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Posted: 4/17/2017 7:53:40 PM EDT
[#1]
One of the truly great aspects of all of Flir's 12 micron BOSON cores is addition to getting the actual specified unit, you will also be getting free downloadable upgrades on both the firmware and the software enhancements for the next ten plus years as the intricacies of the core and all of its features are teased out by electrical engineers as they mature, including AI features currently unimaginable.
So, in reality ,you will be getting much much more that you know nothing about for free! 
Even Nancy Pelosi would be jealous. 
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Posted: 4/17/2017 8:10:10 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is there an additional lens that can be purchased for the Q14b to add magnification? Can that same lens be used on the Q14C? B. Do not know. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 8:12:51 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
JRH already has two pages of specs on the Q14B on his webpage which has got me asking these questions in the first place. . Their listed specifications state both 2X and 4X digital magnification if you somehow missed that? |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 9:03:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
JRH already has two pages of specs on the Q14B on his webpage which has got me asking these questions in the first place. I like the super tiny, powerful, blah blah blah, aspects of this device. It would be great to have for a spare or loaner for a buddy to use while hunting with me. Does using software to set the magnification at 1X on this particular unit allow for no loss or distortion of resolution when zooming in? Or conversely does it allow you to have significantly greater resolution at base magnification? Thanks. I assume they have this data on their website also but I have not checked. Just tried the "click here to attach an image" and use that to attach the .pdf to this post but it said .pdf was not a valid extension. I'm more than happy to email that .pdf to someone if they want to post it. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 9:05:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have you given JRH a call to talk about the questions yet? Their listed specifications state both 2X and 4X digital magnification is you somehow missed that? Yes I am aware the 320 units have 2x and 4x zoom. I appreciate the knowledgeable and timely information that can be learned from discussing and asking questions here. Isn't that the point of these web forums? Thanks. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 9:26:17 PM EDT
[#6]
It sure is, but Nancy Pelosi would not approve no matter how many times you all bring up her name in this discussion about the QA14B.
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Posted: 4/17/2017 11:04:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Im not a numbers guy...
Or a professional hog hunter... Or an electro-optics engineer... And I definetly didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night... What dOes the narrow FOV mean in practical application? I know my pvs-14 has a much larger FOV...and it seems kind of narrow sometimes....how bad is this gonna suck to have a 1x thermal monocular with less than a 15 degree FOV? Is the narrow FOV going to make scanning difficult pr time consuming? Is this the type of thing where it would be wise to wait for the 640 core? I have never even looked through a thermal scope....I know so little about them, i'm not even sure if i'm supposed to be disappointed or not. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 11:21:41 PM EDT
[#8]
For me hunting at night, FOV is everything because it is everything I am able to see/detect, the more the better, without it I see nothing.
Trade off between objective lens size as always in any ocular device no matter if it is day optic or night optic..... |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 5:20:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My FLIR rep said "we hope for the end of April" which I translated to be probably June
The 640 is evidently still a long way on the horizon. TAB173WN8Q14001 - Q14-B TIM 320 (30Hz) Thermal Imaging Multi-Purpose Monocular, FLIR Boson - 320x256 (12µm) 30Hz Core Retail $1995.00 Some answers to questions I asked re: magnification, use as a clip on and helmet mounting- These are already pre-selling very well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
My FLIR rep said "we hope for the end of April" which I translated to be probably June
The 640 is evidently still a long way on the horizon. TAB173WN8Q14001 - Q14-B TIM 320 (30Hz) Thermal Imaging Multi-Purpose Monocular, FLIR Boson - 320x256 (12µm) 30Hz Core Retail $1995.00 Some answers to questions I asked re: magnification, use as a clip on and helmet mounting- It is 1X and it does have a reticle which can be turned off when you use the unit as a monocular. However, in order to use it as a clip-on you need a different unit - Thermosight C which comes with special optics.
