I'm in the market for a thermal unit of my own to complement my PVS-14 setup and have questions about the ATN Thor units.  After extensive time with my friend's IR Defense (now Trijicon) IR Hunter Mk II 35mm, that is what my goal has been.  Today while reading some articles elsewhere I saw a video posted of a coyote kill through a ATN Thor HD unit and was surprised at what I saw.  I'll preface my next statement with the disclaimer that it is nothing more than conjecture based upon things I've read over the years, but I really haven't ever personally considered ATN to be top-tier equipment.  I've read on this forum, at least in years gone by, that their NV equipment is (or was) very middle-of-the-road and to be quite frank I've never looked any further into their offerings.  As I said, nothing more than an assumption on my part.

Anyhow, after stumbling across that video I took a couple of minutes to look at ATN's website and must admit that some of the features of their thermal scopes look rather interesting.  Although I don't know how useable and reliable they are, it appears that at least on the surface they are more feature-rich than the Trijicon/IRD units.  So with all that said, what is the group's general consensus on these?  And, how high up on the Thor HD line would I need to be in order to have visual performance on par with the IR Hunter Mk II 35mm?  If these units are viewed as dependable, quality pieces AND I wouldn't have to buy so far up the Thor line that I'm within striking distance of the IR Hunter money-wise then I just may consider it.

Thanks for any input provided- this manufacturer is just outside of my realm of knowledge and experience and I figured you guys could shed some light on the subject.

Honestly the Thor HD line and the IR Hunter aren't even in the same ballpark quality wise.

Thanks for the input, guys.  I figured my gut and my tendency to operate via the "Buy Once Cry Once" motto was the case here as well, but it would be foolish to not at least ask about a product I knew nothing about.  We will keep our eye on the IR Hunter "prize".

If you're not buying today, the new FLIR offerings with the BOSON core look pretty awesome.

On the off chance you are able to read between the lines (Pulsar Trail's features are only being brought to market in response to the Thor-HD) and/or realize "Buy Once, Cry Once"  doesn't explain why someone shouldn't spend as much money as possible for EVERYTHING (that motto is the antithesis of what free markets are supposed to deliver), you could go to the ATN Facebook group, ask to join and do your own research.

ATN Smart HD Owners Group

Can you elaborate why? Both look solid and Both have good thermal capabilities what makes the IR hunter so much better especially for the price difference?

OP, you have to decide what features are really important to you. There seems to be a spectrum here of total mil-spec/bare-bones (FLIR/IR Defense) on one side and very feature laden/consumer oriented on the other (ATN). So far Pulsar seems to be in the middle. I considered the IR-Defense but the nosebleed price and bare bones approach is not winning be over. That is what many people are looking for, so not a knock on the product. Personally, I want something more in the middle. I want great thermal capabilities with consumer oriented features. I don't want to have to send my $7,000 thermal camera 3,000 miles across the country for a firmware update. (Apparently that's just me, though!)

As for the FLIR, all you'll find is industry reps quietly giggling to themselves about how awesome the upcoming Boson stuff is but no one will say word one about what that will actually be. Sounds like a Boson based Q14 that will be very small and light and as bare bones as everything else they sell. The fact that no one will say is a major turn off and, frankly, a red flag.

-Stooxie

There is a whole forum devoted to ATN's lineup.
If you are going to buy one I'd spend some time reading.



ATN Owners

Image quality (12 Micron BAE vs 17 or 25 micron foreign core)

Reliability

Company support

Better mounting system

Stronger housing

Rated up to 50 cal for recoil

Resale value

Those are just some off the top of my head

Boson is a game changer, won't be anything coming down the pike to outmatch it for a few years.

Stop.

I'm with you that FLIR needs to publish some info. 100% agreement. That said, they are making entire lines of BOSON Core thermals. From handheld/helmet/TWS to Clip Ons (both shown at SHOT) to Dedicated TWS of multiple lens, mag, and resolution with this new core.

I'm not saying an ATN Thor HD, Triji/IR DEFENSE, or Pulsar Trail isn't the better choice for you or OP, I AM saying that a lack of available data about features on FLIR BOSON Core Thermals (some without any official announcements yet) is NOT a red flag.

It never was a red flag, FLIR does not follow the marketing strategies of its competitors, never has.

I'm not playing favorites cause I own and have owned stuff from all of them.  That said I wouldn't have any qualms with anything FLIR says they're going to do.  Wouldn't consider it a red flag by any means.  They do have a good bit of info on their website and there were some videos of the new Q14 from shot show.

You sure? Not saying you're wrong, but when I bought my reap-ir I was told nothing more than 300blk.  

