Speaking on first time experiences and purchases; what are some things you learned when you first received and used your PVS14's. Field of view expectations, image quality, actual ability versus the initial expectation. What were the things if any that you would like to have known or understood prior to purchase?

I started out with a D300 and I was amazed at what gen 2 could do. By the time I got to Gen 3 I was blown away and hooked as you can tell


ETA: Only thing I wish I had done sooner was pick up a thermal versus more Gen3 Nods. I just got my Night optics TM-X a couple of days ago and i must say thermal goes hand in hand with a pvs-14.

Good gen 3 monocular and a handheld thermal at 320x minimum is a great combo.

PVS 14.......was what I wanted but wasn't my first. I balked at the price tag then since I didn't fully comprehend what they were capable of. Research lead me to knowing I wanted gen 3 right from the gate. I searched and searched till I found a Envis I could afford. Then I realized I didn't want to weapon mount it and couldn't head mount it easily. BANG! Arfcom had a thread on a Envis to Micro transplant that got my heart all aflutter. $450 later I had what I wanted.....or so I thought. It was head mountable, and a clean tube.....but I read a gated power supply, and gain were the bees knees......

So I sold it (not knowing what I know now) and bought a PVS14, then another. Then I tried looking through them both as hand held binos. I was in BLISS! Which was so short lived.....I didn't have a spec sheet and you GOTTA have a damn spec sheet! So I sold one and bought a PREMIUM BRAND PVS14!!!! I was blown the fuck away! Really....my tube has amazing specs! Yes, I still own that one, then I sold the lesser of the two...the non premium brand without a "spec sheet", to fund BINOS! I bought my binos come hell or high water.....and DAMN! This is where its at! Well.....till I discovered THERMAL!

Case and point. Thermal is ongoing " research" for me. I see the vast potential of it for detection, but always revert back to my first love of Image intensified tech. What I've learned about that....hmmm...my duals (both sets of them) use the same or very similar tube that was in my very first home brew. A Omni IV MX10160. No spots, and exceptional tubes overall. Yes, I have held on to my high spec PVS14 and will continue to do so because it is a spectacular unit that I still use. That's for one eye though........and the "rules" change a bit depending on what you have. Monoculars is where manual gain really shines (and the only time I really need it). With two eyes using supposedly inferior tubes, I can't tell a damn bit of difference in specs as long as tubes are similar. So I basically started off exactly where I started, only with a different application. I've come a long way since then with the help of some awesome members here, thanks fellas.

Good knowledge across the board if more chime even better and maybe a tack

If you ever think you might in the future need binoculars, just buy them first. You'll start off with one 14 then it turns into 2 which turns into a set of binoculars, but you keep the 14's since your friends don't have night vision and you won't have anybody to play with otherwise.

This.

I realized this early on. But then I just found better friends



 

I'm taking notes here. I'm sick of sharing!

If it's between having two sets of NV for you and a friend and you having one NV for you and a thermal for you, then take the latter.


But I am real selfish like that

Guh i know. My friends love using my gear but never want to buy their own.

Or better yet, buy MOD-3s from the start.

Three devices in one, your neck, your wallet, and quite possibly, even your eyes will thank you in the long-run.  

~Augee

And how much is that? I'm tempted by nightvision2go's $2300 PVS-14. I don't know what to do now!

$6,500; so it's not an insignificant outlay, especially all at once (I had two PVS-14s converted, rather than buying new), but in the long run, if you can afford it, you'll come out on top, especially considering the prices of other comparable BNVD systems new, neverminding the added cost of having to have separate monoculars.  

~Augee

It might be worth your while to see what nightgoggles wants to build up a Gen 2 MOD-3. Those Photonis tubes are pretty impressive and durable as hell.

Either that, or go all-in and pony up to buy an Autogated unit. ;-)

Oh, and it wouldn't hurt to get a quote from Nightvision2go on the MOD-3, too because he also builds them, since you're already looking at his PVS-14.

I got into my first set of Mod 3's for $3700

Used market is how I buy practically everything.  

Still a great score though.  

AB needs to get on some more upgrades like a ball-detent mount and fusion and pano pods.  

~Augee

This guy is right though, I had a couple "guest monocs" for a while then decided that I'd rather have a REALLY nice thermal sight in addition to my PVS-14.  It works great as a combo for myself and when need be I can stick the 14 on my brother's rifle, thermal on mine, and we each get a 1 AA headlamp for nav.  On an unrelated note, this is the greatest headlamp I've ever used.  