For PVS-14 type mounts you will need an optional adapter #37. 1x optical mag just doesn't add up. In general, system optical mag is the ratio of the field of view of the display as seen by the observer to the field of view of the camera/lens. Riflescope displays are typically about 40 degrees wide. Assuming this little beauty is similar, and the camera/lens FOV is 12 degrees, then system mag should be about 3.3X. Perhaps someone confused optical mag with 1/f number (Q14B lens is f/1.0). |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 6:24:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everyone keeps mentioning the Q14b has a 1x optical mag. Where is this listed 'cause I'm not finding it. 1x optical mag just doesn't add up. In general, system optical mag is the ratio of the field of view of the display as seen by the observer to the field of view of the camera/lens. Riflescope displays are typically about 40 degrees wide. Assuming this little beauty is similar, and the camera/lens FOV is 12 degrees, then system mag should be about 3.3X. Perhaps someone confused optical mag with 1/f number (Q14B lens is f/1.0). "Optical Magnification 1X" Digital zoom- 2x, 4x On the 320 and 2x, 4x 8x on the 640 Outside of that I'm not sure. Feel free to email me and I'll email you back a copy of the data sheet I was sent. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 6:38:45 PM EDT
[#11]
Does this family of imagers have something similar to L3's Hot Target Level Mode?
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Posted: 4/19/2017 12:39:26 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everyone keeps mentioning the Q14b has a 1x optical mag. Where is this listed 'cause I'm not finding it. 1x optical mag just doesn't add up. In general, system optical mag is the ratio of the field of view of the display as seen by the observer to the field of view of the camera/lens. Riflescope displays are typically about 40 degrees wide. Assuming this little beauty is similar, and the camera/lens FOV is 12 degrees, then system mag should be about 3.3X. Perhaps someone confused optical mag with 1/f number (Q14B lens is f/1.0). The display and eyepiece lenses also play a factor in the magnification, but FOV is set by the detector pitch and front lens focal point. 19mm is high for a 12u core, which narrows the fov. 24 degree fov should be about right, but time will tell when it hits the street how the end user likes it. If FOV is around 24 I will get one , but if around 12 degree FOV I will stick with what I currently use. |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 12:42:27 PM EDT
[#13]
http://www.flir.com/ots/q14/
FLIR has some specs on their site, looks like 25x19 degrees for the 320 and 33x26 degrees for the 640 edit: Q14b monocular, not the clip-on. The clip-on sight above looks very similar to the Q14b, and I'm not seeing it on the sight yet. |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 1:44:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.flir.com/ots/q14/ FLIR has some specs on their site, looks like 25x19 degrees for the 320 and 33x26 degrees for the 640 edit: Q14b monocular, not the clip-on. The clip-on sight above looks very similar to the Q14b, and I'm not seeing it on the sight yet. I think this link has better information on it. http://www.flirmedia.com/MMC/CVS/OTS/OTS_016/OTS_016_US.pdf |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 3:34:09 PM EDT
[#15]
From what I now understand, the Q14B with the 320 core will have the Boson 9.1mm lens, which has a HFOV of 24 degrees, and an optical mag of about 2x. The 640 version will have the 19mm lens shown in the original photo. The 19mm 640 "should" provide a FOV of about 22 degrees so (in theory) optical mag should also be about 2x. Both lenses are f/1.0.
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Posted: 4/19/2017 7:16:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From what I now understand, the Q14B with the 320 core will have the Boson 9.1mm lens, which has a HFOV of 24 degrees, and an optical mag of about 2x. The 640 version will have the 19mm lens shown in the original photo. The 19mm 640 "should" provide a FOV of about 22 degrees so (in theory) optical mag should also be about 2x. Both lenses are f/1.0. |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 9:11:05 AM EDT
[#17]
Are there any screen grabs or videos comparing the Q14B line to the new Pulsar devices, or even the existing FLIR / Aramasight lineup that is still being sold with the older cores?
