye with night adapted vision or to gauge the ambient light, since I don't live in the city. Also I like my depth perception . How well do these things sit behind an aimpoint T1 while mounted on a ops core carbon fast? View Quote |
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[#18]
Quoted:
MOD3 fails have been non existant, they are well designed and assembled units, but there are some things to take into account. Any time you incorporate moving parts, such as individual eye pod articulation or the ability to remove from the bridge you are creating a weak point, features vs ruggedness. I ask folks right out of the gate and if they say they are rough on their equipment then my recommendation is to stick with Sentinels. By and Large most of the hard use that is put on dual tube systems is done by State and Local LE SWAt teams we outfit. Including our local SWAT Team for Jacksonville FL, its a full time 30 man team that is, believe it or not, one of the most squared away teams in the South, if not the country, they probably have over 150 call outs a year not including scheduled high risk warrant stuff and Standby QRF for large events held within the city. As of now over half the team is running Sentinels and have been for about 2 years without one single issue, in addition the Dive Team/ Maritime unit is also outfitted with Sentinels for their ops in and around the St. Johns river and the large port facility we have in Jax. The mod3 and Sentinels share many of the same features but the fixed bridge is sturdier, any one who gets to hold the two will immediately notice the difference. The Sentinels are stiff and rigid with no wobble, while the MOD3 wobbles slightly as the tolerances of the eye pods and bridge must be so to accomodate them sliding on and off. the MOD3 is also taller than the Sentinel and less low profile when stowed in the up position on a helmet, and weigh about 2 ounzes more than a Sentinel. One other thing that I noticed while comparing MOD3's to Sentinels is during offroad courses on ATV's or Jeeps on particularly bumpy sections of roads at high speed the MOD3's will flickers on and off due to the spring loaded contacts on the eye pods bouncing around, this isnt a huge issue but your screen goes black for a tenth of a sec here and there which is somewhat noticeable . View Quote I fully agree that the Sentinels are lower profile and the design just feels more refined in hand. I just keep reading claims of Sentinels being "stronger" yet I am not finding any cases of cracks or failures on the MOD3 to substantiate that claim. I just wasn't sure if you ran into something. Early on, the mounting point with the pods was always a concern of mine, but it has held up fine. |
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[#19]
My MODS have some play, (they are newer)but do not turn off, but not I had them on any ATV's or hard driving.
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[#20]
My MOD3s flicker constantly during ATV driving.
I have not MOD3s gain and non, and Sentinels. I prefer the MOD3s but that's because I remove one pod often. |
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[#21]
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[#22]
Quoted:
We covered this issue a bit in this thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/476217_New-to-NV--School-Me.html View Quote |
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[#23]
Quoted:
I own two pvs-14s and have never mounted them on the same rig. Looking through both at the same time is very cool, but it's also nice to have some night-adapted vision working with the image intensification. My suggestion would be to grab one '14 and all the accompaniments, hell, get a really good one- and take a low light class before deciding if you want binocular i2 or the ability to use the other eye for something different. View Quote |
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[#24]
Quoted:
This. I had 2 14s on a bridge mount at one time. Yes u gain a little more fov, but it seemed the right one got in the way when flipped up and using a clip on in front of day scope or thermal. Having a night adapted eye and being able to switch to no nods without having to flip up is extremely nice. Plus, by the time u get counter weights to balance it out, it becomes fairly heavy and ackward. View Quote |
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[#25]
Quoted:
This. I had 2 14s on a bridge mount at one time. Yes u gain a little more fov, but it seemed the right one got in the way when flipped up and using a clip on in front of day scope or thermal. Having a night adapted eye and being able to switch to no nods without having to flip up is extremely nice. Plus, by the time u get counter weights to balance it out, it becomes fairly heavy and ackward. View Quote |
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[#26]
Quoted:
What you actually gain is precieved spatial awareness. Not depth perception or FOV. We humans (at least conservatives) are predators by nature and our eyes face forward in our head giving us binocular vision, we are used to taking in our surroundings with both eyes, when you remove that (think PVS-14) its very unnatural and takes some time and training to get over that, going to a dual tube setup gives you back the natural ability to look and interact with the world much more naturally and we do not have to concentrate quite as much at doing normal tasks. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
This. I had 2 14s on a bridge mount at one time. Yes u gain a little more fov, but it seemed the right one got in the way when flipped up and using a clip on in front of day scope or thermal. Having a night adapted eye and being able to switch to no nods without having to flip up is extremely nice. Plus, by the time u get counter weights to balance it out, it becomes fairly heavy and ackward. |
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[#27]
Quoted:
What you actually gain is precieved spatial awareness. Not depth perception or FOV. We humans (at least conservatives) are predators by nature and our eyes face forward in our head giving us binocular vision, we are used to taking in our surroundings with both eyes, when you remove that (think PVS-14) its very unnatural and takes some time and training to get over that, going to a dual tube setup gives you back the natural ability to look and interact with the world much more naturally and we do not have to concentrate quite as much at doing normal tasks. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
This. I had 2 14s on a bridge mount at one time. Yes u gain a little more fov, but it seemed the right one got in the way when flipped up and using a clip on in front of day scope or thermal. Having a night adapted eye and being able to switch to no nods without having to flip up is extremely nice. Plus, by the time u get counter weights to balance it out, it becomes fairly heavy and ackward. |
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[#28]
Quoted:
My many years training on and using the anvis9's I agree. It's physics really, if you have two 40 degree field of view devices in parallel point at the same thing they are going to get a 40 degree view of the same thing thus no increase view with them lined up. Now in the case of the GPNVG with 40 degree tubes pointing different directions and using some magic to bring the tubes together then you get more than the 40 degree view of the tubes. View Quote Stating the obvious here, but for very close by objects you do gain a little FOV due to the separation of the tubes, but only some |
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[#29]
Quoted:
I guess many might feel you gain some FOV as you don't feel as restricted anymore, probably because it just feels more natural like Sam said. Stating the obvious here, but for very close by objects you do gain a little FOV due to the separation of the tubes, but only some centimeters horizontally at a distance of one meter or two. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
My many years training on and using the anvis9's I agree. It's physics really, if you have two 40 degree field of view devices in parallel point at the same thing they are going to get a 40 degree view of the same thing thus no increase view with them lined up. Now in the case of the GPNVG with 40 degree tubes pointing different directions and using some magic to bring the tubes together then you get more than the 40 degree view of the tubes. Stating the obvious here, but for very close by objects you do gain a little FOV due to the separation of the tubes, but only some centimeters horizontally at a distance of one meter or two. But yes I agree it does feel less restrictive and more natural for our brain to work with. When I spend a long time without using my personal 14's it feels strange to say the least for the first few minutes when I get them on again then I adjust and feels more natural. If I have a long time between using the anvis at work and then get behind them I don't have that awkward feeling from not using them for a while. |
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[#30]
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