As for my do-over, the only thing I can think of is regarding helmets.  I wish very much the Crye NightCap was around when I got into NV ~10 years ago, because now I have a couple NV helmets that I've had to re-purpose for bicycle use.  I love the Crye NightCap and see no point in ever owning any other headgear at this point.

Hmm says the $2300 PVS-14 from Nightvision2go are autogated.

My plan is to end up with nightvision binos. Was going to get one $2300 PVS-14 next month and then another one around Christmas time and bridge them with a Wilcox mount or something. Would it be cheaper and lighter to just save up long term until I can buy a bino setup outright?

Only the tubes were used and they're pretty damn nice too, everything else is new.

Unless you buy on the used market, MOD-3s likely won't be cheaper in an "absolute" sense, in and that you can buy 2 ea. PVS-14 @ $2,300 + $1,000 for the Wilcox bridge, and it is still less than the cost of a set of MOD-3s.  

When I and others say that it's "cheaper" to just buy the binoculars in the first place is the fact that many, many people who use dual PVS-14s eventually end up getting bitten by the BNVD bug, and cannot rest until they've eventually bought a set of dedicated BNVDs - at which point they have to either sacrifice the ability to have one or more separate monoculars - or, they end up keeping one or more PVS-14s, and end up spending even more money to have a separate BNVD setup, and monoculars - remember, you only have two eyes.  

When you look at it that way, it's "cheaper" to just go ahead and buy the MOD-3s from the get go if you can afford them, and have both a dedicated BNVD setup, or the ability to split into two monoculars, whether you want to bring a friend, or want to have on monocular weapon mounted, and one head/hand-held, or just in one situation or another just want to have a monocular rather than a binocular.  

As for lighter... brother...

PVS-14s weigh ~12 ounces per, conservatively.  The Wilcox bridge is listed by the MFR at 8.72 ounces.  This comes out to 32.72 ounces hanging off the front of your face.

To compare - the "heavy" AN/PVS-15 is said to weigh about 22.9 ounces, while the "lighweight" AN/AVS-9 is said to weigh in at around 19.4 ounces, and the "monstrous" GPNVG-18 is said to clock in at a whopping 27 ounces.  The AB Night Vision MOD-3s weigh a middling 21.7 ounces or so.

Now - look again at the weight estimate for dual PVS-14s and a bridge.  Let that sink in...






With a weight, in excess of a $40-$60,000 set of panoramic NVGs, you get... a non-collimated BNVD that may or may not give you splitting headaches after fifteen minutes from the eye strain, to say nothing of what hanging a two pound mass hanging cantilevered off the front of your face is going to do.  

...of course, none of this is any guarantee that you won't later decide that you're sick of sharing your binos so you need another set... and a CNVD... and a thermal...

~Augee

I started off playing with the PVS 7B in the Marines. Then I was issued the 14s in the fleet. What a difference!
I'll be just fine with 14s. Haven't played with 15s, but I'd probably like to keep one eye natural


 

Contemplating on buying a Milspec Ultra PVS 14 in the near future

Oh wow... didn't realize the weight difference was that drastic. Man... this really puts a hold on my plans now. Even ordered an ATPIAL-C in preparation for a PVS14 next month. Realistically, how much should one expect to pay for a Mod-3?

Email the vendor. He can sell you half the MOD-3, because I've bought half the parts before. I built up just one monocular for a spare tube I had. It might cost a little more in the long run building it like this, though.

You could build it in phases like this:
Mod-3 monocular 1 now
Mod-3 monocular 2 with nvdepot  $150 bnvd bridge for christmas
Mod-3 bridge at a later date.

I'm not sure what just the mod-3 bridge runs, so it might be only a little more expensive than the nvdepot bridge.

OP, if you haven't used both monoculars and binoculars, you probably want to try them before plopping down a chunk of money.  A few of us in the minority actually prefer monoculars, and cost is not a factor for me.

My first device 9 years ago was an OMNI IV PVS-14.  I expected Gen3 to be good, but it was actually even better than my high expectations.  I still use that device to this day, and have added a couple I^2 riflescopes, a thermal monocular, and another PVS-14, so no do-overs in that regard.

Over the years I have managed to accumulate six helmets, plus one for my wife, plus a NightCap.  This was not so much an exercise in "do-over" per se, but rather making advantage of evolving technology.  The only one that I have never used much is the PT Alpha.  On paper it seemed like it would be an improvement over my skateboard rig at the time, but it simply didn't fit my head well, and fit is everything.