Releasing a 320 resolution device and saying it looks like current 640 offerings is a fairly bold claim. I am just wondering if there are any side by side videos or screenshots indicating this. |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 9:15:23 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From what I now understand, the Q14B with the 320 core will have the Boson 9.1mm lens, which has a HFOV of 24 degrees, and an optical mag of about 2x. The 640 version will have the 19mm lens shown in the original photo. The 19mm 640 "should" provide a FOV of about 22 degrees so (in theory) optical mag should also be about 2x. Both lenses are f/1.0. Thanks for the update. |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 12:17:22 PM EDT
[#19]
We have been told from the hire ups any spec sheets are not finalized so we are electing not to post. We will have more information at NRA next week.
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Posted: 4/20/2017 12:23:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are there any screen grabs or videos comparing the Q14B line to the new Pulsar devices, or even the existing FLIR / Aramasight lineup that is still being sold with the older cores? Releasing a 320 resolution device and saying it looks like current 640 offerings is a fairly bold claim. I am just wondering if there are any side by side videos or screenshots indicating this. I am not holding my breath, but I really hope that its true. |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 12:33:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are there any screen grabs or videos comparing the Q14B line to the new Pulsar devices, or even the existing FLIR / Aramasight lineup that is still being sold with the older cores? Releasing a 320 resolution device and saying it looks like current 640 offerings is a fairly bold claim. I am just wondering if there are any side by side videos or screenshots indicating this. The 320 Boson does look as good as most current 640 units and weighs considerably less. |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 12:49:35 PM EDT
[#22]
I appreciate the reply, but that does nothing to help answer the question. Even if they don't compare to a competitor's product, they have a lot of existing Armasight and FLIR product still on the shelves with the older 320 and 640 cores. I would love to even see the comparison against those cores. What are they going to do to retailers who have a bunch of existing stock of devices with older cores?
Nobody is going to pay 6k for an Armasight Zeus 640 17 micron Tau2 core if the new 320 12 micron Boson core is comparable at 3k. I just find it really hard to pre-order anything without some real data. This is not directed at you Skypup, but more at FLIR in general. I am currently in the market for a new device, and I want to see data and reviews before I consider Pulsar or something from Trijicon. Is anyone aware of any independent reviews of this core against anything currently being produced? |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 12:59:21 PM EDT
[#23]
I'll review mine when I get them, however there currently are no Boson cores in anybody's hands as of yet to be making direct comparisons to anything currently marketed, that will all change soon enough.
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Posted: 4/20/2017 1:11:15 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One of the truly great aspects of all of Flir's 12 micron BOSON cores is addition to getting the actual specified unit, you will also be getting free downloadable upgrades on both the firmware and the software enhancements for the next ten plus years as the intricacies of the core and all of its features are teased out by electrical engineers as they mature, including AI features currently unimaginable.
So, in reality ,you will be getting much much more that you know nothing about for free!
Even Nancy Pelosi would be jealous. How many updates have they done for the Scout series? How many new features came out for those? My understanding is zero, and they have user upgradable firmware. Shit, Armasight REMOVED features from their Zeus Pro, namely the GPS. FLIR can't even bring itself to update its website and the Armasight guy I spoke to thought "maybe this summer" it might be updated. The only thing we have to go on is drips and drabs from an industry insider on arfcom, and we're supposed to believe that mind blowing new features will just be rolled out to all? Tau 2 has been out for years and years as well, how many updates did they do? Looking at their posted core matrix, the Tau 2 went through several hardware revisions as well. I could be wrong but I think it's BIG talk to say that the initial Boson release will support all upcoming features for 10+ years. -Stooxie |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 3:22:03 PM EDT
[#25]
I dove in head first (last week). It will be my first personal FLIR unit. I'm very excited to see what ends up on my doorstep.
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Posted: 4/20/2017 3:48:24 PM EDT
[#26]
Every time I made an offer recently on a thermal imager, I made the sincere recommendation that the seller consider my apparently excessively lowball offer due to the impending release of the new cores. They all balked and now, weeks later, they are all beating down my door to get me to honor the offers I made that they invalidated once they rejected them.
