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Posted: 9/27/2016 6:30:53 PM EDT
Title pretty much says it all. I recognize the differences or at least some of them- but is there any reason to get a factory N.E. Over say an Omni or itt Tnvc build? Thanks
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Posted: 9/27/2016 6:59:37 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: Title pretty much says it all. I recognize the differences or at least some of them- but is there any reason to get a factory N.E. Over say an Omni or itt Tnvc build? Thanks The people to ask would be TNVC themselves, as the sell both - I'm sure they can tell you the differences. The main difference that I'm aware of is the warranty - TNVC would warranty their own product, while NE would have a factory warranty. A hand-build is usually better than a factory build, but TNVC usually check their NE's anyway, so it's not as much of a difference. I guess the final point then is specs - If you need a certain spec, or want to try something like WP, then a hand build is the way to go. Also, a hand build can come in camo or tan, rather than black. Both are good choices - it just comes down to which nuances suit you - but nothing lost to call TNVC on the phone and ask the question, since I make be incorrect in my assumptions also. They are good people to talk to - David. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 8:44:11 PM EDT
[#2]
A factory build could have a better resale value should that ever be a concern.
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:24:14 PM EDT
[#3]
I have one of each and there is no quality difference between the two. In addition to those previously replies, there is also a cost premium with a NE. You have more color options with a TNVC unit, and you can put the cost saving toward that or some other NV accessories.
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:55:23 PM EDT
[#4]
A Night enforcer will have a ITT tube while the TNVC house build uses L3 tubes. I simply think L3 is building the better tube right now. I would get the TNVC build over the enforcer. Better min specs and less blemishes.
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:27:30 PM EDT
[#5]
TNVC would say the L3 tubes they get today are higher in quality; something may have happened to the Pinnacle line. In 2012, yes, the ITT was very viable. Go the L3 tube today.
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Posted: 9/27/2016 11:12:57 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A Night enforcer will have a ITT tube while the TNVC house build uses L3 tubes. I simply think L3 is building the better tube right now. I would get the TNVC build over the enforcer. Better min specs and less blemishes. They build with both ITT tubes or L3 tubes. It's up to the customer to pick which manufacturer for a tube they want. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 11:13:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
TNVC would say the L3 tubes they get today are higher in quality; something may have happened to the Pinnacle line. In 2012, yes, the ITT was very viable. Go the L3 tube today. When you layoff all your engineers bad things happen. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 11:16:16 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They build with both ITT tubes or L3 tubes. It's up to the customer to pick which manufacturer for a tube they want. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A Night enforcer will have a ITT tube while the TNVC house build uses L3 tubes. I simply think L3 is building the better tube right now. I would get the TNVC build over the enforcer. Better min specs and less blemishes. They build with both ITT tubes or L3 tubes. It's up to the customer to pick which manufacturer for a tube they want. I well know what they build. L3 tubes is their # 1 seller. That is not an accident. I was a HUGE ITT man. L3 has been kicking ITT in the ass for a few years now. It may not be said in public. I can assure you behind the scenes it is common talk. Many night vision dealers have a responsibility to all their vendors. L3 is # 1 from what I see and hear |
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Posted: 9/28/2016 2:54:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Thanks Guys for the replies and information. Always learn a ton from yall. I am going with L3 Omni.
 
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Posted: 9/28/2016 3:23:35 PM EDT
[#10]
What sort of warranty does Eotech (L3) offer on their units?
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Posted: 9/28/2016 5:01:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What sort of warranty does Eotech (L3) offer on their units? No idea on their PVS-14's from the factory, but TNVC's are 5 year tube and assembly... Can one buy a factory L3 pvs14??? |
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Posted: 9/28/2016 5:05:10 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No idea on their PVS-14's from the factory, but TNVC's are 5 year tube and assembly... Can one buy a factory L3 pvs14??? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What sort of warranty does Eotech (L3) offer on their units? No idea on their PVS-14's from the factory, but TNVC's are 5 year tube and assembly... Can one buy a factory L3 pvs14??? They build milspec units for the military. They don't have a line like the night enforcer I am aware of (could be wrong). |
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Posted: 9/28/2016 5:25:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Thought I would interject. Yes we can order a full up factory L3 PVS-14 but at 4K plus for thin filmed green (on a good day with LONG lead times with a 2 year warranty) we think using their Omni 8 tubes and building around their filmed and unfilmed tubes with our 5 year tube/system warranty we offer is a bit more cost effective for the end user. We have many happy customers over the last few years since we put this program in place.