I have tried most every common helmet mount available except the new Norotos "Hyper" series.  I don't plan to buy any of those because I don't need / want breakaway.  The only one that I have traded away is the Wilcox G24.  Mine was one of the earlier units that had the stupid design with the raise/lower push button right next to the release button.  Wilcox has since changed their design to fix that problem.  The INVG with a dovetail-to-bayonet adapter is my go to on helmets, and the AKA2 on the NightCap.

I run plain old USGI J-arms, that many folks don't seem to like.  Maybe one of these days someone will come out with a dovetail type that works for me.  The Wilcox I-arm doesn't provide little enough ER for my liking, I broke a Wilcox J-arm and it has that silly push button shutoff pigtail that is not functional with most mounts and drives up the already high price, and the Norotos dual dovetail puts the controls in an awkward location for me.

Before the availability of Class I IR lasers, I toyed with weapon mounting a PVS-14, including a PRI M69 mount and a monoloc.  My solution to their shortcomings was a D-740 that has been simply awesome for my uses over the past 7 years.

Speaking of IR lasers, I have a couple, but don't really use them much.  A friend has all of the latest and greatest, and we have been planning a comparison test session, but busy lives have kept us from getting together so far.  I do keep a CT on my Buckmark though.

One NV accessory that I consider absolutely essential is IR beacons.  I mostly use Guardians because they are compact, lightweight, inexpensive, and not blindingly bright.  I also like the VIP, but it mainly stays on my bicycle helmet because the bright green definitely gets the attention of drivers.

I have a handful of high end IR illuminators, but the only ones that I really use much are the M1-IR on my helmets.  With the high spec D-740 on my carbine, I don't find the need for active IR.

Hope this helps.

Did the first - but still have not gone out with a "friend" (ok, one of my kids).  Got the thermal and was amazed.  NV is better for moving around - but 640 thermal sees animals that are invisible (totally blend in with the background) with nv.  I will eventually use both NV, just have been too busy.  






Only real advice so far is current consumer grade digital NV is is very far behind gen 3 (that scope was probably my largest inefficient use of money).  I took the digital out and I was happy, but recognized it was a bit limited, so got the PVS-14 and was amazed, then got the thermal and was amazed a second time.  So I guess the real advice, see if you can try some thermal out (and nv) before you spend money.  At least know what the options are like.



Just got a NV compatible AimPoint - so will see if it replaces my ir lasers (but it is nice in theory to have a single aiming device day or night).  Damn, thanks for the thread though.  Next weekend I really need to see if the Aimpoint and the PVS-14 will work with my chopped Marlin and my new Ruger, and eventually my Ranch Hand - all have limited rail room.
 

Alright, you guys are convincing me to sell off a few nongun-related items to get the cash for a Mod3 right off the bat. Going to try and find out who has the best deal for these. Sounds like the Mod3 just came out within the last year and doesn't have any downsides?

Consider the adjustable gain model. Or at least I would.



 

FWIW, I never use the manual gain on mine. I also wouldn't spend the extra $ for the ANVIS version. For the cost savings, I'd either get MX10160C tubes (autogated) or Gen 2+ Photonis tubes in it, if I had to get "new" tubes. If used, I'd get whatever is cheapest from a reputable source. There have been a few sets of nearly new MOD-3's that went on the EE, so that might also be an option to save a few bucks.

Also, the MOD-3 is brand new, so we're also not sure how these will perform long term. I imagine they'll be fine, but like with anything brand new, you just never know.

Augee definitely speaks highly of his Mod3, and I love mine. It came out end of last year beginning of this year I think? I was first reading about it in January or February if memory serves, but they were available almost right after I head of them but you had to inquire a little. I picked up my first set shortly after, and just picked up another off the EE I liked it so much.

As far as down sides.....none I can think of. If you are going to get a set I'd also recommend buying the manual gain housing even if you don't use tubes that have the feature. Its a little more money but allows you to upgrade the tubes later, and gives you more tube options. When I got my first set the manual gain model was just a rumor and unreleased, but that's what I'd have done if I could. I don't need gain with binos really even if it is nice, but if I split it up to use as a mono, gain is sorly missed.

ETA:


Very valid point. They don't have the track record like the PVS-15 and the Sentenal, so we aren't sure how much abuse they can take. However if they follow suit with other AB products they should be pretty reliable.

Quick noob question... how do you tell if it has manual gain? And are the other ones automatic?