I gave up with all of that BS and got on the waiting list for the new offering from FLIR. I have zero fear that they will pull a Gruber and publicly state that the only reason that I bought one is because I am stupid. |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 4:08:11 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every time I made an offer recently on a thermal imager, I made the sincere recommendation that the seller consider my apparently excessively lowball offer due to the impending release of the new cores. They all balked and now, weeks later, they are all beating down my door to get me to honor the offers I made that they invalidated once they rejected them. I gave up with all of that BS and got on the waiting list for the new offering from FLIR. I have zero fear that they will pull a Gruber and publicly state that the only reason that I bought one is because I am stupid.  I've never been accused of being smart. But...I can be a lot of fun.
I guess we'll find out together. |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 4:10:43 PM EDT
[#28]
I just have concerns - that is all. I need to see pictures and images. From a business perspective, I find it really hard to believe that they would rush these to market if they compete with the current lineup of 640 devices. Resellers would lose a ton of $ on existing stock unless they had massive manufacturer rebates.
As I said, claiming that the 320 12 Micron Bosin is on par with 640 offerings has me a little skeptical without any proof. What 640's is it comparable to? I know the Scout / RS line has some pretty lousy LCD displays so maybe the 320 12 micron core with an OLED display meets or exceeds the RS64 with its 17 micron sensor and crappy LCD display - which would be a worthy claim, but why would anyone spend $3,000+ on the Scout/RS when they could spend 2k on the Q14B? Since I am in the market, I truly hope I'm wrong, and the Q14B is outstanding. I am hopefully optimistic that Skypup will have some videos, pictures, and specs soon. I would love to see it compared to other products or even FLIR / Armasight's current offerings for 2016-2017. |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 7:54:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This I find very hard to believe given FLIR's past history, or at least MY past history with both FLIR and Armasight. They are not consumer oriented companies, are they suddenly going to start spitting out cool new features that don't have some direct LEO/military purpose or, more likely, a stated requirement in an RFP? That would represent quite the philosophical departure. How many updates have they done for the Scout series? How many new features came out for those? My understanding is zero, and they have user upgradable firmware. Shit, Armasight REMOVED features from their Zeus Pro, namely the GPS. FLIR can't even bring itself to update its website and the Armasight guy I spoke to thought "maybe this summer" it might be updated. The only thing we have to go on is drips and drabs from an industry insider on arfcom, and we're supposed to believe that mind blowing new features will just be rolled out to all? Tau 2 has been out for years and years as well, how many updates did they do? Looking at their posted core matrix, the Tau 2 went through several hardware revisions as well. I could be wrong but I think it's BIG talk to say that the initial Boson release will support all upcoming features for 10+ years. -Stooxie I tend to agree that when the Boson-based products come out, they won't be as full-featured as FLIR has planned. And to say the 320 will be as good or better than the Tau640, I'll belive it when I see it. It wil be better than the Tau320 though. My guess is the design teams are still (and will continue) making tweaks to image quality. This is most likely why there hasn't been any competitor comparisons. And I have 100% confidence that field upgrades will be available as things continue to improve. |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 8:48:24 PM EDT
[#30]
The Graded Fire palette required a whole new product (Scout III), aka another $3,500. Hardly a firmware upgrade!
-Stooxie |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 10:09:47 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every time I made an offer recently on a thermal imager, I made the sincere recommendation that the seller consider my apparently excessively lowball offer due to the impending release of the new cores. They all balked and now, weeks later, they are all beating down my door to get me to honor the offers I made that they invalidated once they rejected them. The Bosun core is the beginning of Pentium 2 and it's gonna be hot...until Pentium 3. |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 10:22:17 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just have concerns - that is all. I need to see pictures and images. From a business perspective, I find it really hard to believe that they would rush these to market if they compete with the current lineup of 640 devices. Resellers would lose a ton of $ on existing stock unless they had massive manufacturer rebates. snip. Or you could look at the handwriting on the wall and sell all or most of your thermal inventory and keep a wait and see approach  Staying fluid and retaining the initiative in business is usually a good plan.
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Posted: 4/20/2017 11:20:49 PM EDT
[#33]
will the c version be released at the same time as the b version ?
is there any guesstimate on the price of the c vs the b ? |
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Posted: 4/21/2017 7:57:27 AM EDT
[#34]
I love thermal tech but it seems like a very volatile time to be into it. I'm going to stick with ITT for awhile and wait for things to settle down. I think the computer analogy is exactly right. With that said, I'm interested to learn more about this new one.