Vic |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 5:22:35 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I well know what they build. L3 tubes is their # 1 seller. That is not an accident. I was a HUGE ITT man. L3 has been kicking ITT in the ass for a few years now. It may not be said in public. I can assure you behind the scenes it is common talk. Many night vision dealers have a responsibility to all their vendors. L3 is # 1 from what I see and hear Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: A Night enforcer will have a ITT tube while the TNVC house build uses L3 tubes. I simply think L3 is building the better tube right now. I would get the TNVC build over the enforcer. Better min specs and less blemishes. They build with both ITT tubes or L3 tubes. It's up to the customer to pick which manufacturer for a tube they want. I well know what they build. L3 tubes is their # 1 seller. That is not an accident. I was a HUGE ITT man. L3 has been kicking ITT in the ass for a few years now. It may not be said in public. I can assure you behind the scenes it is common talk. Many night vision dealers have a responsibility to all their vendors. L3 is # 1 from what I see and hear Curse my dyslexic brain... I thought you said something else there... I was about to ask if you had any pics of the L3 saleswoman before I re-read what you wrote. Anyway, ITT went in a different direction. Harris saw night vision as a path to sell more radios ( eg, SENVG ) - so they didn't see the value ITT had in the Night Vision business and destroyed their brand. They still sell stuff - but it's a shadow of what it used to be. L3 has now taken their spot and there is no one below them of note. Regards David |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 7:02:07 AM EDT
[#15]
Feel free to call me at 909-796-7000 ect 303
I will be happy to talk tubes with you. -Sam |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 8:12:45 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Curse my dyslexic brain... I thought you said something else there... I was about to ask if you had any pics of the L3 saleswoman before I re-read what you wrote. Anyway, ITT went in a different direction. Harris saw night vision as a path to sell more radios ( eg, SENVG ) - so they didn't see the value ITT had in the Night Vision business and destroyed their brand. They still sell stuff - but it's a shadow of what it used to be. L3 has now taken their spot and there is no one below them of note. Regards David Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A Night enforcer will have a ITT tube while the TNVC house build uses L3 tubes. I simply think L3 is building the better tube right now. I would get the TNVC build over the enforcer. Better min specs and less blemishes. They build with both ITT tubes or L3 tubes. It's up to the customer to pick which manufacturer for a tube they want. I well know what they build. L3 tubes is their # 1 seller. That is not an accident. I was a HUGE ITT man. L3 has been kicking ITT in the ass for a few years now. It may not be said in public. I can assure you behind the scenes it is common talk. Many night vision dealers have a responsibility to all their vendors. L3 is # 1 from what I see and hear Curse my dyslexic brain... I thought you said something else there... I was about to ask if you had any pics of the L3 saleswoman before I re-read what you wrote. Anyway, ITT went in a different direction. Harris saw night vision as a path to sell more radios ( eg, SENVG ) - so they didn't see the value ITT had in the Night Vision business and destroyed their brand. They still sell stuff - but it's a shadow of what it used to be. L3 has now taken their spot and there is no one below them of note. Regards David Interesting commentary. I see hundreds of Harris data sheets. If anything in the last couple years quality has gone up considerably. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 11:30:19 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Curse my dyslexic brain... I thought you said something else there... I was about to ask if you had any pics of the L3 saleswoman before I re-read what you wrote. Anyway, ITT went in a different direction. Harris saw night vision as a path to sell more radios ( eg, SENVG ) - so they didn't see the value ITT had in the Night Vision business and destroyed their brand. They still sell stuff - but it's a shadow of what it used to be. L3 has now taken their spot and there is no one below them of note. Regards David Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A Night enforcer will have a ITT tube while the TNVC house build uses L3 tubes. I simply think L3 is building the better tube right now. I would get the TNVC build over the enforcer. Better min specs and less blemishes. They build with both ITT tubes or L3 tubes. It's up to the customer to pick which manufacturer for a tube they want. I well know what they build. L3 tubes is their # 1 seller. That is not an accident. I was a HUGE ITT man. L3 has been kicking ITT in the ass for a few years now. It may not be said in public. I can assure you behind the scenes it is common talk. Many night vision dealers have a responsibility to all their vendors. L3 is # 1 from what I see and hear Curse my dyslexic brain... I thought you said something else there... I was about to ask if you had any pics of the L3 saleswoman before I re-read what you wrote. Anyway, ITT went in a different direction. Harris saw night vision as a path to sell more radios ( eg, SENVG ) - so they didn't see the value ITT had in the Night Vision business and destroyed their brand. They still sell stuff - but it's a shadow of what it used to be. L3 has now taken their spot and there is no one below them of note. Regards David Agreed and I feel there is more to the story...L3 used to hugely lag behind ITT, then Excelis, now Harris but it's been L3 who has made the LARGEST improvements over the last 4 years. Not even close here... L3 specs on average meets and exceeds Harris all across the board. We have well over a thousand data sheets we've looked through over the years. It is truly L3 who has made the largest single improvement to the their intensifier tube line. That's not even talking about their filmless line they have broke the code on! I mean the last batch of tubes had a 35+ SNR....I've never seen these average specs like this before, ever in large batches and we're getting an average 31 SNR regularly on ALL the filmless line. It doesn't get any better than this. Their Mil line of CNVD/LR's have had specs higher than I've ever seen before and seeing is believing looking through one of these units! 