Hoping I'm wrong and you're right.

I'm not 100% on the reap but on the old IRD site they even had a picture of an IR Hunter on a Barrett.  I could be wrong and Trijicon could certainly update the info anytime.

I know the reap is ok to at least 308

Lots of people are hating them. Does anyone in the forum have first hand negative experience?

I have handled and was surprised how good the image was for the price. Never shot one though. Have had several customers who own them and i have always winced a little when they talked about it (being myself sceptical of price and brand). But the HD line i have actually handled didn't seem bad and I haven't had any complaints from local folks who bought them.

I have the 1.25x 384 core thorHD and my first production unit had a issue out of the box (sound recording did not work). ATN paid shipping both ways and had me a new unit in a few weeks off of their second production run. Much better scope and now has been beat around pretty good without issue. For the sub-$1700 I paid its well worth the money for this weekend warrior to whack pigs and yotes.

I am not a ATN fan boy and have seen ATN's shitty reputation/quality for many many years, but they got it right with the Thor line of thermal scopes.

I am completely happy with my unit, but I would probably opt for the 2x 384 unit in the future for a little more magnification. The 1.25x is great for close range and the FOV is great for scanning, but not so great for long range. If I were buying right now I would hold out for the FLIR Q14b for $1800 and see what the feedback on it looks like with the 320 core as it has a 10 year warranty on the core, but its only 1x magnification. - Side question: Why is FLIR not running a 384 core now like everyone else??

I've been using an ATN Thor 1.25x5 for 3 years now. Only issue I had with it was the screw on battery cap broke off on deer hunting trip back in November.  Didn't affect anything really other than made it more difficult to remove the battery holder.  I called ATN and all they were interested in was my mailing address to send me another one.  No questions asked.

I would love to have an REAP-IR, but cannot justify the price as the Thor does everything I need it to. Buy what you can afford.

Always have been impressed with IRD products. They are built solid and perform fantastic.

While at the ATN owners group pay particular attention to the problems upon problems. I thought it was a group for users to tout the products and share great videos. Seems to be more of a problem solving place to me. Problems are numerous !!  Don't take my word. Just go over and read for yourself.

The X sight seems to be a well talked about diamond in the rough !

The older I get the more I learn things are cheap for a good reason. My next thermal will be Flir Boson or a IRD product.

If the FLIR Boson is priced the same as the ATN products ( $ 1,800?) no doubt you won't be buying it because "things are cheap for a good reason"  

With added features comes greater user support - the most commonly asked question in the ATN Smart HD Owners group?

"Can somebody tell me the password for the wifi?"

Even though the password is shown right there in the wifi setup menu in the scope ... Pulsar and FLIR have lots of technical fun like that coming as soon as their new products start shipping in quantity.

No doubt these vendors will use the much lower margins to staff up so people WON'T  have to depend upon other helpful owners for answers any time of the night or day.

I like you Barliman ! I hope Satchal pays you well !!  

ETA :I see you did not dispute the first 3/4 of my post.

ATN should have gave me my money back 12 years ago. We would not have this problem today if they did. Well, based on their actions we probably still would.

TNVC has never paid me a dime. I just support quality dealers.   They have also never gave me a scope to evaluate that I get to keep for free after the evaluation. I know how the game is played. I don't play the game ! I pay for my gear. I am also TNVC worst customer. I buy a couple parts every two years. I buy used gear and build my own. Vic knows this.

Your monomania is showing ... and you've completely left "technical discussion" behind.

P.S. I never mentioned a single vendor nor have I made unsubstantiated claims about you.

Cool story !

You mentioned ATN though.

It's pretty awful that someone who stands up for a product has to suddenly be on the take. I don't know Barliman from a hole in the wall but I can believe that he has a product, is satisfied with it, and figures other people can have the same experience. I've had more returned, out of spec, stuff from Spike's than I've EVER had with DPMS yet I can tell you who everyone shits on.

If we can get this thread back on track and quit the saber rattling, I'll go back to what I said before. The OP has to understand what features are important to him. Just saying "Wait for X, it's going to be AWESOME" isn't worth shit. If someone can't wait, doesn't want to wait or doesn't want/need that particular set of capabilities then it wasn't good advice.

So, OP... can you help us prioritize what's important to you?

-Stooxie

I've denied it before and thus my reference to Dino's monomania.

In case anyone hasn't figured it out:

AR15.com exists for the benefit of the site sponsors who underwrite it's existence - anyone pushing FACTS related to products not sold by site sponsors will be freely attacked by folks like Dino.