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Posted: 4/21/2017 8:42:12 AM EDT
[#35]
Totally agree. I've been holding off on thermal due to the FLIR/Armasight relationship and the poor C/S and the Trijicon/IR Defense acquisition. I really want a REAP-IR, but may go with a Pulsar Trail XP50, because Pulsar seems to be the only stable option with good customer service.
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Posted: 4/21/2017 9:16:48 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Graded Fire palette required a whole new product (Scout III), aka another $3,500. Hardly a firmware upgrade! -Stooxie
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Posted: 4/21/2017 10:02:19 AM EDT
[#37]
Graded fire is nice. I hope it makes it to these new units. It's not listed currently in the spec sheet.
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Posted: 4/21/2017 10:56:34 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
will the c version be released at the same time as the b version ? is there any guesstimate on the price of the c vs the b ? |
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Posted: 4/21/2017 12:01:36 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Graded Fire palette required a whole new product (Scout III), aka another $3,500. Hardly a firmware upgrade! -Stooxie |
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Posted: 4/21/2017 1:11:31 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I want to know as well. Anyone care to take a guess? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
will the c version be released at the same time as the b version ? is there any guesstimate on the price of the c vs the b ? Since there are about 30 new BOSON products being released, yes.
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Posted: 4/21/2017 1:13:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
True, sort of. If a Scout II owner called FLIR and asked to have the Graded Fire palette installed in their system, they would do it (at least back before support was transferred to their Boston facility). Just ask SkyPup. Point is, it didn't require a hardware upgrade. |
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Posted: 4/21/2017 3:51:21 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Graded Fire palette required a whole new product (Scout III), aka another $3,500. Hardly a firmware upgrade! -Stooxie This lookup table is used to define what sensor value is assigned a shade or color. The values in the lookup table are what makes the different preset "pallettes". No hardware needed to implement this, just rewrite the lookup tables. But marketing it and calling it something new for more $$$$ is another story 
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Posted: 4/21/2017 4:26:07 PM EDT
[#43]
Ok, perhaps I'm just not speaking English.
I understand that a color palette is a trivial thing to implement, I was simply stating that FLIR never mentioned (when I owned an LS-X) that the palettes could be upgraded. Yes, I called them. Where does it indicate anywhere that they could do it? Of course I know that it doesn't require new hardware. What I am saying is that considering how forthcoming FLIR has been in the past with such things, I find it a very tall tale to believe that it's all gonna be different with the new products. I'm not trying to be the naysayer, just that the talk around here is huge while the facts are almost zero and the history is actually contrary. Unless FLIR has a total change of heart with regard to consumer markets (and they may!) I remain skeptical of all the new features raining down from the heavens. -Stooxie |
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Posted: 4/21/2017 7:25:44 PM EDT
[#44]
It was simply a FREE software upgrade easily downloadble and installed by any end-user for free!
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Posted: 4/22/2017 7:41:41 PM EDT
[#45]
Saw these pop up on brownells today
320 - $1995 Brownells - FLIR - Q14-B TIM 320 640 - $3995 Brownells: FLIR - Q14-B TIM 640  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 4/22/2017 9:00:22 PM EDT
[#46]
Flir is going to sell the piss out of these things!!!
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Posted: 4/22/2017 9:24:42 PM EDT
[#47]
if they can ever release them. :-)
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Posted: 4/22/2017 9:38:41 PM EDT
[#48]
They are already pre- selling well, but as noted they are not shipping from FLIR for a while yet. In other words, don't believe the "zero days to ship" BS, LMAO.
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Posted: 4/24/2017 9:53:19 AM EDT
[#49]
Still waiting on the estimated price of the 320 core Q14C and magnifier lens
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Posted: 4/24/2017 10:17:36 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are already pre- selling well, but as noted they are not shipping from FLIR for a while yet. In other words, don't believe the "zero days to ship" BS, LMAO. |
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