That depends if you're talking about the tube, or the housing. MX11769 tubes have a pigtail that controls gain, which is absent on a MX10160. The housing will have a little knobe, and in the case of the Mod 3, both pods will have one. Both the housing, and the appropriate tube need to be used for it to work.

By automatic, I assume you mean ABC or Automatic Brightness Control? I believe almost all gen 3 tubes have ABC, but it doesn't dial down the brightness like gain does if that's what you're asking.

I think I understand now, I'm still new to NVGs and trying to learn all the differences and terminology still.
From what I gather, the MX11769 tubes are the newer ones compared to the MX10160 and the difference between the two is manual gain control?

What confuses me the most is what's the difference between Omni IV, VII, and VIII?

Up at the top of this forum there are stickied threads. One of those gives the differences between the Omni contracts specs.

JPK

Stick around here for a little and you'll get it. There's a lot to know so absorb what you can and ask questions. The guys who hang out here are some of the best around and most will take the time to help if they can. I've been playing with NV for 3 years or maybe a little longer, and still have questions and know just enough to get into trouble.

For the first part, I believe you are correct in a way. MX10160 tubes have been around longer then the MX11769, but both are still being made today. MX10160 tubes can be gated or non, but lack the gain control pigtail. MX11769 tubes can also be gated or non but are typically gated if its a newer tube and have the pigtail for gain.

Omni "X" refers to what contract a tube was built under. It can be useful for determining approximate performance of a tube if there isn't a spec sheet. It will give you the bare minimum specs for what that tube will have, but its not a spec sheet so isnt exact. Also you'd be hard pressed to tell a Omni V from a Omni VI when looking at both at the same time. Tubes are all unique and you could possibly have tubes made from the Omni VI contract that will outperform the average Omni VII contract tube since the designation "Omni" only refers to minimum specs, and not maximum. Look at the tacked Omni classification thread if you want to delve deeper. If you look at the tube ID thread tacked up top you can also see the difference between a MX10160, and a MX11769.

FWIW, when I had my MOD-3s built, I elected to go with MX-11769 with the manual gain pigtails removed because the manual gain MOD-3s were "forthcoming," and it would be a relatively easy and low-cost upgrade once they became available.  

The availability of manual gain housings has come and gone without my feeling any compulsion or desire whatsoever to have them switched back to manual gain, and I'm currently [very slowly] collecting parts to put together a set of ANVIS (sick of sharing binos ), which will also be sans manual gain.

At this point, the only reason I really see those tubes going back to manual gain versions would be if I pulled one to have it built into a CNVD, and an MX-10160 would likely go back in.  

Between the ABC/autogating and Butler Creek flip caps, I find that the brightness attenuation/adjustment capabilities are well within my needs, moreover, with the MOD-3s specifically, though this applies to the Sentinels as well, the only option is individual manual gain adjustments for each tube--ironically, the configuration that I would prefer to have - single gain controls for both tubes - is only available on the BNVD in the SG model, the configuration that would most benefit from individual manual gain controls, because the individual monoculars can be swiveled out of the way, so it would be beneficial to turn one all the way down when flipped out of the way (the BNVD is offered in the BNVD-G version, which does have independent manual gain controls).  

Again, FWIW - not that it's a case of "that's what the military does, so that's what you should do," but while the "rank and file" AN/PVS-14s do have manual gain controls, all of the "higher end" multi-tube NODs are non-adjustable gain as well, including the GPNVG-18s.  

As for the MOD-3s long-term durability - as others have mentioned, they certainly have not been around as long as other BNV systems, making them inherently an unknown quantity in that respect, plus, they have introduced (at least to the commercial market), a new attachment method for the "optical pods" to make them modular devices.  It's really impossible to say "for sure" how well they will last long-term.  

That being said - AB Night Vision is not a "fly by night" or new company in the NVD world and have been manufacturing and building NVDs for quite some time now, and have been highly regarded, with few, if any issues with durability ever coming up.  

As far as personal experience goes, I've been using mine since early January when they became available, and while I have not been "torture testing" them, I have not been treating them "nicely," to include tossing them in pouches and packs while riding in HMMWVs all day before using them, and using them (or at least wearing them ) in rain and thunderstorms, and they've held up well so far - I did have some rust start to form in a couple of the screws, but that's my own fault for not wiping the things down after using them in the rain.  

Again, though - it bears repeating - these are new devices to the market, and are not a re-packaging of long-used technology in a slightly different form, but a new, relatively untested technology, so you must, to some extent, take a risk based on your confidence in the manufacturer and the vendor you ultimately get them from if you decide to pick up a set.  

