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Posted: 3/31/2017 10:04:12 AM EDT
I have a FLIR LS64 handheld scanner, Gen 3 PVS 14 and a Gen 3 D740 manual gain NV scope.  Should my next purchase be an IR laser or dedicated thermal scope?  My use is for coyote hunting.  While the new thermals are tempting, for small game (not hogs) hunting purposes, I question their usefulness.  I already have the FLIR for detection.  With a thermal scope, sure I'll see a small blob, but sure don't want to shoot something I don't want to.  Should I stick with the detection of the FLIR and identification of the NV and add an IR laser for aiming with the PVS 14 or go with a thermal scope?  The one benefit I see with the thermal is once positively ID'd the thermal allows for quick target acquisition.  If thermal, choose FOV over detail?
Link Posted: 3/31/2017 10:27:31 AM EDT
[#1]
unless you get GOOD thermal you are doing it right, locate with thermal and ID with NV.  The IR lasers are good for CQ but not sure of the usefulness in hunting.  Guys with more experience can speak better to the hunting value I am sure.
Link Posted: 3/31/2017 10:47:05 AM EDT
[#2]
Before I bought a thermal scope I ran a PVS14 and IR laser and when I take buddies hunting thats what I give them to use.

IMO, owning a PVS14 without an IR laser - your missing out, that is some fun hunting.

To play off of the Franks RedHot commercial: "IR lasers, I put that shit on everything"
Link Posted: 3/31/2017 11:02:38 AM EDT
[#3]
PVS-14 and IR laser go hand in hand for hunting, quick unexpected shots.

Walking to/from area you plan to hunt. I have the flir handheld units, as well as the IR hunter mkIII 60mm.
I still use the pvs14 and the IR laser for close in targets.
I would like to add the MV300 for thermal navigation as well as close range targeting.
The MKIII 60mm is a beast at long range ID, 200yds no problem, detection 700-1000yds no problem.
Link Posted: 3/31/2017 11:15:52 AM EDT
[#4]
Thanks for the replies.  I'll probably get the laser first.  Navigate with the PVS 14, stop and scan with the FLIR, when I see a target, I' ll try to get or call it closer and shoot it wit the PVS 14 and laser.  If he won't come and is within range, I'll go to the D740.  Obviously, there's a huge difference in price between a laser and a thermal scope, and the thermal scopes get better and cheaper every year, so waiting won't hurt.
Link Posted: 3/31/2017 11:35:13 AM EDT
[#5]
You are doing what I do, I just goto a MKIII 60mm vs you go to a d740.

Which both of us have a limited FOV with the 4-5x scopes.  But have a ~40 degree FOV with the PVS14.

I like navigating with thermal helmet mounted as any critters are seen immediately, vs when stopped and scanning.

But targeting close range is a problem with 4-5x scope. I need a variable 1-6x optical magnification thermal or a COTI setup
Link Posted: 3/31/2017 12:02:46 PM EDT
[#6]
The weight of there thermal scope on the gun is a detractor for me.  I am moving to PVS14 for nav and IR LAM for execution.  Will keep my XD19 thermal for scanning and far-target acquisition.
Link Posted: 4/1/2017 1:51:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Sell the nv scope and scanner and get a Reap-ir.
Link Posted: 4/3/2017 5:45:07 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Sell the nv scope and scanner and get a Reap-ir.
View Quote


Personally, I would never ditch NV capability for thermal as it has too many uses in the field- some of which thermal either can't do or does poorly.  Driving a vehicle with a windshield comes to mind- can't do that with thermal.  I suppose if you are just going to stay in one place hunting animals and don't care about getting into or out of the field without the use of white light, then one could justify selling the NV gear to fund going 100% thermal.  However, if you want to successfully and safely navigate undetected at night and retain the upper hand against not only against critters but also two-legged threats I just can't see not having a well-performing helmet-mounted NVD in the kit.  Others may and probably will feel different, but this is my view after spending a good amount of time using this gear with other similarly equipped individuals.  That's been the greatest benefit to our activities- we're in the field discovering the best equipment and techniques for the task at hand.  Actually, I can't get enough of this stuff!  