It's funny, but when we started seeing the L3 quality strides was after ITT back at that time got hammered with that huge ITAR VIOLATION FINE . Coincidence some say? The most damaging part which sunk ITT at the time was this, DOJ suspended the $50 million fine for five years, during which ITT must invest and develop night vision technology for the U.S. military and the U.S. government maintains "Government Purchase Rights" to all technology developed -- meaning the government can share any of the ITT technology with competing defense contractors for future contracts, the DOJ document states. The money spent on the technology must also be approved by the U.S. Army Night Vision & Electronic Sensors Lab in at Fort Belvoir, Va. Any of the $50 million unspent after five years must be paid to the U.S. government. ....And we all know who won the last Omni (8) contract...
Anyhoot to others, our very popular NV White Paper we published that has a sticky above is about to get updated showing the newest L3 tubes that are not the old darker sorta fuzzy units seen from years ago, but the true representation of what they look like nowadays. What a difference a few years make and L3 has made the largest improvements to date, there is no discounting that. |
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Posted: 9/29/2016 12:20:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Whatever happened with Eotech/L3's deal re: lying about their products on the gubmint contracts and then the buy back deal? I couldn't get any of their folks at Shot to talk about it this year. Did they get a fine or anything?
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Posted: 9/29/2016 2:17:15 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whatever happened with Eotech/L3's deal re: lying about their products on the gubmint contracts and then the buy back deal? I couldn't get any of their folks at Shot to talk about it this year. Did they get a fine or anything? I think I read they got fined 28 million. Not sure of the exact figure but it is close. That is on top of all the warranty claims. I am a Aimpoint guy so never really affected me but that is what I read. I also read all RDS are affected by temperature shift to some degree or another. Not sure how much faith I put in that as it was released by Eotech on the paper I read. My Aimpoint hits what I point it at so I have no issues.
I liked Eotechs but my eyes saw a bunch of red dots. Not real sure why but my Aimpoint does not do that. |
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Posted: 9/30/2016 12:11:52 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think I read they got fined 28 million. Not sure of the exact figure but it is close. That is on top of all the warranty claims. I am a Aimpoint guy so never really affected me but that is what I read. I also read all RDS are affected by temperature shift to some degree or another. Not sure how much faith I put in that as it was released by Eotech on the paper I read. My Aimpoint hits what I point it at so I have no issues.
I liked Eotechs but my eyes saw a bunch of red dots. Not real sure why but my Aimpoint does not do that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Whatever happened with Eotech/L3's deal re: lying about their products on the gubmint contracts and then the buy back deal? I couldn't get any of their folks at Shot to talk about it this year. Did they get a fine or anything? I think I read they got fined 28 million. Not sure of the exact figure but it is close. That is on top of all the warranty claims. I am a Aimpoint guy so never really affected me but that is what I read. I also read all RDS are affected by temperature shift to some degree or another. Not sure how much faith I put in that as it was released by Eotech on the paper I read. My Aimpoint hits what I point it at so I have no issues.
I liked Eotechs but my eyes saw a bunch of red dots. Not real sure why but my Aimpoint does not do that. I think it's the difference between a laser and a LED. I never liked the laser reticle in the Eotech, it's made up of a bunch of tiny red dots and always looked blurry to me. I really like the solid red LED dot in the Aimpoint, and being able to leave it on for more than 5 years before the battery goes dead is kinda nice too. |
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Posted: 10/7/2016 11:53:55 PM EDT
[#21]
TNVC guys,
Can you post a link to the white paper showing newest l3 images? Everything I've seen in the past shows l3 tubes producing darker images than high spec pinnacle tubes. Thanks much, -Freq |
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Posted: 10/8/2016 3:09:03 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
TNVC guys, Can you post a link to the white paper showing newest l3 images? Everything I've seen in the past shows l3 tubes producing darker images than high spec pinnacle tubes. Thanks much, -Freq Our newest white paper was ABOUT to get published showing the newest L3 tubes...We had a few more WPT to show this week and then that Hurricane thing in Florida had our staff out there and their familes running for cover. 
We'll get it done soon enough. Thank you. Vic |
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