~Augee

Thanks for the detailed replies. Reason I was concerned about the MOD-3's durability was its 2 year warranty compared to the 3-10 years from the PVS-14s.

I would just like to buy once and cry once in the sense that I wouldn't feel the need to replace them within the next 5-10 years.

Thermal like the IR Patrol M300W also seem to be really useful and fun, but that'd have to be a purchase later down the road if I go for the MOD-3 instead of the PVS-14. From what I gather, most of you prefer to have mono or bino nvgs attached to your helmet with a weapon mounted laser like the ATPIAL-C and then if you have thermal... to run it on a weapon mount?

I dont think you'll have any issues. The MOD-3 has exposed contacts, so one of my long term questions is how will those weather 5-10 years down the road, or will the spring powered contacts wear down from friction, etc. I have multiple sets, so while it is a concern, it isn't that much of a concern. The design is solid, and exceeds anything else out there, right now, with it being so modular. Because it is so modular, it is also easier to replace anything that breaks/fails.

Considering I've owned a PVS14 for 3 days and haven't had much play time with it, I'll add my thoughts. 1) I didn't think a gen3 PVS14 had autofocus, but I didn't realize the focal point was a good ways out. 2) I didn't know they were so small! Not that I wish they were bigger, just didn't realize they're rather tiny. 3) I'm rather glad that I got one with manual gain. In a dynamic lighting environment I don't think I'd want a machine to control the brightness of the picture. 4) I guess I thought the overall clarity would be a little better, but then again I've only looked through a gen 2 PVS7 before and that was for about 30 seconds. 5) Holy shit, there are a lot of IR light sources in my house! All in all, I'm happy with my PVS14, but I had instant buyers remorse because I hadn't educated myself enough. Now that I know that unit is doing exactly what it's supposed to I'm happy with it. *For the record it's a gen 3 ITT Pinnacle tube.


 

I would be interested to see your follow up to TNVC's advice on tuning your PVS-14 visually. I am a soon to be buyer and from what I have read you are the first not blown away by Gen3 more or less the ITT Pinnacle tube which I have read is amazing although the L3 tubes have also been noted as such.

Thanks for this post.  I've had my pvs-14 about two weeks and similar first impressions.

I just typed up a long response and now it's gone I'll double check the focus as TNVC recommended and give an AAR.

If your image is blurry, my guess is that your front focal lock ring got tightened by the builder too far forward.  You'll need a really tiny ass Allen key to loosen it up, then you can back if off and that will give you more room to get the thing in focus.

This happened to one of mine.  IIRC, it's a .35mm allen wrench.  Someone that actually knows will be along shortly.  I forget, but the allen wrench for either my Crimson Trace IR laser or my Laser Max UNI works.

Close....the proper allen wrench size is 0.035".

If I use a .035 Allen wrench to loosen the screw, is the focal lock ring threaded?  Or does the ring just slide on the outer tube?  I need just a little more movement in my focus ring to get a clear infinity focus.  Any risks of DIY, or should I send it back to TNVC (manufacturer).

TIA!

I ordered like I knew what I was doing (I had no idea what a 'shroud' was.)  I should have taken advantage of the pre-sales customer support that was available, and not been so afraid to sound like an idiot.



I ended up with a number of parts that 'worked' but did not meet my expectations of what I 'wanted.'  I ended up spending quite a bit more money to get the 'right' parts.  It's money I would have spent anyway, so what I really lost was time.

Threaded.  If you bought from TNVC, it will most likely be greased and be relatively easy to spin.  I've had one assembled by someone else that I thought I was going to break by turning.  Didn't have the 50 dollar spanner wrench for it, so I improvised.   It wasn't pretty, but it worked.

I think there are two potential spots for the allen screws.  Make sure you confirmed you loosened ALL of them in the event they put in two.  All of mine had one, but there are a few threaded holes on that lock ring so again, just check them all to be sure.

My first PVS14 was from optics planet (it ended up going back........) and they shipped it out with the lock ring too far forward to get a good infinity focus.  Of course when you're new, you DON'T KNOW THIS.

I thought something was wrong with my PVS14 and wondered why it looked so shitty, not realizing that ring was adjustable.  Of course that .035" allen wrench isn't standard in most kits, so tracking one down was a bit of a pain too.

Once I got that set properly and gave myself more room for adjustment, I was amazed at the clarity these things can have.