The good news is that whatever you decide I don't think you'll have an issue enjoying yourself.  Just don't forsake that NV capability merely to make the thermal happen quicker, as I believe you'd be best suited having both- in true ARFCOM fashion.
Link Posted: 4/3/2017 8:08:45 PM EDT
[#9]
I would never sell what I have.  All my equipmet was the best I could buy at the time, and is in like new condition.  For what little I would get for it, it would not make sense.  I don't think NV and thermal are an either/or proposition. They compliment each other and there is a place and need for both.  Thermal is better at detection, NV is better used when navigating and when a positive ID is needed.  The main reason I would not sell what I have is simple.  I don't have to-I can afford whatever I want.
Link Posted: 4/3/2017 8:24:58 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
unless you get GOOD thermal you are doing it right, locate with thermal and ID with NV.  The IR lasers are good for CQ but not sure of the usefulness in hunting.  Guys with more experience can speak better to the hunting value I am sure.
View Quote
You get some hard charging coyotes and you will love the ir laser 3 of my coyotes this year wished I didnt have an ir laser
Link Posted: 4/3/2017 9:54:25 PM EDT
[#11]
I was undecided as to the usefullness of the IR laser too.  Logic tells me that coyotes should be more willing to come in close at night than during the day.  The one place thermal would shine is if they hang up a way out.  Another plus to thermal is how quickly you should be able to re-acquire the target when switching from one device to another.  Lots of areas don't have much long range wide open hunting though and it sure is a rush to get them close.
Link Posted: 4/4/2017 1:49:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I would never sell what I have.  All my equipmet was the best I could buy at the time, and is in like new condition.  For what little I would get for it, it would not make sense.  I don't think NV and thermal are an either/or proposition. They compliment each other and there is a place and need for both.  Thermal is better at detection, NV is better used when navigating and when a positive ID is needed.  The main reason I would not sell what I have is simple.  I don't have to-I can afford whatever I want.
View Quote
I wasn't questioning your finances, but more implying that a product like a reap-ir might make some of your current gear redundant.  In a few years you find you have stuff in the safe you just don't use anymore.  Get a laser if you have the bucks they're not that expensive.   Then get a thermal scope and you may find like I did I no longer need a laser.
Link Posted: 4/5/2017 9:04:08 PM EDT
[#13]
The only reason I'm considering holding up on the thermal is the technology, prices and size/weight are changing so quickly, I think it may be wise to wait.  I know this sounds crazy, but I'm actually considering getting a CQBL 1 and a rheostatically controlled IR illuminator or a torch mark II with different wavelength drop in led pills.  If the CQBL 1 had a green viz laser and an nd filter, it would be perfect.  Getting tired of waiting for perfect.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 1:35:18 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The only reason I'm considering holding up on the thermal is the technology, prices and size/weight are changing so quickly, I think it may be wise to wait.  I know this sounds crazy, but I'm actually considering getting a CQBL 1 and a rheostatically controlled IR illuminator or a torch mark II with different wavelength drop in led pills.  If the CQBL 1 had a green viz laser and an nd filter, it would be perfect.  Getting tired of waiting for perfect.
View Quote
I am having trouble understanding what the crazy part of using a CQBL-1 ICW a Torch Pro. They are both excellent pieces of gear and complement each other well.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 6:47:58 AM EDT
[#15]
Time to get the new mawl laser. I don't have one, but they look like the best laser on the market, even beating out class 3 models.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 8:27:28 AM EDT
[#16]
The reason I thought some might think me crazy is, the combination units ATPIAL, DBAL's etc seem to be all the rage.  My use will be varmint hunting.  Not combat, self defense LE, covert missions.  I need to be able to shoot relatively small critters at 25-150 yds.  Too large an aiming dot and too much bloom at close ranges are my big problems, hence my interest in a unit I can buy or make a ND filter for and I absolutely was a vis laser to aid in sighting in during the day.  If I am going to give up the viz laser for daytime sighting, I will just get a green UNI IR for $150 an struggle sighting that in.  Without getting into a pissing match about what animals see, IR light vs. the IR source, I want an illuminator with swappable LED pills or a rheostatically controlled one.  The TNVC looks better built, but a rheostatically controlled T20 would be nice too, like this one: https://www.hightechredneckincorporated.com/High-Tech-Red-Neck-T-20-Infinity-IR-Device-p/nva3165.htm
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 8:28:34 AM EDT
[#17]
Does not look like the best choice for MY purpose (MAWL).
Link Posted: 4/7/2017 9:15:13 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I wasn't questioning your finances, but more implying that a product like a reap-ir might make some of your current gear redundant.  In a few years you find you have stuff in the safe you just don't use anymore.  Get a laser if you have the bucks they're not that expensive.   Then get a thermal scope and you may find like I did I no longer need a laser.
View Quote
I'm actually starting to see things your way.  I've been looking into ir lasers and ir illuminators a lot.  What I am finding is that a red viz laser is of little use for daytime use.  My big hangup was a desire to sight in during the day using a slaved viz laser, and finalize with limited shots at night, due to the oppressive laws where I live (illegal to be in possession of NV or thermal and a firearm at the same time).  If a slaved red viz laser/ir laser cannot be seen to sight in in daylight, why bother?  I do not foresee the need to laser ID the enemy in the heart of the country.  With thermal, you can use it during the day to sight in.  A gunshot at night where there is virtually no night hunting is sure get you a visit from LE. With thermal, you need no ir illuminator, no ir aiming laser, and can use it during the day, and you don't have to worry about bloom when shooting small targets at close ranges. The PVS 14 still has a role for driving/navigating and will work through glass (somewhat) where thermal won't and I still worry a bit about positive ID, but thermal may be my best route.  I see no point in putting $1,300-$$2,500  into lasers and illuminators, when thermal can do so much more.  The real ? now is when to pull the trigger on thermal.  Unlike NV which has plateaued at Gen III for the most part, thermal is advancing in features/quality and declining in price so quickly that I may have to wait until that market settles down.  Of course, I will keep my eyes out for a interim thermal unit if an available (not pre-ordered promise) of good quality re-salable thermal should come along.  Problem with pre-ordering a  thermal is just like buying a computer on layaway-by the time you receive it, something better has come along and what you have bought is worth little.
Link Posted: 4/7/2017 11:04:19 AM EDT
[#19]
What range are most of your yote shots taken?