I'm still here, just watching what's been transpiring as this thread has come off the rails.   To that point, I'll make one comment.  I've been on ARFCOM for a long time and read much more than I post, and I particularly keep tabs on this NV forum as I've had the gear for years and use it rather regularly while predator hunting. I'm a seeker of knowledge and experiences of others, and there's some really bright and well spoken people here.  I will say from time to time issues like this one here pop up that seem to expose some underlying gripes, suspicions and maybe even bad blood between members here based upon inferred or assumed allegiances, biases, motives, etc.  I'll just say that there's a lot of great discussion on this sub-forum and it would be a shame if that goes by the wayside in favor of arguing.  I appreciate all your input.  

Back on track here- even though I truly don't have any knowledge of the Thor product I knew when I posted this thread that it probably wasn't for me.   My tendency, no matter what the subject, is to go for tried-and-true, rugged and dependable higher quality gear of a known quantity.  In other words, I'm sure I'll end up with an IRD unit.

The ATN scope has one feature that counts that the IRD does not.  On-board recording.  It is awesome.

ATN also has color modes, wifi, a blue tooth range finder, a wireless remote, an app for your phone, ballistics calc, and some other stuff that you mostly likely will almost never ever use.  Kind cool though.

The IRD has a better screen that is easier on the eye.  I preferred the IRD's user interface and control setup.  I think the actual thermal image enhancements are better on the IRD, or were last time I checked.

I have gone after ATN for well over 10 years. I have a entire file based on their shananigans. The Thor is one of the better products. Does not excuse the past cluster fucks. Suck on the ATN tit if you must. I will never ever buy a single ATN product. I don't support liars or Russians.

I also support many dealers who are NOT site sponsors. I like Ed Wilcox , Night Vision Depot, and a few others. I have been well documented sending folks to all of them. I have disdain for ATN for very good reason. I see past the very good marketing.

Dang!  I feel great about my Mk III all of the sudden

Just thinking out loud. I've never had an issue with any product I've mentioned as far as that goes. Elitism, sure. But not what you speak of. Again, just my experience.

I cannot say the same for "the other site". Bunch of arrogant shills.

I just spent 12500. On thermals. 2 scopes and a spotter. I did a ton of research over the past year before buying. It really does not matter which one you buy they all pretty much have their faults.

ATNs HD scopes are kinda new but are setting the tread for everyone one else to follow as far as what to have now. Have they got all the kinks worked out no. But they will and it will be a fantastic scope.

IRD great scopes and they are what they are. My problem with them is that there are flaws in the operation of the MK2 and the others and instead of offering fixes for these scopes. Yes people have complained and no it's not a life altering problem either. But but it still exist. But instead of offering a fix. IRD  comes out with new scopes with the problems fixed and offers to up grade the older scopes to the new configuration and fix known issues at a hefty price. That was a turn off to me. That and Trijicon bought them and immediately went up 500.00. I also think the marketing of American made is a little over board. It should be American assembled. Because I bet you alot of the parts in IRD are still made over seas.

Armasight is a great scope that offers a lot of options like ATN. Service is suppose to be good. But they sold out to FLIR which courts the military and LE community. So we will see how they treat the civilian market as far as customer svc. That said, they offer a great line up of quality scopes at some good prices.

PULSAR I've really heard nothing but good things about from everyone that's used there product. Everyone says for the money you can't beat these scopes. With PIP and the reticles offered. Plus with the new Trail that's coming out with alot of the same featuress as ATN HD scopes at some great prices. Plus they have some good monoculars also. I might be buying a Trail when released I really like the battery it uses. My only turn off is the size of the XD scopes they are pretty big. They Trail though fix the size issue. Again that battery in the trail with it's battery life is a big plus.

So you see it just depends on what you really want to invest in one. Are you going to use it a whole lot or buying it as an investment to keep for you tactical gear.  To justify spending alot of money or are to going to use it occasionally to hunt with or to play with. If you were to spend say 5k on it and 6 months down the road realize you need the money back then sell it. You should have just bought a 1900 to 3k unit then. Determine your needs and budget what you want from your research and buy it.

Because everyone of us will have our favorite one that we bought. Based on our individual research and needs.
I did consider the ATN HD, IRD, Pulsar and Armasight  I beat my head against the wall for months trying to decide. But I made my choice and I'm not looking back. I bought 2 scopes and a monocular I wanted the most bang for my buck.  Good luck in your decision it's rough trying to decide. By the time I was ready to buy I believe I was more confused than when I started after reading all the advice and reviews. Lol

I am looking at the FLIR Boson demos and while it is a damn small package with great adaptability, the image samples are not wowing me.  Is the actual image quality on par with IRD resolution?

Beats me you'd think it's some big top secret project they they are releasing information about it