I've never owned a Gen 3 NV scope, but have a Gen 2"+" Nemesis 4x.
I've had and sold the following after trial and error:
Gen 3 PVS 14
CQBL (with a no-longer available ND filter)
ATN Thor 320 2x
various IR lasers

I still have:
Gen 3 PVS 14 and helmet
Zeus 640 3x
Pulsar HD38A 2x scanner (336)
Armasight Nemesis 4x Gen 2+
Still have several IR lasers*  

I don't hunt yotes (can't legally shoot them here at night).  I do hunt pigs a lot at night.  Unless I'm going somewhere new or we've got a lot of distance to cover in the golf cart, the helmet doesn't usually even make it out of the safe, much less the truck.  Between the handheld scanner and the 3x 640 scope, I've always done better / been happier with thermal.  Usually shots are limited to 250 or less, and I know where I hunt very well and don't have to worry about dogs/ calves.  If non-NV owning buddies are going, they'll take the Nemesis (1st choice) and the helmet and IR rifle (always second choice).

*IR Lasers-  they don't actually get used much.  For pigs, at least the ones I've come across, they don't seem to mind red or green lasers much.  All IR lasers are zeroed close for head shots/ finishing touches.
Link Posted: 4/7/2017 3:43:40 PM EDT
[#20]
It's a couple posts up.  25-150 yds
No pigs here.  Coyotes and smaller.
Link Posted: 4/7/2017 9:28:54 PM EDT
[#21]
The ir laser is cool but I would get the highest resolution thermal scope you can afford. I use a LS-XR scanner which is a 640x512 microbolometer and rats and bunnies are easy to ID at 50 yards.

 A microbolometer that size behind a 4 or 6 power germanium optic would do what you want...good ID and fast acquisition. You already have a great scanner in the 64 and the pvs14
  lets you navigate. A nice thermal scope would be ideal in my opinion. My LS-XR was about the same price as a pvs-14 so I jumped on it. I note the big germanium optics add a ton to the cost
so a scope is still pricey.
    The laser is a must have too...but unless you find a used one cheap I would get it last, but that's me.
Link Posted: 4/7/2017 9:53:41 PM EDT
[#22]
Looking hard at the Reap IR.  Things are kind of up in the air with the IRD vs the Trijicon, and some of the other mfgrs too.  The only real stable player seems to be Pulsar.  Really wish the segment would level off and the rapid innovations and declining prices would stabilize.  In the nv arena it was easy.  I bought a PVS 14 in gen 3 and a D 740 gen 3 and that was it.  What's better?  You can talk about white phosphor but for the most part, it's pretty stable.
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